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Re: The Amalgam: Cb450 frame, cbr500r motor. What could go wrong???
I prefer the 350F tank but it looks "wrong" somehow. Looking at it again and trying to work out what about it isn't right and I think it's because that tank is shorter and the rear end is in front of/at the rear frame rail. That draws the eye to the vertyicality of motor/frame/tank and makes it look tall and short.
Do you have a longer lower tank to test on it? It may be enough to change the visuals so that a viewer sees the table top (tank/seat bottom line). Just a thought
Re: The Amalgam: Cb450 frame, cbr500r motor. What could go wrong???
teazer said:
I prefer the 350F tank but it looks "wrong" somehow. Looking at it again and trying to work out what about it isn't right and I think it's because that tank is shorter and the rear end is in front of/at the rear frame rail. That draws the eye to the vertyicality of motor/frame/tank and makes it look tall and short.
Do you have a longer lower tank to test on it? It may be enough to change the visuals so that a viewer sees the table top (tank/seat bottom line). Just a thought
Teaser I need to take a different angle for you, it actually ends right at that frame rail in a very good angle, that was part of what I like about it.
I also think the round take doesnt work with that motor. Unfortunately i do not have a long low tank, and even if i did, i dont think itd work with the huge fuel pump that has to go in it
Re: The Amalgam: Cb450 frame, cbr500r motor. What could go wrong???
I do like the tank/frame rail juxtaposition too.
I realize that the issue is less the tank and more the motor. Visually that is. It's hard to tell from a couple of pictures, but the sprocket looks too low and the motor fits to "well" between the two upright frame rails. Perhaps if the motor were raised to get crank at wheel axle height and rear sprocket at or slightly above the swingarm spindle, it would work better and may look better.
In fact without that front down tube and with the motor raised and rotated forwards, it might work. It's all aesthetics and what looks right to you.
Re: The Amalgam: Cb450 frame, cbr500r motor. What could go wrong???
teazer said:
I do like the tank/frame rail juxtaposition too.
I realize that the issue is less the tank and more the motor. Visually that is. It's hard to tell from a couple of pictures, but the sprocket looks too low and the motor fits to "well" between the two upright frame rails. Perhaps if the motor were raised to get crank at wheel axle height and rear sprocket at or slightly above the swingarm spindle, it would work better and may look better.
In fact without that front down tube and with the motor raised and rotated forwards, it might work. It's all aesthetics and what looks right to you.
You essentially nailed it. The downtube is going to be cut out and replaced with a dual downtube, where the motor will rotate forward a bit. The motor is a tad low, but it's required otherwise there is a height issue off the backbone. There will have to be some trickery for the sprocket, but nothing that hasn't been done before.
Actually as I look at it, if the one mound I have it in is raised even an inch, which can be done, the whole thing works better. Guess it'll be a bit more metal work.
Re: The Amalgam: Cb450 frame, cbr500r motor. What could go wrong???
Started playing with the frame again. I think I have 2 of the motor mounts completely figured out. Also, this is going to be my solution to the chain hitting the pivot.
Re: The Amalgam: Cb450 frame, cbr500r motor. What could go wrong???
Made some fair progress today. There was a lot of slop in the rear motor mount since it was made for a 12mm diameter bolt and i am using 3/8 so it fits the mount on the cases. My solution was to cap both ends of each mount with 1/8 steel welded on and drill new holes. This should make it easier to tighten the motor in place nice and straight to tackle the new downtubes without any play. Took about 2 hours and seems to have done the trick. If i had access to a lathe i would have sleeved the mounts all the way through but i wasnt gonna drop the coin for the few things it would help me with at the moment. Down and dirty did the trick.
I also was able to get the factory header bolted on once i got the motor at the correct angle. As a happy accident the factory 500 exhaust shield covers up the right side motor mount where I hacked the frame. I will still clean it up a lot, but its nice to know i dont have to go insane on it.
Re: The Amalgam: Cb450 frame, cbr500r motor. What could go wrong???
So with the one motor mount aligned, im now playing with the chain to make sure the counter sprocket is parallel to the rear sprocket. I need to turn down the counter sprocket, and space the rear sprocket to get them to align correctly, but its looking good. If need be i can bring the motor over more to the right, which i think a half inch my be a good idea.
Re: The Amalgam: Cb450 frame, cbr500r motor. What could go wrong???
Well, oddly enough a half inch was exactly what I needed. Took 1/4 out of the counter sprocket, and 1/4 out of the right mount. She's about as dead on as I can get it. Anyone here want to make me a custom 44t rear sprocket for a 520 chain?
Now that that's done, I will start the downtube with a nice wishbone design I came up with, should be plenty strong, and not look like ass, always a good thing.
Sprocket has been solved, nick at moto madness is hooking me up with a 41 and 44t so I have options. I'm trying to narrow down on rims/tires, and i'm having an issue with the diameter as it relates to trail. I know I should be keeping to factory rake and trail, meaning a 110 80 17 and 130 70 17 out back. I'd really like to run a 90 90 18 up front instead. It would mean .38 more trail, which I have a hard time as seeing as make or break. I know I could grab a cognito triple and get the 60mm offset to fix it, but I really want to keep the suzuki triple. I like the idea of the 90 90 18 and 100 90 18 out back, likely because it's the combination I usually use, and I like the riding on rails appearance rather than the thick ass rubber today's bikes use. I also haven't seen a thin tire up front with a front end conversion which I think will looking interesting.
Someone who knows more than me please chime in, but the way I see it, 10% additional trail with a bike that'll be at least 80lbs lighter than stock should handle fine, and pick up more straight line stability.
Re: The Amalgam: Cb450 frame, cbr500r motor. What could go wrong???
bitchen project man
i think the best solution would have been rotating the engine forward to raise the c/s sprocket
but an elegantly simple solution is to run a intermediate pair of sp-rockets in close proximity to the pivot
many have done this with the sprockets coaxial to the pivot but it is a more difficult fabrication deal
but a dual pair just in front of the pivot can be done with a simple bracket....
if the engine has a balancer im sure it does you can depend on it as a stressed member
if used as a stressed member the attachment points need to be more stout than most simple single plane motor plates
and the bolts close fitting like reamed out case and mounts to make an almost precision dowel like fit
ideally a stout bracket to the head and a stronger backbone as well would be ultimate
Re: The Amalgam: Cb450 frame, cbr500r motor. What could go wrong???
xb33bsa said:
bitchen project man
i think the best solution would have been rotating the engine forward to raise the c/s sprocket
but an elegantly simple solution is to run a intermediate pair of sp-rockets in close proximity to the pivot
many have done this with the sprockets coaxial to the pivot but it is a more difficult fabrication deal
but a dual pair just in front of the pivot can be done with a simple bracket....
if the engine has a balancer im sure it does you can depend on it as a stressed member
if used as a stressed member the attachment points need to be more stout than most simple single plane motor plates
and the bolts close fitting like reamed out case and mounts to make an almost precision dowel like fit
ideally a stout bracket to the head and a stronger backbone as well would be ultimate
Thanks xb! Actually rotating the motor forward lowered the sprocket, so I figured I would try to keep to the factory positioning for the 500 motor @ 20°, makes the exhaust easier to run as well. The bitch of it is I'm going to run a 44t rear sprocket over the factory 35t, preserves the correct drive ratio for the motor. With that large sprocket it's just going to barely hit! My design is something similar to the sohc 750 downtubes, where there will be a rod going between the downtubes, but it will also attach to where the original single downtube was. I will be welding in plate also.
Thanks to a little guidance from ncologerojr, where i extended the factory down tubes off a 500r frame its been slugged and rosette welded, she won't be going anywhere. No plates attaching the motor, all the attachment points will be fitted directly to the frame, and yes all holes have been "reduced" so there is next to no play and a more secure fit. At least it has for the front and bottom rear mount. I still have no idea how I am making the case mount in the top rear, but I haven't given it much thought either.
Re: The Amalgam: Cb450 frame, cbr500r motor. What could go wrong???
i dont see a huge issue with the rear mount
is that the only rear mount or is one down below
\if it isjust a width issue at that mount them make cardboard temp-lates of the 3 holes
lea a good 1/2'' margin from edges of holes to corner radius of the plate
use standoffs on the plates with equal or greater diameter than the ones welded into frame
they can be welded to the platesd then sm,all thinner sections of sheet can be added to mostly box the rear upper bolt in mount
i would use 3/16 steel for the 2 plates and 12 gauge for any boxing elements with some large well placed lightening holes once finished
as far as the front downtube you are far better off not having nothing there
wishbone it at the top and double cradle down and back under engine
1'' 16gauge bookue
Re: The Amalgam: Cb450 frame, cbr500r motor. What could go wrong???
at this time you need to verify the wheels are still inline vertically and keep watch of that
you will also want to derake the frame a bit until trail is acceptable
but first you need to set the bike up with the length of shocks and wheels and tires you gonnas use
Re: The Amalgam: Cb450 frame, cbr500r motor. What could go wrong???
hey you are doing excellent just dont get too carried away using
"plate"' it makes me think of 1/4 inch and thicker no need for any of that
its not a locamotive or D10- CAT
plan ahead a bit
you want to be able to get the goddam engine in and out of the frame with relative ease as well without a cutting torch :-\ :-\,you dont need to ask me how i discoverd that :-[ :-[
if all engine mounts are solid it usually ain't hap nin most all frames have one or more removable elements for major engine service
pictures of the backbone please ,ive torn down a few but memory is shot
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