Put Pods on an 82 KZ440 now the throttle sticks.

B

bshade

New Member
So heres the story try to be quick and short. I found this site wile building a friends bike for her. When I figured out that there was no air cleaner i went looking for one, it was not that easy apparently everyone who had these bikes like to throw them away for some reason. Since i could not find one I decided to go pods as it would be the next step in the Cafe project anyway. For the time being for the air flow issue I actually just used masking tape on the inner filter and put the outer filter on top so you cant see it, the air only comes through the end of the filter for now. Took the bike out for a short ride and it ran so good. Faster and much better throttle response. So I wanted to ride the bike over to her place and drop it off for her to ride for the next few weeks or so. Its about a 50 minuet ride. about 20 minutes into it the throttle stuck for me. I revved it up and it came unstuck. then it got progressively worse to where i was having to always rev it up to unstuck the throttle. So I rode it back to my shop.

I can see that it is not the throttle cable or the cam that the throttle turns, they both go back each time very nicely. My theory is that the the CV cylinders are sticking. Perhaps this is because I do no have the vent line from the valve cover going into the pods. This was thoughts crossing my mind as I limped it home.

Am I on the right track here or am i missing something much more critical. I don't need an argument that I should not have used pods, they are the look she is going for and the stock box was not coming easy I saw only one for sale and it went for three times the cost of the Pods did.

Thanks in advance for any help you may provide.

Brad
 
The throttle does not move the slides on CV carbs.
They have butterflies like an automotive carb.
The vent on the rocker box should have no affect on the carbs.


.
 
Have you read this thread? http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=45863.msg504034#msg504034
It may help with your throttle issues. Good luck!
 
your problem may not have anything to do with pods or carbs
check the timing advancer unit........the advance weights can get a little rusty and stick open.
right side of the motor, small cover
 
and with regards to the pods
be sure to check if there is an inner lip on the pod, if there is just make sure it isn't blocking the atmospheric ports on the mouth of the carb. you may have to remove some of the rubber with cheapo pods or get K&N's with no lip
 
You also have one of the most finicky motorcycles for pods/jetting on Earth. :( I've owned 3 of these bad boys. Well, 1 KZ400 and 2 KZ440's. When they run well, boy do they get up and go! When the airbox is messed with...ugh. But to be honest, it sounds like you've done a good job at it, since the original box lets in very little air, and your pods are only using the ends. Good job!

Like Kamn said though, check your advancer unit (behind the points) the springs may be crusty and sticking out. (OH and did you set the points or just run it because it ran when you got it?) And make sure the ports are clear from the pods. There's a sticky somewhere about "cheap pod filters" search that on here and you can see what he's referring to. EDIT: here it is. http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=45863.0

Secondly, check that all vacuum ports are still plugged where they should be, and that nothing was "falling off" or loosening up during your ride, like a vacuum cap or hose to your petcock. Another thing to check is that the gas flow is good, if the gas cap has a plugged vent (can't tell by looking at it) then your tank will not flow properly and the bowls won't fill up fast enough. Usually you can stop when the issue happens, and open the fuel tank filler, if there's a "whooshing" sound going IN to the tank, that's your most likely culprit. To add tot he fuel flow issue, make sure your floats are set right!! :)
 
Tune-A-Fish said:
Vacuum?
Click to expand...

EDIT: added better picture showing vacuum ports.

Yes? For synchronizing. See attached crappy old cell pic from one of my old ones.

You did sync the carbs correct OP?
 

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MotorbikeBruno said:
EDIT: added better picture showing vacuum ports.

Yes? For synchronizing. See attached crappy old cell pic from one of my old ones.

You did sync the carbs correct OP?
Click to expand...

He's running pods and they won't allow the carbs to build enough vacuum :o
 
Tune-A-Fish said:
He's running pods and they won't allow the carbs to build enough vacuum :o
Click to expand...

Tuna, I love ya man, but you must have not synced a set of carbs with pods before? The port is in the "front" of the carb throat facing the head and it does in fact get enough vacuum. I have no doubt about your motorcycle abilities as you reply to many posts here with great information, but I'm confused with your thought on this one. It's the only way to sync the carbs my friend, and it works beautifully :)

I just wanted the OP to check to make sure they are sealed correctly or he'll have a nasty air leak that can cause higher revving symptoms. If he masked it by using a lower idle, or set the idle speed before the bike was fully warmed up, this can show it's head. Or if one fell off during the test ride.
 
Was addressing the sticky throttle, but I'm glad someone loves me.

I have used a manometer one time on 237ish carbs before. I wasn't questioning your post, merely asking if vacuum could be an issue with the pods or really just tossing in a word for thought, hens no quote to your post.

You do realize having an even vacuum across a bank of carbs does not necessitate a tuned motorcycle engine yes?
 
My apologies, I took it the wrong way. Stupid computer. And yes of course, which is why I had said I'm not trying to question your expertise, you really know your ish and why I said I'm confused at your question. It was my attempt at treading lightly and I did poorly. My bad. Anyhow, the only intent was to make sure those weren't cracked and causing the issue. A lot of bikes come through here with vacuum caps that have cracked and failed causing the high idle or running lean condition. Again, my bad, wasn't meant to be rude but re-reading it tells me that it was. Sorry bro.
 
There is a reason that the stock box went for 3 times what you paid for pods ;D ;D ;D ;D

There could be a number of causes for what you are describing. It does sound as though the slides may be hanging up for one reason or another.

I doubt the issue is due to a lean condition, as the bike would likely just die instead. I also doubt it is sync related, because a balanced set of carbs will generally show the highest attainable idle at any given idle adjustment position. In other words, if you have a high smooth idle, your carbs are fairly balanced, you just need to reduce the idle setting.(i hope that makes sense.) Air leaks between the carbs and engine are a possibility.

Did you remember to install the springs on top of the slides? I have left them out before. If the problem is ONLY a hanging idle, you could certainly try some stiffer springs or preload washers. This may however affect driveability negatively or even positively in other ways. Spring pressure is often overlooked.

Another often overlooked option is to make an airbox. It can be rather fun and educational.

Super rich float height MIGHT contribute to the issue. I might just be making all of this up to sound smart though.
 
Just for fun, lets get some red solo cups and cut the bottoms off to use for covering a little over half of your pods... just start the bike and slide em on they should stay for this test, then see if the throttle idles down like it should... cant hurt to try.

Dohc made a good point about springs also, they are super thin and with my eyes disappear on the bench, I have a bunch if you need some.
 
Thanks for all the info and quick reply's, I have a few things to check now. As for the springs on the carbs I did not actually take the carbs apart i simply moved them out of the way with the cable and everything still connected. I did not balance them since the bike ran very well other than the dogging issue for having to much air with no air box. The cup method would probably work very well to find the sweet spot of how much of the air filter I need to cover but I already have covered the sides of the filterers so air only comes in the back. The problem did not start until 20 minuets or more into my ride. I did nothing with the timing or points either so I will look into that. The slides sticking was my first thought as if they stick up i am sure the bike will stay at a higher RPM i just was not sure if they would be sticking now since the valve cover breather is not putting the little bit of oil residue into the air intake stream. What have other guys done with the valve cover breather? I also need to check as I did not know about the small air holes on the end of the carbs the may be covered by the lip of the pods so that is another one i will look at closely.

Thanks again for all your help and getting me pointed in the right direction.

Brad
 
Ok finely got to work on the bike today, first start up the problem was gone so i got it to warm up good then took it out for a spin. It started withing the first mile of riding so I took it back to the shop and let it run and was able to make it high idle and i pulled the filters off and looked in the carbs at it was running and could see the the butterflies where closed as well as the CV barrels. also the little ports on the carb inlets are not blocked by the filters i got the nice UNI filters that have the slight angle to them. I pulled the cover off the side for the timing advance unit and discovered that its not points but a magnetic pickup so that was a nice find. I shut the bike off and watched the weights fall back in place once it stopped spinning. So I cleaned them up with brake clean and made them mover real easy ad then a little oil to keep them lubed up.

I took it for a short ride with no problems so tomorrow I am going to do the same things, get her nice and hot and take it for a burn and see what happens. I am really hoping that is all it was.

Thanks again for all the help guys, it really nice to have so many people who know what their talking about and can actually help. My years on car forums have taught me one major thing, lots of people like to answer you even when they don't have a clue. Not the case here, you all where a big help.

Brad
 
bshade said:
Ok finely got to work on the bike today, first start up the problem was gone so i got it to warm up good then took it out for a spin. It started withing the first mile of riding so I took it back to the shop and let it run and was able to make it high idle and i pulled the filters off and looked in the carbs at it was running and could see the the butterflies where closed as well as the CV barrels. also the little ports on the carb inlets are not blocked by the filters i got the nice UNI filters that have the slight angle to them. I pulled the cover off the side for the timing advance unit and discovered that its not points but a magnetic pickup so that was a nice find. I shut the bike off and watched the weights fall back in place once it stopped spinning. So I cleaned them up with brake clean and made them mover real easy ad then a little oil to keep them lubed up.

I took it for a short ride with no problems so tomorrow I am going to do the same things, get her nice and hot and take it for a burn and see what happens. I am really hoping that is all it was.

Thanks again for all the help guys, it really nice to have so many people who know what their talking about and can actually help. My years on car forums have taught me one major thing, lots of people like to answer you even when they don't have a clue. Not the case here, you all where a big help.

Brad
Click to expand...

Glad to hear it! Make sure the gas tank cap vent is unclogged to, or she won't suck fuel well after a mile or two :)
 
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