Honda CB550 four.. single carb.
- Thread starter Hurco550
- Start date
xb33bsa said:
Yeah thats kinda what i picked up by the last few comments before yours. Still outta curiosity I was interested in seeing the guys single carb setup. Ill work with the stock carbs and get em tuned. I now understand that it may not be the best to run a single carb, and for that reason I will not use it. I can still be interested in how someone else setup their bike.
mydlyfkryzis
当有疑问时踢你的敌人在生殖器上，你可以道歉后
They are also looking at removing 3 cylinders to simplify everything. Oh, never mind, Suzuki already did that....One Carb, One cylinder, One sparkplug.... Much easier.....
AlphaDogChoppers
Science is true whether you believe in it or not.
The thing about a single carburetor vs 4 carburetors is that with the 4 carbs, the span of time between intake pulses brings flow through the carb to a halt between pulses until you get to fairly high RPM. With a single carb, there is pretty much a continuous stream of intake pulses at a much lower RPM. Powerband comes on MUCH sooner. The fuel/air charge coming into the manifold through the carb has momentum, and when the next intake valve opens, the charge is already there, and may even have a little bit of positive pressure to blast into the combustion chamber just as the piston is starting to draw in more charge. At the end of the intake stroke, that cylinder has set the charge in motion for the next cylinder. Each cylinder enhances the flow for the next cylinder after it.
Much like the exhaust pressure pulses in a 4-into-1 exhaust makes each cylinder benefit from the scavenging energy of the other cylinders, a 1-into-4 intake could do a remarkable job of ramming more fuel/air into the cylinders if designed properly.
I am really looking forward to what Murray come up with.
Much like the exhaust pressure pulses in a 4-into-1 exhaust makes each cylinder benefit from the scavenging energy of the other cylinders, a 1-into-4 intake could do a remarkable job of ramming more fuel/air into the cylinders if designed properly.
I am really looking forward to what Murray come up with.
jamesbekman
New Member
If you ask me the way to go would be doing an upgraded alternator to provide the proper voltage at idle to run FI. Then you can decide if throttle body injection or direct injection is what you want.
Sonreir said:
hmmm Fuel Injection... fancy. I haven't even thought about that one... Think you can make me up a harness for that Sonreir? IDK anymore about the single carb though, I haven't found anyone that has gotten that perfect intake design for running one. Have you seen anyone run fuel injection on an old Honda four. Not that I am going to, I am just curious now..
if a single carb was better for more hp then you would have seen it used in racingAlphaDogChoppers said:
if it was better and more efficient superbikes 600's supersports etc, would have a single throttle body instead of one per port
just changing to a single carb and manifold does not and cannot RAM MORE AIR into a cylinder to the contrary it will loose some power up top
ideally a cam would need to be ground to bring the power in sooner
HOWEVER for an old bike and somebody that has 3 sets of junk carbs i think it is a great idea to have the option of a bolt on deal that runs good even at a loss of power most of these guys just want a smooth running motor and murray can deliver that
the part you say about positive pressure in a single carb manifold is the flawed part a single carb manifold almost always is working with VACUM innit not positive pressure above atomsfear
at wot things can get towards good ram charge effect,.racing v8 car manifolds have used ram effect,cross ram was one of them, but they run like shit at lower rpm,smaller throttle openings and that is where a rider will be cruising around
Yes, I can make a harness for fuel injection.
And no, I haven't seen it on a four, but I have seen it on twins. I would expect you'd be able to make it work for a four just by using two systems and treating the four cylinders as a pair of twins. It won't be perfect, like sequential multiport, but I'd bet you could get it running better than carbs with a bit of work.
The big hurdle is the alternator. You need a lot of wattage to run a fuel pump and injectors. Conversion to an electronic ignition system will be mandatory so that a proper signal can be sent to the ECU.
Other issues would be finding some throttle bodies that could be adapted to fit. The ones from an EX650 were where I started. They have an integrated TPS and injectors and they can usually be found on eBay for under $60 a set. You'll need to work out something for the cable linkage, though. Then there's the software...
If money isn't too much of an issue to you, take a look at these bad boys:
http://www.ecotrons.com/products/kawasaki_ninja_250cc_fuel_injection_kit/
And no, I haven't seen it on a four, but I have seen it on twins. I would expect you'd be able to make it work for a four just by using two systems and treating the four cylinders as a pair of twins. It won't be perfect, like sequential multiport, but I'd bet you could get it running better than carbs with a bit of work.
The big hurdle is the alternator. You need a lot of wattage to run a fuel pump and injectors. Conversion to an electronic ignition system will be mandatory so that a proper signal can be sent to the ECU.
Other issues would be finding some throttle bodies that could be adapted to fit. The ones from an EX650 were where I started. They have an integrated TPS and injectors and they can usually be found on eBay for under $60 a set. You'll need to work out something for the cable linkage, though. Then there's the software...
If money isn't too much of an issue to you, take a look at these bad boys:
http://www.ecotrons.com/products/kawasaki_ninja_250cc_fuel_injection_kit/
Tune-A-Fish
BOTM LOSER Proudly Deplorable
4 Into 1 intake with a Harley FI throttle body, ecu and rheostat type throttle. problem solved.
Now just need Sparky to figure out how to wire and power the thing, where to put corrected ox and crank (epoxy magnet to stator?) sensors and dial in the gui and software flash.
RD
Now just need Sparky to figure out how to wire and power the thing, where to put corrected ox and crank (epoxy magnet to stator?) sensors and dial in the gui and software flash.
RD
jamesbekman
New Member
I know a lot of people scratch their heads when thinking about FI, its not that crazy to figure out and its easy to setup on a car and if systems like megasquirt are able to work on a bike it seems like one of us needs to figure this stuff out. The main reason being is because the damn ethanol in all our gas is fouling up our jets all the time...
Tune-A-Fish
BOTM LOSER Proudly Deplorable
the cam is designed for individual tuned length intake and the harmonics gained from that, it is all lost with a single manifold so no you aren't solving any problems just creating themTune-A-Fish said:4 Into 1 intake with a Harley FI throttle body, ecu and rheostat type throttle. problem solved.
Now just need Sparky to figure out how to wire and power the thing, where to put corrected ox and crank (epoxy magnet to stator?) sensors and dial in the gui and software flash.
RD
Tune-A-Fish
BOTM LOSER Proudly Deplorable
xb33bsa said:
Oh I never said I had a problem... I just hope to get a bunch of cheap carb banks when this goes off like bottle rockets!!! 8) 8) 8)
Of course it is possible to run any numbers of cylinders through one control device. Cars did that for years. In the old days it was a single barrel carb feeding 4, 6 or 8 cylinders and then multi barrel and early EFI on many motors was essentially a 2 barrel carb with efi instead of jets. Check out any old Vortex GM motor. Our old Safari was like that.
Wiring is dead simple too, even allowing for all the extra sensors etc. The two hard parts with all that are the control system and gas flow.
Using a plenum chamber - think stock air box and stock intake system but with straight tubes where the carbs used to be and then add a large enough throttle body as the intake to the air box (conceptually), it's not hard to wee how it would work. But packaging is always the critical issue on a bike and the loss of performance.
How much performance loss compared to stock carbs depends on the design and how good or bad the stock set up was. If stock was restrictive, it might be possible to get more hp than stock - that would be a blast now wouldn't it?
EFI controllers are not hard to find. Start with a Megasquirt and go simple. M/S maps are easy to manipulate to get it running reasonably well. Getting it perfect might take a little longer though.
Taking that same idea and working backwards, imagine straight inlets in place of stock carbs, ending in velocity stacks in an air box and a carb on the other side of that and there's no reason it couldn't be made to work. May have to go with shorter than ideal inlet tract lengths to get it all in, but that would probably not be a job stopper.
Can't wait to see what someone comes up with
Wiring is dead simple too, even allowing for all the extra sensors etc. The two hard parts with all that are the control system and gas flow.
Using a plenum chamber - think stock air box and stock intake system but with straight tubes where the carbs used to be and then add a large enough throttle body as the intake to the air box (conceptually), it's not hard to wee how it would work. But packaging is always the critical issue on a bike and the loss of performance.
How much performance loss compared to stock carbs depends on the design and how good or bad the stock set up was. If stock was restrictive, it might be possible to get more hp than stock - that would be a blast now wouldn't it?
EFI controllers are not hard to find. Start with a Megasquirt and go simple. M/S maps are easy to manipulate to get it running reasonably well. Getting it perfect might take a little longer though.
Taking that same idea and working backwards, imagine straight inlets in place of stock carbs, ending in velocity stacks in an air box and a carb on the other side of that and there's no reason it couldn't be made to work. May have to go with shorter than ideal inlet tract lengths to get it all in, but that would probably not be a job stopper.
Can't wait to see what someone comes up with
