'74 CB360 cafe project - (New clutch springs and back to analog gauges.)

[mydlyfkryzis]

Here's a pic of the constant current module installed. The tail section there isn't water or air tight but it stays pretty dry in there... I got caught in the rain one day and had no issues with it getting wet in there. Still need to add the battery tender pig tail.

My understanding of lead acid batteries don;t understand the idea of a constant current charger.

1. As CrazyPJ stated, you can only supply excess current beyond what is needed for ignition and lights...The CB360 has no excess current at all at idle, and doesn;t break even till about 3500-4000 RPM....You will have some extra current at 9000 RPM, but that isn;t a great strategy either. So the constant current board is really a max current board.
2. Voltage, not current is what destroys the battery. A constant current board, as the battery charges, will keep increasing voltage to it's internal limit. This is because the battery has internal resistance that increases as the battery becomes charged. V=IR. Since you have a fixed current, as R increases, so does the voltage. High Voltage is what causes the electrolyte to gas out. Even an AGM can generate more gas then it can recover.
3. Go to Deltran's Website (http://batterytender.com/resources/battery-basics.htm/#answer6) and read about the Battery Tender Circuitry. They use constant current to 80% charge, then constant voltage then a float mode, where the current is a low maintenance mode, allowing the voltage to float. The Deltran Battery Tender (and others Brands that are similar) use a transformer to convert 110 AC to loer voltage and then use a rectifier for DC and then control circuitry. I would think the best way to get a good charge on the battery would be to emulate the DC side and control circuits of a Battery Tender type device. However, the battery tender itself is computer controlled and would not stand being separated from the AC source. But this is the way to get a better charging system.

I attached the graph of how a battery is charged for your amusement....

Oh: -Summary: Constant Current is not good for Lead Acid Battery Charging.

PS: CB360 generator is a current generator, not a voltage generator. The Voltage is based on the system resistance, which is how the regulator works, decreasing the resistance of the voltage gets too high. V=IR .... Ohm was a pretty smart guy.

 

[3DogNate]

My understanding of lead acid batteries don;t understand the idea of a constant current charger.

PS: CB360 generator is a current generator, not a voltage generator. The Voltage is based on the system resistance, which is how the regulator works, decreasing the resistance of the voltage gets too high. V=IR .... Ohm was a pretty smart guy.

http://www.audiowind.com/pdf/A-260.pdf
http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/active/en/resource/technical/document/datasheet/CD00000053.pdf

It's just in there as a secondary regulator, basically capping the voltage. It just occured to me that It might work well to ditch the Kohler and using the AC input on the A-260 and letting it be the only Rectifier/Regulator. hmmm

 

[mydlyfkryzis]

That the voltage is regulated is good....I didn't find the specs.....

It is 1 amp rated, your ignition coils use more than that. Plus headlight. At 1 amp, 13.8 volts, you can only charge the battery...the rest of the system still needs a regulated supply. You run off the alternator, the battery is only a storage place for starting, and an emergency supply for when the alternator can't make demand.

the other issue is the 28V AC rating. The alternator can make as high as 50-60 VAC....

Stick with the Kohler.

That's a nice little piece of electronics there. I like it....

You were using a diode to prevent feeding back...if I recall....???

 

[3DogNate]

Starter plug is installed and the motor back together... I only got a chance to run around the block once. Need to adjust my clutch cable a bit now.

 

[3DogNate]

I got out of work a little early and came home and adjusted my clutch. MUCH better now. New springs are keeping the clutch from slipping. I did a quick 10 mile circle and it was performing well on the road. Around 80mph in 5th was really responsive with the rpms in the 7500-8000 range another gear to go still.... haven't rung 6th out yet.

Idle is a little iffy still, It'll idle at 1200 for little bit but it'll die eventually slow down and die... I have to keep idle more at 1600 to keep from dying at stops... Timing is dead on the marks for both cylinders... with a timing light.
Any suggestions for that Peter or Eric? (I'm not terribly worried about it but it'd be nice to figger out. I am going to take effort shortly to try to tune the VM28s in. I'll get picky then.)

 

[crazypj]

Try adjusting fuel screws in 1/2 turn

 

[trek97]

I dont know nate, Ill have to try pjs 1/2 a turn myself. Not often but, Occasionally mine will idle down smooth as silk and just die. Seems after I been running 70+ for a distance. Fires right back up and idles fine, for rest of the ride.

 

[trek97]

and heres our hotel...in on the 10th out on the 14th.
http://hiltongardeninn3.hilton.com/en/hotels/alabama/hilton-garden-inn-birmingham-se-liberty-park-BHMLPGI/index.html?WT.mc_id=EPEMGIResconfEN

 

[crazypj]

You need to pull plugs and see if it's lean or rich when it cuts out
Are you back to 38 pilots?

 

[3DogNate]

You need to pull plugs and see if it's lean or rich when it cuts out
Are you back to 38 pilots?

Never switched anything in the carbs since I got them back from you... Only messed with the mixture screws.

I'll yank the plugs after letting it idle till it poops out.

 

[crazypj]

That was for Trek but it's a good idea anyway. ;D
I wondered if the weight stayed on the plugs
I think that's the lightest I've made, 1.12oz including screws and washers

 

[trek97]

sorry bout the thread jack bud, I still got the 41s in there. probably a little too rich w them. I lost track on my air/ fuels needles. but i know its not too far out of line.

 

[3DogNate]

sorry bout the thread jack bud, I still got the 41s in there. probably a little too rich w them. I lost track on my air/ fuels needles. but i know its not too far out of line.

That's cool

That was for Trek but it's a good idea anyway. ;D
I wondered if the weight stayed on the plugs
I think that's the lightest I've made, 1.12oz including screws and washers

No worries... These carbs are a little mysterious to me so any info is good info.

Also that's the same hotel I'm staying at for Barber... We're rolling in on the 11th and leaving on the 13th... Can't work in the extra days.

 

[3DogNate]

Mikunis are back on... have a couple of sizes of main and pilot jets on order. I will be in Memphis most of next week, I will tackle tuning the VM28 flat slides when I get back... stay tooned.

Interesting how much different the bike sounds running on the VM28s vs. the stock carbs at the same rpms.

(Stock VM28 jetting... stumbles a little bit coming off idle quickly, and poops out when I open the throttle wide open around 6000 rpm. we'll see if some bigger jets along with Matt's tuning advice gets these working well for the Barber trip.)

 

[trek97]

Sounds good bud, hope you have a good time down in Memphis. I should have my pipes installed by the time you get back and be working my rear sets.

 

[3DogNate]

Still trying to get the Mikunis tuned... I'm a fool for picking a carb that nobody else seems to have used and published tuning results for.

Would have been nice to have had a baseline setup to start tuning the VM/TM28 Flat Slides from...

I'm two tuning sessions in and still have a way to go... www.SpeedMotoCo.com sells a VM28 Round Slide Kit for the 360/350... I put an email into them to see if they'll let me in on the jetting they settled on in their Round Slide kit. We'll see if they are nice enough to help a guy out.

I also put an email into Sudco to see if they had any data also... Would be nice to take some guesswork (Or at least jet ordering) out of the equation.

 

[Sonreir]

Still trying to get the Mikunis tuned... I'm a fool for picking a carb that nobody else seems to have used and published tuning results for.

Would have been nice to have had a baseline setup to start tuning the VM/TM28 Flat Slides from...

I'm two tuning sessions in and still have a way to go... www.SpeedMotoCo.com sells a VM28 Round Slide Kit for the 360/350... I put an email into them to see if they'll let me in on the jetting they settled on in their Round Slide kit. We'll see if they are nice enough to help a guy out.

I also put an email into Sudco to see if they had any data also... Would be nice to take some guesswork (Or at least jet ordering) out of the equation.

You'll thank yourself once you do have them setup, though. Most things worth doing aren't easy, otherwise everyone would do them and they wouldn't be worth as much.

 

[3DogNate]

Okay... bit of an update here...

So even after I replaced my clutch springs with heavier EBC springs I still found my clutch slipping. There was another thread here about oil and the clutch... I had been running Castrol 4T 10w40 (same as most of us would run in a modern bike.) But on PJ's recommendation I switched to a Rotella 5w40 synthetic + ZDDP. After getting a few miles on it the clutch is not slipping nearly as bad and seems to still be improving. Oh, and my top end is very quiet now. This was worth doing for sure.

Biggest update is that I stopped fiddling with the VM28 Flat Slides, I just am too new to carbs to dial them in with any sort of efficiency. And I'm tired of constant f'ing with the bike. I'd like to enjoy it for a while. in a fit of frustration I ended up saying screw it threw money at the problem and ordered a VM30 CB350 kit from DCC. Now people seem to find the Jetting in the kit too rich for the CB350... Which seems to be a blessing for me and my bored out 360... after only adjusting the airscrews, I might actually be really close to or right on the jetting I should be at. I just installed them last night and made a fresh cable up for it and took it around the neighborhood and was impressed right off the bat. I rode it into work today and it was nice, rolls off idle nicely, and is responsive throughout the throttle range and at WOT. No smoking, or popping on deceleration... I'll do some plug chops this weekend to verify that things are as decent as they seem to be.

(Will make someone a killer deal on a pair of VM28 flat slides+boots+K&N filters... PM me if interested...)

 

[crazypj]

I heard years ago that flat slide carbs are best when on bike they were designed for.
Can't remember the reason but the air flow rate can be higher than round slide of same size but turbulence is higher at mid range so needle and needle jet are more critical.
It's why I didn't try to 'help' with the flatslides

 

[3DogNate]

I heard years ago that flat slide carbs are best when on bike they were designed for.
Can't remember the reason but the air flow rate can be higher than round slide of same size but turbulence is higher at mid range so needle and needle jet are more critical.
It's why I didn't try to 'help' with the flatslides

I can tell that the flat slides have potential, I did find one guy that sorted out a pair of 28 flat slides on a kz400, unfortunately he did not keep track of what he ended up with but did say it took a long time was pretty radical and had to go outside the usual family of needles and needle jet to get there. And this is a 2 stroke guy that knows flat slides well. Which is what prompted me to think the 28s are probably best In a 2 stroker's hands. So they will go up for sale.


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