136 mph 200cc tiger cub

[crazypj]

The 'filters' over stacks severely restrict airflow and are a total waste of time, either get oversize K&N style with mounting that will fit all the way over the end of bellmouth or leave them off.
I think McMaster Carr tells you how much open area there is on various mesh sizes, the mesh on most 'stacks' reduces flow by 50~60%
Sectioned head shows the intake is a pretty good shape, top of exhaust just before exit shows a 'good' lip though, I would chop it off
Don't touch the 'floor' of port, it's already too low and flat (the intake is also really too flat but not much you can do about it)
You don't need an expensive timing light, in fact a basic one with inductive pick up will work as well as anything, I paid about $20.00 at Harbor Freight Tools for mine and have never used the 'advance' function, just check it's on zero and use marks on rotor

 

[teazer]

I use a cheap "Non-advancing" timing light from Sears, but race bikes I set statically - we don't use an advancer. Yes that number is fully advanced as you correctly ascertained. Every engine is different and you need to try adjust timing until it provides the best result for your particular motor.

Lots of things change the flame propagation rate including mixture, compression ratio, fuel flame speed and combustion chamber shape. Hemi heads with tall piston crowns end up with a combustion chamber shaped like the skin of half an orange. The flame has a long way to go and it take time to get there.

In general, the less advance a motor needs the more efficient is the combustion chamber. So try different settings on the dyno and see what it likes and then write that down in your log book.

The damage in that head is mechanical rather than detonation I think. It looks like a valve head came off and beat the thing to death. We had that problem at Road America a few years ago. Engine was over revved chasing a bigger bike and one intake valve head came off.

That sectioned head is a worse casting than the one I had though the bandsaw. Typically the intake port has a slightly better floor and the exhaust is slightly more open at the top and has a much more raised floor. Check the heads you have with casting rubber to see what shape they are internally. I suspect that's because it was not sectioned down the centerline of each port. That one is sectioned straight across and what we can see there is not how the port is shaped along teh line of flow.

 

[Texasstar]

The 'filters' over stacks severely restrict airflow and are a total waste of time, either get oversize K&N style with mounting that will fit all the way over the end of bellmouth or leave them off.
I think McMaster Carr tells you how much open area there is on various mesh sizes, the mesh on most 'stacks' reduces flow by 50~60%
Sectioned head shows the intake is a pretty good shape, top of exhaust just before exit shows a 'good' lip though, I would chop it off
Don't touch the 'floor' of port, it's already too low and flat (the intake is also really too flat but not much you can do about it)
You don't need an expensive timing light, in fact a basic one with inductive pick up will work as well as anything, I paid about $20.00 at Harbor Freight Tools for mine and have never used the 'advance' function, just check it's on zero and use marks on rotor

PJ the only reason why we are running filters is because we live in the country and have chip and seal roads till we get out on the highway. You should see the stuff on the head after a ride. Zeke and I need to finish our hugger fender and that should keep some of the crap out. We installed a 17 tooth sprocket and now we are 72mph in 4th gear. We need to be 10,500 k rpm in fifth gear to do the ton with a 17/35 gearing which means we will probably need to be at a 12.5k redline???

Love Harbor Freight and the print your own 25% coupon. We bought an Actron 7529 for 77 bucks and it has an Rpm feature which helped since ours is on the blink again. As I told my son timing is everything and this timing light advance feature goes in tenths! We are gonna need it with the Dyna S. I am a little anal truth be told. . Gotta support my local shop they are good guys.

 

[domi_racer]

Does anybody have a picture of this bike? Yes, the first picture is of the Jack Wilson Tiger cub, and I have also included a picture of the 15 foot long Devil's Arrow/Texas Ceegar frame, and the Tiger Cub engine wasn't in the streamliner chassis, despite all the internet articles that say it was. The back of this Tiger Cub photo has in pencil Bob Stoker on record Tri Cub Jack Wilson Tuner, on bike in background Johnny Allen standing. The second photo is the frame for J.H. "Stormy" Mangham's unnamed streamliner later called the Devil's Arrow in 1955 then changed to the Texas Ceegar in 1956. This chassis was run with the world land speed record setting 650 Thunderbird engine and a 500 twin engine on nitro, but I can't see running this 15 foot long chassis with a Cub motor, and I have a photo of the Tiger Cub in a stock Triumph frame. The third photo is the unnamed Mangham streamliner from 1954, the first time Stormy Mangham, Jack Wilson, and Johnny Allen tried it out on the salt. They were running the Thunderbird engine in it, and the back of the photo says" 124 mph approximately (underlined) These kid's are from Texas-----J.H. "Stormy" Mangham (owner) Smithfield, Texas. They actually went 144 mph on their maiden voyage, but Richie Richards went a top speed of 153.67 and averaged 149.56 mph in a Triumph that didn't have streamlining. So they returned in 1955 and went 195.30 mph (new record) and then in 1956, 214.22, after NSU had beat their 1955 record. I know these are very old posts, but I always enjoy stirring the hornet's nest.

"In 1956, Wilson's nitro-fueled 650cc Thunderbird engine-powered fellow Texan Johnny Allen to a 214.40 mph world absolute speed record for motorcycle on the Bonneville Salt Flats. This feat inspired Triumph to name their 1959 model the Bonneville. Wilson’s expertise and assistance also helped U.S. racing stars Gary Nixon, Buddy Elmore, Rusty Bradley, Jess Thomas, Jon Minonno, and Mike Kidd, among others.
?
After Allen set the iconic 1956 world record with the Thunderbird engine, Wilson built up a 200cc Tiger Cub single using the same streamliner chassis and shell with similar tuning. In this configuration the machine ran 136 mph at the Salt Flats. In 1958 Jack then installed a very trick 500cc Triumph twin and with 18-year-old Jess Thomas (another Texan) at the controls, the machine clocked an average of 212.28 mph-a new world record for unblown, streamlined 500cc motorcycles running on nitro. That record stood for 50 years."

 

[Texasstar]

WOW! Those are fantastic! Can't wait to show Zeke these! This is a picture of our family tree. Do you happen to have a picture of Pete Dalio? FYI I use to fish off the Santa Monica pier as a kid...where that photographer was from lol.

 

[Texasstar]

these guys are from Texas!!!!!


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[domi_racer]

WOW! Those are fantastic! Can't wait to show Zeke these! This is a picture of our family tree. Do you happen to have a picture of Pete Dalio? FYI I use to fish off the Santa Monica pier as a kid...where that photographer was from lol.

So, you are related to Pete Dalio? I can't see enough of you family tree photo to see a last name. Is Pete in any of these photos? Russ Kelly wrote the attached Cycle magazine article, I Saw An American Break The Record. I have most of the Cycle magazines from 1950-54, but I had to find a crappy online scan that I printed and scanned again for the 1956 issue, and there are parts you won't be able to read. I don't have anything on the 1955 issue when it went 192.30. I have the 1954 issue attached, but they seem more fascinated with the parachute, and Richie Richardson's Thunderbird which was not streamlined set the record in the 40 cubic inch A (alcohol) class in 1954, so that wasn't a good outing for the unnamed Mangham streamliner on its maiden voyage. In 1955, they called it The Devil's Arrow, and had an arrow (with a rather large point) painted on the sides. Then when NSU came over again in the summer of 1956, NSU retook the record and became the first motorcycle to break the 200 mph barrier. Nobody told the Germans not to mess with Texas. They renamed it The Texas Ceegar, gave it the paint job with the stars (you can see the nose in the background of one of the chassis photos) and in 1956, Triumph became the world's fastest motorcycle, and they used that in all of their advertising. Triumph named their first dual carb production motorcycle Bonneville in 1959, and Triumph still makes a model today called the Bonneville, so that is a pretty long run. The Triumph Bonnevilles in the 1960s came with a decal on the gas tank top that had a Thunderbird logo on top with world speed record below the bird in type. All of these came about because of Jack Wilson, James Harold "Stormy" Mangham, and Johnny Allen working out of Pete Dalio's Triumph shop. Notice that these photos are the original 8 x 10" photos used in the 1954 and 1956 Cycle magazine articles. I have one posted on eBay right now, and will be selling all of them eventually. To look at my auctions, look up items by seller and the user name is the same as it is here domi_racer .

 

[domi_racer]

WOW! Those are fantastic! Can't wait to show Zeke these! This is a picture of our family tree. Do you happen to have a picture of Pete Dalio? FYI I use to fish off the Santa Monica pier as a kid...where that photographer was from lol.

Oops! Forgot the dual brake photo! Lol. Check out eBay seller domi_racer .

 

[Texasstar]

So, you are related to Pete Dalio? I can't see enough of you family tree photo to see a last name. Is Pete in any of these photos? Russ Kelly wrote the attached Cycle magazine article, I Saw An American Break The Record. I have most of the Cycle magazines from 1950-54, but I had to find a crappy online scan that I printed and scanned again for the 1956 issue, and there are parts you won't be able to read. I don't have anything on the 1955 issue when it went 192.30. I have the 1954 issue attached, but they seem more fascinated with the parachute, and Richie Richardson's Thunderbird which was not streamlined set the record in the 40 cubic inch A (alcohol) class in 1954, so that wasn't a good outing for the unnamed Mangham streamliner on its maiden voyage. In 1955, they called it The Devil's Arrow, and had an arrow (with a rather large point) painted on the sides. Then when NSU came over again in the summer of 1956, NSU retook the record and became the first motorcycle to break the 200 mph barrier. Nobody told the Germans not to mess with Texas. They renamed it The Texas Ceegar, gave it the paint job with the stars (you can see the nose in the background of one of the chassis photos) and in 1956, Triumph became the world's fastest motorcycle, and they used that in all of their advertising. Triumph named their first dual carb production motorcycle Bonneville in 1959, and Triumph still makes a model today called the Bonneville, so that is a pretty long run. The Triumph Bonnevilles in the 1960s came with a decal on the gas tank top that had a Thunderbird logo on top with world speed record below the bird in type. All of these came about because of Jack Wilson, James Harold "Stormy" Mangham, and Johnny Allen working out of Pete Dalio's Triumph shop. Notice that these photos are the original 8 x 10" photos used in the 1954 and 1956 Cycle magazine articles. I have one posted on eBay right now, and will be selling all of them eventually. To look at my auctions, look up items by seller and the user name is the same as it is here domi_racer .

Pete Dalio is my wife's great uncle. My son Zeke is blood related. Wow Zeke picked the NSU Sportmax for his current build. Great info! We will check out your eBay site. My mother in law would recognize Pete so we will check out the pictures!

 

[Texasstar]

We have no family pictures of Pete. We have found pictures of his Fort Worth shop in Strokers Dallas and at Keith's place Big D.


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[domi_racer]

I couldn't find any pictures of Pete Dalio online either. I hope your mother-in-law can identify him, if he's in any of these photos. The NSU that went over 200 mph was a 500cc overhead cam bevel drive twin cylinder, however, a SportMax with the giant alloy dustbin fairing is a seriously valuable (between $60,000 and $100,000) low production (25, I think) machine. Too bad I had already sold my SportMax at Bonneville photo to a German doctor.

 

[xb33bsa]

hey tex i highly recommend some blendzall gold label power booster to mix with yer gas
while it may increase power only very slightly it does have the added benefit of filling the air with the most wonderful smells
all the old racers will be certainally be impressed ! i guarantee that !!
warning it may be habit forming !!