136 mph 200cc tiger cub

[Texasstar]

Does anybody have a picture of this bike?

"In 1956, Wilson's nitro-fueled 650cc Thunderbird engine-powered fellow Texan Johnny Allen to a 214.40 mph world absolute speed record for motorcycle on the Bonneville Salt Flats. This feat inspired Triumph to name their 1959 model the Bonneville. Wilson’s expertise and assistance also helped U.S. racing stars Gary Nixon, Buddy Elmore, Rusty Bradley, Jess Thomas, Jon Minonno, and Mike Kidd, among others.
?
After Allen set the iconic 1956 world record with the Thunderbird engine, Wilson built up a 200cc Tiger Cub single using the same streamliner chassis and shell with similar tuning. In this configuration the machine ran 136 mph at the Salt Flats. In 1958 Jack then installed a very trick 500cc Triumph twin and with 18-year-old Jess Thomas (another Texan) at the controls, the machine clocked an average of 212.28 mph-a new world record for unblown, streamlined 500cc motorcycles running on nitro. That record stood for 50 years."

 

[NortonGuy]

"This bike" is in the national motorcycle museum in London last I knew. But it has the 650 engine in it, don't know what happened to the Cub mill.

The bike was destroyed when this museum burned to the ground, it was wood(brilliant huh?). Big D cycle rebuilt it and shipped it back to the museum by now I am pretty sure.

It is such a famous bike that I don't know how you could not find photos of it if you tried out this new-fangled thing I heard of called "google". Good luck......

 

[Texasstar]

"This bike" is in the national motorcycle museum in London last I knew. But it has the 650 engine in it, don't know what happened to the Cub mill.

The bike was destroyed when this museum burned to the ground, it was wood(brilliant huh?). Big D cycle rebuilt it and shipped it back to the museum by now I am pretty sure.

It is such a famous bike that I don't know how you could not find photos of it if you tried out this new-fangled thing I heard of called "google". Good luck......

I have pictures of the Texas Ceegar. My wife's great uncle is Pete Dalio. We are looking for pictures of the Tiger Cub Run.
There is more knowledge about the history of motorcycles in the little pinkie of some of the DTT members than google could ever wish to have. That is why I asked

 

[Texasstar]

I would love to get a picture of the cub motor...

 

[Hoofhearted]

I didn't realize that they used the Ceegar for the cub record. Always thought it was another machine. I saw the ceegar in a local Triumph dealers here in the late 50s. The only other Cub streamliner I know of belonged to the Martin family. Can't remember the Dad's name but the boys are Dale and Lonny. Both are still active in the SCTA. Lonnie rode a 650 Triumph up to a few years ago. And Dale rode a Cub. This photo was taken in the mid 50s.

 

[Texasstar]

I didn't realize that they used the Ceegar for the cub record. Always thought it was another machine. I saw the ceegar in a local Triumph dealers here in the late 50s. The only other Cub streamliner I know of belonged to the Martin family. Can't remember the Dad's name but the boys are Dale and Lonny. Both are still active in the SCTA. Lonnie rode a 650 Triumph up to a few years ago. And Dale rode a Cub. This photo was taken in the mid 50s.

Wow Hoofhearted! We never knew that the Ceegar was used for other attempts until today when driving from Marne Iowa my wife found the article I quoted from! That is a great picture! My wife and I have been trying to find more pictures of Pete, Jack, and company. We met Randy Baxter today for the first time and he told us he was good friends with Jack. Keith of Big D has some pictures of Pete somewhere. We found a picture of Dalios old shop in Strokers in Dallas. There are many pictures of Jack Wilson but very few of Pete. I am trying to piece this history together for our family and my son. If we are gonna do the ton with our little cb it helps to know the history...especially when Jack did it in the 50's with a cub engine....amazing man. Picture is a 200cc cub from Baxters today. Looking forward to getting to know Randy better. THANK YOU for posting the picture!

 

[Texasstar]

The great irony is that we know Pete had contempt for Harleys but it was a Harley page we found Jack story....
http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/asp/museum/exhibits/heroesofharley/biopage1.asp?id=293

 

[Texasstar]

I didn't realize that they used the Ceegar for the cub record. Always thought it was another machine. I saw the ceegar in a local Triumph dealers here in the late 50s. The only other Cub streamliner I know of belonged to the Martin family. Can't remember the Dad's name but the boys are Dale and Lonny. Both are still active in the SCTA. Lonnie rode a 650 Triumph up to a few years ago. And Dale rode a Cub. This photo was taken in the mid 50s.

Hoofhearted I would like to see a side by side comparison of the picture you posted and the Texas Ceegar...I would assume the Ceegar is much longer...the ceegar must have had an amazing chassis design to hold 3 records in three different classes...

 

[Hoofhearted]

I would assume too, that the Ceegar would ave been a much longer machine than the Martin 'liner. I never saw the Martin 'liner. Only the photo. I've known Dale and Lonnie for years. Both are like me now. Old men. Next time I see them I'll have to as about the Cub 'liner. Zeglin and Moody were running a Cub up to a couple of years ago and are current record holders at Bonneville but in the 250 class. So I'll assume its been overbored slightly (or maybe a lot). Dale Martin ran his Cub in the partial streamlining class. I thought I had a photo but can't seem to find it.

This is the 'liner I remember seeing at the Triumph dealer when I was in my early teens. It also fired my imagination and the enthusiasm for LSR is still going strong today.

This is the Zeglin and Moody Cub at El Mirage a few years ago.

 

[Texasstar]

I would assume too, that the Ceegar would ave been a much longer machine than the Martin 'liner. I never saw the Martin 'liner. Only the photo. I've known Dale and Lonnie for years. Both are like me now. Old men. Next time I see them I'll have to as about the Cub 'liner. Zeglin and Moody were running a Cub up to a couple of years ago and are current record holders at Bonneville but in the 250 class. So I'll assume its been overbored slightly (or maybe a lot). Dale Martin ran his Cub in the partial streamlining class. I thought I had a photo but can't seem to find it.

This is the 'liner I remember seeing at the Triumph dealer when I was in my early teens. It also fired my imagination and the enthusiasm for LSR is still going strong today.

This is the Zeglin and Moody Cub at El Mirage a few years ago.

Bill I can't wait to show my son this! http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/album.php?albumid=768
He is 10 and we just finished our first build. He wants to do the BUB run when he turns 13. He is walking around with his new Triumph worlds fastest motorcycle T-Shirt...to "honor his uncle Pete Dalio"

This is why I love DTT you get to meet world record holders!

 

[Hoofhearted]

Thank you kindly. What I have is no "Texas Ceegar" but it does me (and my wallet) just fine. I'll bet your son can't wait for 13 to come around. The best of luck and I hope he gets as badly LSR infected as I did.

Short video to keep his enthusiasm up.

http://youtu.be/r5EBHbk3Ito

 

[Texasstar]

Thank you kindly. What I have is no "Texas Ceegar" but it does me (and my wallet) just fine. I'll bet your son can't wait for 13 to come around. The best of luck and I hope he gets as badly LSR infected as I did.

Short video to keep his enthusiasm up.

http://youtu.be/r5EBHbk3Ito

Hey it's texasstars son. Thank you for your your kind words bill. Some day we'll hit a record just like you. Right now were just trying to do the ton (100 mph). Again thank you.

 

[Hoofhearted]

Well Texasstar's son. Back away from the computer and get out to the garage. It will be time to hit the salt before you know it. Good luck with the ton. With today's modern liter bikes the ton is nothing. If you are building a Cub, the ton will be a major achievement. To tell the truth just getting to Bonneville is a major achievement. The world is full of people who dream about racing at Bonneville. 99.99% of these dreamers will do nothing about it. I have the feeling that you will not be one of them. I'll look forward to the day I see your name on the record list.

 

[jlew]

Wow Hoofhearted! We never knew that the Ceegar was used for other attempts until today when driving from Marne Iowa my wife found the article I quoted from!

Omg Marne Iowa. My neck of the woods sorta lol... Wow..someone actually knows of Marne ia..

 

[Texasstar]

Omg Marne Iowa. My neck of the woods sorta lol... Wow..someone actually knows of Marne ia..

Corn, corn, speed trap, corn, corn, speed trap, corn, corn, OMG the MOTORCYCLE Mecca of the Midwest in Marne Iowa! Baxters Cycle! Found out on our first pilgrimage to Marne that Randy was good friends with Jack Wilson who was sponsored by Pete Dalio to build Big D's in Dallas and who hired Jack as a tuner. Jack built the Texas Ceegar. Now Pete Dalio is my wife's great uncle. Jack then went on to sponsor an up and coming phenom rider named Rusty Bradley. Rusty Bradley died in a tragic crash in the Daytona 200 1971. Rusty's mom was my wife's Sunday school teacher deep in the heart Texas.

Marne. Iowa is the field of dreams for Triumph-BSA lovers. OMG is right!

http://youtu.be/lzDyH8njsoU

 

[jlew]

Hahah how did I know Baxters was gonna be mentioned. Oh yeah that's right it's the only friggin thing in Marne.. Besides corn and speed traps...and pigs and corn, and corn.

 

[crazypj]

Pretty good for a 199cc push-rod motor making about 17bhp even when 'super tuned' ;D
I'll bet the 'technical details' would be pretty interesting

 

[Texasstar]

Pretty good for a 199cc push-rod motor making about 17bhp even when 'super tuned' ;D
I'll bet the 'technical details' would be pretty interesting

+^!!!!!!! How in the heck did Jack do it and 3 LSR's using the same chassis!!!! I am on the hunt for some answers. Going to go see Keith @ Big D today and see if he will give up the ghost. He has intimate knowledge of that chassis after the rebuild. There is a method to my madness. You have to understand history to move forward. Zeke and I keep running into more clues to the scene of the crime every where we go. Jack apparently knew how to make a two valve head flow like a 4 valve...before David Vizard did...

 

[Hoofhearted]

I don't know squat about Cubs but there was Bultaco/Suzuki dealer next to where I worked. One of the mechanics flattracked a Cub. On race nights he would take it for a blast up the street and back. "Just to make sure its workin' OK". I remember asing him how could a Cub be so fast. His reply was, needle roller everything, good ports and light oil. All makes sense if you know what you're doing, And I guess that is the real secret.

Using the same chassis for several records is not that unusual. The Mcleish Bros. have a number of class records with their streamliner sidecar. They've used everything from a 50cc to a 750cc.

 

[crazypj]

One of the mechanics flattracked a Cub. On race nights he would take it for a blast up the street and back. "Just to make sure its workin' OK". I remember asing him how could a Cub be so fast. His reply was, needle roller everything, good ports and light oil. All makes sense if you know what you're doing, And I guess that is the real secret.

That sounds like a real smart guy, particularly when 'conventional wisdom' at the time (even at factory level) was different (I'm guessing mid~late 60's?)