1970 Honda CB450 K3 - Grey Ghost Build
- Thread starter manualofman
- Start date
manualofman
i always wind up with extra bolts leftover..
I haven't updated this build log in a few weeks because I was so pumped to nearly be complete, that I wanted to hold out more posts until a grand unveiling. I'll do another post on the battery issue I ran into and the new headlight bucket, but focus this mainly on the clutch issues I've been experiencing.
Something tells me this will all boil down to an assembly mistake on my part, like one of these things is on backwards or I'm not adjusting something correctly. However, the problems I've been seeing seem to be a common trend among all these Honda CB DOHC's, especially the 450, 500, and 550's.
In a nutshell, I replaced the clutch cable with a shortened version from Dime City Cycles, and now my clutch won't fully disengage when I pull my lever.
Over on Hondatwins.net, there is an excellent write-up on how to adjust your clutch properly. I've read this thread about 40 times, and have also scoured their forums for a solution to my problem. Because no matter how much I try to adjust it, I can't get it a smooth action out of the clutch.
To complicate things, the bike was running well and the clutch was performing just shy of optimally two weeks ago, while I test drove the bike around and around the neighborhood. When I say the clutch was sub-optimal, I mean that it would not always want to shift into a neutral, and sometimes when I was in first gear, the bike would stall. This to me, meant the clutch was not fully disengaging and putting some load onto the gears, and without throttle, would stall the bike.
I re-routed my clutch cable to remove any sharp bends and tried adjusting it. Somewhere in the past two weeks of adjustments, including swapping out the clutch return spring for a shorter one, something went wrong. At this point, I can't even get the clutch to do anything when the lever is pulled.
Luckily, motorcycles can still switch gears even without a clutch, so I'm able to limp around the driveway while I adjust stuff to see if I get it right.
Yesterday, I completely disassembled the sprocket cover again to ensure that the spring, ball bearing, and clutch lifter assembly were still functioning in proper order. Although I had to rig up my clutch lifter arm to hold the clutch cable end (using a zip tie and bending the two remaining teeth of the clutch cable retainer), it's all still there.
Here's what it looks like, all freshly greased and recently sworn at:
I think what's happening is either
I have assembled the lifter arm and lifter stop wrong, the clutch plates inside the case are sticking, or I still need to keep trying different adjustments.
My cable (brand new) is entirely too short, or improperly routed. Currently it runs straight up, around the outside of the left carb boot, over the intake cam chain cover, under the tank, over the lower triple and bends right and back toward the clutch perch. I don't see any other way of routing it though.
The rubber accordion-like cover to protect the cable is somehow not allowing the clutch lifter arm to fully lift and allow for travel, but since its such soft rubber, I don't think it would impede its travel that much.
My clutch lifter arm is not starting at the right position when I install the cover onto the motor and not moving far enough out to push on the clutch rod.
My questions, for anyone who might have an answer, is the oil seal correctly placed on the end of the lifter arm/cam? Should it be farther pressed down?
Currently, the way this is assembled, the clutch lifter stop (the boomerang shaped piece) sits behind the oil seal and between the seal and the case cover. Does this actually need to sit above the seal? As in, between the seal and the arm of the clutch lifter?
Also, when installing the entire assembly into the case, should I back it out via the slot on the outside of the case, and then turn it inwards (possibly several rotations) until I get it to press the clutch lifter rod while I fit the case back on, and then adjust (CW+CCW) from there?
Thanks in advance!
Something tells me this will all boil down to an assembly mistake on my part, like one of these things is on backwards or I'm not adjusting something correctly. However, the problems I've been seeing seem to be a common trend among all these Honda CB DOHC's, especially the 450, 500, and 550's.
In a nutshell, I replaced the clutch cable with a shortened version from Dime City Cycles, and now my clutch won't fully disengage when I pull my lever.
Over on Hondatwins.net, there is an excellent write-up on how to adjust your clutch properly. I've read this thread about 40 times, and have also scoured their forums for a solution to my problem. Because no matter how much I try to adjust it, I can't get it a smooth action out of the clutch.
To complicate things, the bike was running well and the clutch was performing just shy of optimally two weeks ago, while I test drove the bike around and around the neighborhood. When I say the clutch was sub-optimal, I mean that it would not always want to shift into a neutral, and sometimes when I was in first gear, the bike would stall. This to me, meant the clutch was not fully disengaging and putting some load onto the gears, and without throttle, would stall the bike.
I re-routed my clutch cable to remove any sharp bends and tried adjusting it. Somewhere in the past two weeks of adjustments, including swapping out the clutch return spring for a shorter one, something went wrong. At this point, I can't even get the clutch to do anything when the lever is pulled.
Luckily, motorcycles can still switch gears even without a clutch, so I'm able to limp around the driveway while I adjust stuff to see if I get it right.
Yesterday, I completely disassembled the sprocket cover again to ensure that the spring, ball bearing, and clutch lifter assembly were still functioning in proper order. Although I had to rig up my clutch lifter arm to hold the clutch cable end (using a zip tie and bending the two remaining teeth of the clutch cable retainer), it's all still there.
Here's what it looks like, all freshly greased and recently sworn at:
I think what's happening is either
I have assembled the lifter arm and lifter stop wrong, the clutch plates inside the case are sticking, or I still need to keep trying different adjustments.
My cable (brand new) is entirely too short, or improperly routed. Currently it runs straight up, around the outside of the left carb boot, over the intake cam chain cover, under the tank, over the lower triple and bends right and back toward the clutch perch. I don't see any other way of routing it though.
The rubber accordion-like cover to protect the cable is somehow not allowing the clutch lifter arm to fully lift and allow for travel, but since its such soft rubber, I don't think it would impede its travel that much.
My clutch lifter arm is not starting at the right position when I install the cover onto the motor and not moving far enough out to push on the clutch rod.
My questions, for anyone who might have an answer, is the oil seal correctly placed on the end of the lifter arm/cam? Should it be farther pressed down?
Currently, the way this is assembled, the clutch lifter stop (the boomerang shaped piece) sits behind the oil seal and between the seal and the case cover. Does this actually need to sit above the seal? As in, between the seal and the arm of the clutch lifter?
Also, when installing the entire assembly into the case, should I back it out via the slot on the outside of the case, and then turn it inwards (possibly several rotations) until I get it to press the clutch lifter rod while I fit the case back on, and then adjust (CW+CCW) from there?
Thanks in advance!
manualofman
i always wind up with extra bolts leftover..
Thanks man. I wound up "figuring out" the issue, or just adjusting stuff until it went away. I went for just going for proper clutch feel. I then road around the neighborhood with for about 1 mile's worth of riding, up-shifting and downshifting regularly and got the clutch unstuck and working smoothly.
This was all after I had somehow drained my original Shorai battery beyond repair. The positive cable, even though it had a rubber terminal hood, shorted out against my battery box THROUGH THE RUBBER. Yes, there was a hole burned right through the rubber. My guess is that my seat had pinched part of the cable between the bottom foam insulation of the seat and the battery tray, vibration may have provided some friction and squashing action to let it short.
Either way, a new battery from Shorai costed me $80 (they pro-rated the warranty because it was 13 months old). Note to all of you, don't buy a battery way ahead of time (this wouldve been covered in full if this happened a month before).
Luckily, my new battery is a 14ah, up from the 12ah I originally bought for the bike. Shorai assured me that this was the OEM equivalent, even though I was 99% sure the manual states a 12ah. But, the kicker is that the new battery, is actually smaller than my old one! I had an A2 case previously, and the new one is an A4. Booyah.
The bike so far is running. I replaced the 55W/65W H4 bulb that came in for my new bucket after it was overly draining the battery after rides. With the 35W H4, it seems to hold charge well, even though I still store it on the Shoria BMS box. 35W is still plenty bright.
I'm still having some issues with the timing or jetting. The bike idles a little wonky, sometimes just barely coughing, sometimes high, and then sometimes its all off beat like a crappy Venice Beach drum circle.
I also have one cylinder lagging when opening up the throttle, it kicks in at about 3-4k rpm's and then the bike takes off. It's a little scary if this happens in a turn!
heres a video of it running though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZWlyENTgIg
This was all after I had somehow drained my original Shorai battery beyond repair. The positive cable, even though it had a rubber terminal hood, shorted out against my battery box THROUGH THE RUBBER. Yes, there was a hole burned right through the rubber. My guess is that my seat had pinched part of the cable between the bottom foam insulation of the seat and the battery tray, vibration may have provided some friction and squashing action to let it short.
Either way, a new battery from Shorai costed me $80 (they pro-rated the warranty because it was 13 months old). Note to all of you, don't buy a battery way ahead of time (this wouldve been covered in full if this happened a month before).
Luckily, my new battery is a 14ah, up from the 12ah I originally bought for the bike. Shorai assured me that this was the OEM equivalent, even though I was 99% sure the manual states a 12ah. But, the kicker is that the new battery, is actually smaller than my old one! I had an A2 case previously, and the new one is an A4. Booyah.
The bike so far is running. I replaced the 55W/65W H4 bulb that came in for my new bucket after it was overly draining the battery after rides. With the 35W H4, it seems to hold charge well, even though I still store it on the Shoria BMS box. 35W is still plenty bright.
I'm still having some issues with the timing or jetting. The bike idles a little wonky, sometimes just barely coughing, sometimes high, and then sometimes its all off beat like a crappy Venice Beach drum circle.
I also have one cylinder lagging when opening up the throttle, it kicks in at about 3-4k rpm's and then the bike takes off. It's a little scary if this happens in a turn!
heres a video of it running though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZWlyENTgIg
manualofman
i always wind up with extra bolts leftover..
You can see more pics of the build on my instagrm by the way, along with my blog.
http://instagram.com/life_wide_open
http://instagram.com/life_wide_open
