CB550 Cafe Racer ..... It is finally done

Thanks Reds, I just wish my welder had your skills. I don't think I have ever seen that good of welds.

I just met a guy, that is going to teach me how to tig weld. Do you know any sites or videos available on the internet that I can learn from so that I can start off on the right foot?
 
Could you put your wiring diagram up for that taillight I bought the same thing, cannot seem to get it to work. Thanks and awesome bike, especially like the stance and rear custom fender.
 
GoingsMoto said:
. The customer wanted it like this, and the customer is always right .......................

Not in my experience.

That may sound odd, but when it comes to new owners and people who have limited experience, they don't know what they don't know, and that means they are rarely right. I had one a couple of weeks go armed with spreadsheets of data and dyno curves and wanted me to design something based on his analysis. His logic didn't sound right to me, so I sat down and worked out where he was wrong and sent him out to do some objective testing and he came back and agreed that he was headed in the wrong direction.

For example. a customer can tell you they don't need brakes or fork brace and the first time they try to stop hard or go round a corner they suffer the consequences of that lack of understanding. It is the responsibility of those building and selling to ensure that a bike is safe and that the client knows that you won't just do what they say when what they ask for is dumb.

I will always listen to a customer and treat them with respect, but I will not build something that doesn't work, just because that's what they ask for. I have no need to be a part of someone else's epic fail. Maybe that's just me,

Your client may not understand trail braking but you can pretty much guarantee that he'll grab a handful of front brake half way round a corner when he panics one of these days and when the forks flex and he shoots off the road, don't be surprised when his mom's attorney turns up on your doorstep. Just sayin' we need to be responsible as builders when we build for an OP that doesn't understand what he's asking for.
 
teazer said:
Not in my experience.

That may sound odd, but when it comes to new owners and people who have limited experience, they don't know what they don't know, and that means they are rarely right. I had one a couple of weeks go armed with spreadsheets of data and dyno curves and wanted me to design something based on his analysis. His logic didn't sound right to me, so I sat down and worked out where he was wrong and sent him out to do some objective testing and he came back and agreed that he was headed in the wrong direction.

For example. a customer can tell you they don't need brakes or fork brace and the first time they try to stop hard or go round a corner they suffer the consequences of that lack of understanding. It is the responsibility of those building and selling to ensure that a bike is safe and that the client knows that you won't just do what they say when what they ask for is dumb.

I will always listen to a customer and treat them with respect, but I will not build something that doesn't work, just because that's what they ask for. I have no need to be a part of someone else's epic fail. Maybe that's just me,

Your client may not understand trail braking but you can pretty much guarantee that he'll grab a handful of front brake half way round a corner when he panics one of these days and when the forks flex and he shoots off the road, don't be surprised when his mom's attorney turns up on your doorstep. Just sayin' we need to be responsible as builders when we build for an OP that doesn't understand what he's asking for.

You are a pretty big proponent of the fork brace. Have you ridden a bike without a fork brace and had one buckle? Have you known someone personally that has had this failure? There are tons of custom bikes out there without them so I guess there are a lot of people that are going to run off the road...
 
You may not end up crashing from it, but fork flex is very, very noticeable. Heck, just hit a raised driveway lip at an angle and watch your front wheel dance around. He's trying to help you, and trust me, he knows damn well what he's talking about. Listen to the man.
 
Thanks Ringo.

Dear Riotten let me tell you a story. Long time ago in a galaxy far far away, I had a cafe Racer. A triumph T100 1957 to be precise. And it did not have a fork brace. One day I was riding home through narrow winding streets of Edinburgh and a car came out of nowhere. I grabbed a handful of front brake and I could feel the whole front end twist. In an instant I was headed in a completely different direction - right into a parked car. Fortunately I wasn't going very fast.

I couldn't believe how much it twisted.

Fast forward a few decades and with all that experience under my belt I started racing a methanol burning CB72 with big bore kit etc etc. Fast bike but handling is a bit loose and did I mention no fork brace. Twice it spat me off entering a corner when the front end twisted enough to overcome traction and oops, there we go again, gravity kicked in.

Forks don't buckle, but they do tend to walk around a lot. If I fall off it's my own silly fault. If your buyer falls off because you made the bike inherently less safe than when it was manufactured, you are liable.

What you choose to do about anything I pointed out is entirely your own decision.

BTW there are lots of people who do all manner of stupid things. Does that mean it's OK for us to follow their example? You are not a sheep. You have shown enough initiative and creativity to build that bike, I'm confident that you have sufficient common sense to think about what you want to do.

Why not do a simple test on those forks. Stand in front of the bike with the wheel clasped between your knees. Now grab both bars and twist them from side to side. Repeat that on a bike with a fork brace or at least a good OEM steel fender and compare the two. That may give you a better appreciation of how much a non braced front end twists.
 
I enjoyed reading that very much, teazer. Thanks for sharing...

Now... didnt fast from the past have a fork brace I was going to buy...? Off I go.
 
i also stand behind the fork brace. and swing arm pivot brace for that matter.
its really that big of a difference when riding, especially when you start hitting twisties in a more aggressive manner.
 
not meaning to thread jack this or anything but you want to elaborate on that swing arm pivot brace hurley?
 
Thank you teazer for your concern, I am actually well aware of how telescopic forks work, where their strong points are and where their weak points are. In this case I explained to the customer the situation, I actually have a front fender in my garage that was ready to be put on the bike but he did not want it. I talked about a fork brace and the benefit of having a good one and how it would help. But he still did not take any action, by purchasing one. So if he is well aware of the situation then it is more on him especially since I told him how everything works. He is well informed but he still wants it like this.

I appreciate that you are looking out for my reputation as a builder and his safety. I am actually in the works of stress analyzing a Hossack front suspension that I have designed from carbon fiber, I also have a carbon wheel in the works as well. Believe me if it was my bike, it would not be set up like this.

Thanks again,

Chad

If you really want to learn about suspension and chassis design, I would recommend buying this book.
Make sure your physics and math skills aren't rusty, it isn't too complex but you need to have some basic knowledge on those subjects. http://www.tonyfoale.com/
 
Look Chad, I don't know much about all this bike jargon, and phony terminology you all are making up... Nor do I know the 6 different ways to skin a cat, or how to make fruit juice from a dill pickle.
But, here is what I can tell you...
Those 3 links you have in your signature don't work. Based on that, I assume you know nothing, and thus I give you zero credibility. I also assume the pictures of your bike are make believe, you are a computer robot, and probably live in a far away galaxy where you drink fine nectars and dance around furry water buffalo while singing theme songs to TV sitcoms.

Please don't push your alien ideas on me. Also, I sleep with my windows and doors locked, and my attic gnome will protect me from your brain wave scanner.

GOOD LUCK GETTING ME SONNY.
 
Burn the witch! (Biff)

Sorry I felt that appropriate there. GoingsMoto may have the links messed up, but he is for real and I heard that the furry water buffalo is pretty cool and a relatively tame creature. Just saying.
 
GoingsMoto said:
If you really want to learn about suspension and chassis design, I would recommend buying this book.
Make sure your physics and math skills aren't rusty, it isn't too complex but you need to have some basic knowledge on those subjects. http://www.tonyfoale.com/

Excellent suggestion. My copy is getting old and worn out. The late John Robinson had an excellent small book on Chassis design and then there's the Bradly book too. Tony Foal has excellent software as well.
 
hahahaha well luckily my brain scanner was already tested to get through attic gnomes and all gnomes for that matter. So I am afraid to tell you that I your brain is mine.

Tony's book is really good and informative, I think they have a mac edition.
 
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