"Do the Ton" rear sets - Lets do them cheap - No takers???

Makr,

1. I do not know why my statements are taken as 'this is mine, that is yours'. Read over them, I said I made these for the forum and not for profit. I am just want to make sure that it is for helping out the forum and not a corporation. I'm holding onto some IP rights for that reason, that's pretty much standard industry procedure - but I am not charging a single red cent to the forum or whoever makes them for the forum. Like I said, I am not looking for royalties , profits, etc. I will give the files to whoever decides to start producing these for the forum.

If I just openly posted the files on the internet with no IP, how long do you think it would be before someone starts knocking them off and starts selling them with mark up profit to people like you and me. In the end we are trying to prevent that here, right? I am in the same boat as everyone else here. A guy turning wrenches on his cafe, trying to have fun and a few laughs along the way. Commercially available rearsets are pricey, I'm trying to do my part and look at the big picture in a way to have a sweet set of rearsets available to this forum without the mark up costs of commercialization.

If I was not intending to help out in the spirit of this forum, I would have farmed out the CNC work and sold them from a website.


2. As far as this goes, they are designed, it is not tough to do them in Solidworks and the design can be reproduced by following the images and some clever thinking. The files are done, and I can send em out if you want to be the man to crunch the CNC code - just give me a day or two.

3. You're right about the placement as far as I was assuming. I do not know if it works on all models. More feedback from the forum would help finetune this.
 
Based on your past work with the CNC guy what type of ballpark do you "think" these rear sets would cost. Also, are we talking just the units or are we talking linkage too?

Thanks
 
Bcfellow,

I understand what you are saying, but I guess I see this as dixxiedevil posts an idea to benefit the community...you copy it, and claim it as your intellectual property...

If you think it is so easy to just farm it out and make a profit I think you should do it. 25 years of designing and building hard core motorcycle/race car stuff tells me it is never that easy. No "corporation" in their right mind would tackle this market, it is too diverse, too difficult to cover all years/models/tastes. Much easier to make rear sets for millions of R6, or GSXRs out there.

To me this still goes back to lets help this group of people make cool bikes. I have to work all day to make the mortgage. This is my fun.

I would think to do this in batches of 100 assemblies would be like this for a normal job shop:

pegs - $10 each side

inside of the mount - $10 each

outside of the mount - $10 each

Extension from mount to pivot - $17 each

Extension from pivot to adjustable rod - $15

Shifter - $20

Brake - $20

Toe pegs - $4

Bushing/bearing - $4

Bolts - $5 Toe peg, pivot, mounting

Spherical bearings - $20 - $5 each

Everyone would have to figure the attachment points to the shifter rod, and the brake pivot. They will all be different spines. The broaches are available, but kinda pricey, and you would need 5/6 to cover the Japanese brands.

So $205 for an assembly that is not quite finished. So a run of a hundred is 20 k. There is a reason Woodcraft, Sato, etc get 4/5 hundred for their rear sets.

I am still happy to help.
 
Makr,

I am the one who sent Dixiedevil the rearset images in the beginning. It took a few days comparing stock sizes for materials and costs, figuring out a universal solution and making the models. By then, Kodiak had some stuff on the go, so I PM'd Dixiedevel and sent him the images. I did not want to take thunder away from Kodiak and I preferred to stay behind the scenes and get objective feedback. When someone asked about copyright issues, I answered. I do not know how or why this answer is getting out of hand. I designed them that's why there is IP involved. If you donate your services to run some parts on a machine, do you not think it would be weird for people to ask for you to give up your codes and cnc machine? I'll donate my design files for the forum to use for their personal projects, but I'd like to keep my IP for the solution I derived - where is the harm in that? If the members are not being charged for the design, what is the issue?

I've worked with machinists before, on lots of scales of projects. Farming it out would not be hard, but it is not my intent. Like I said, I am not looking to profit. The design was made to help out.

And there are a handful of companies making rearsets. You are right about there being more for the sportbike industry. However Tarozzi and others do make reasets for applications such as cafe racers.

I should have originally mentioned that I was the one who made the images for Dixiedeveil, no wonder it's got you wound up. I'd be wound up too. The irony is I don't want my idea ripped off by companies, so I put an IP on it, and you figured I was ripping Dixiedevil off. My apologies for not clearing that up to start with.
 
How does one "put an IP" on something like this? This is an honest question.

Rear-sets have been commercially available since the early 50's
Adjustable rear-sets have been available since the day after the originals were put out there
Clamp-on mounts have been done and marketed, Rickman made some for the CB750 in the early 70's

The other thing is that even a full on patent is only as strong as ones ability to defend it. Patents and IP get walked all over on a daily basis and there's little anyone can do about it. I am involved in a market totally unrelated to motorcycles and several of my works have been ganked by 'market leaders' and there's little I can do to defend my intellectual property because they have MUCH deeper pockets. Just the nature of business unfortunately.
 
bcfellow said:
Makr,

I am the one who sent Dixiedevil the rearset images in the beginning. It took a few days comparing stock sizes for materials and costs, figuring out a universal solution and making the models. By then, Kodiak had some stuff on the go, so I PM'd Dixiedevel and sent him the images. I did not want to take thunder away from Kodiak and I preferred to stay behind the scenes and get objective feedback. When someone asked about copyright issues, I answered. I do not know how or why this answer is getting out of hand. I designed them that's why there is IP involved. If you donate your services to run some parts on a machine, do you not think it would be weird for people to ask for you to give up your codes and cnc machine? I'll donate my design files for the forum to use for their personal projects, but I'd like to keep my IP for the solution I derived - where is the harm in that? If the members are not being charged for the design, what is the issue?

I've worked with machinists before, on lots of scales of projects. Farming it out would not be hard, but it is not my intent. Like I said, I am not looking to profit. The design was made to help out.

And there are a handful of companies making rearsets. You are right about there being more for the sportbike industry. However Tarozzi and others do make reasets for applications such as cafe racers.

I should have originally mentioned that I was the one who made the images for Dixiedeveil, no wonder it's got you wound up. I'd be wound up too. The irony is I don't want my idea ripped off by companies, so I put an IP on it, and you figured I was ripping Dixiedevil off. My apologies for not clearing that up to start with.
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Okay, that makes more sense. Sorry for jumping your shit.

I can respect that you want to protect your idea.

I am still not sure I am comfortable making community rear sets with your legal precedence behind it. I will need to ponder this further.
 
im glad to see this seems to be going somewhere, too bad im not much help in either dept; the machine shop i work with turned out to be no help
 
just found this topic and read all through it.
so what's the status, is this in limbo atm?
i need some rear sets and need to start looking..
 
So does that mean that everyone jumped ship on this? I'm willing to pick up the machine work on my Fadal CNC, but I would have to get some additional tooling for the knurling and chamfer.
 
I haven't exactly jumped ship, just don't think I shouldbe trying to do government work in a brand new shop... As soon as i prove my worth, it shouldn't be a problem....
 
I think we all dream that these things are way overpriced and we should be able to get a decent set for $100. I think Makr is right, this shit costs money because there are so many parts. Its cheap for guys like Kodiak and Makr etc. who have the know how and access to the machinery to make if for themselves Thats why we build our own blast cabinets and electrolosys set ups. I would still rather spend a couple hundred bucks for custom sets from this group than a couple hundred to four hundred elsewhere. Intellectual property? are you fucking kidding me?!

I'm in for a couple sets depending on what they fit.

My daily ride is a CL450, I have a couple projects I could buy them for as well.

What about if we each took what ever plans we (you all, I just stumbled on this) came up with and went to our local machinest individually? Takes the pressure off of a few guys to do it all. I know a guy, who doesn't necessarily owe me a favor, but who might do me one that I could go to with plans and say, "hey can you make me a few sets of these? what would it cost?" and I would probably get a pretty good deal. I bet most of us do. Or provide this as an option and the nice guys here who are willing to make some sets on the cheap can help the guys who don't "know a guy"

Just thoughts.
 
Thanks Diesel.

I was not trying to create drama, sorry to you Kodiak if it turned into that. I thought you had a great idea,and wanted to back you up.

Diesel, I like your thought of getting a common model that that everyone could take to their local machine shop, I could help with that. If we could come up with something that would work for everyone, like the peg, lever, toe peg, inner pivot, etc., and then let the individual figure out the mount I could do the drawing, and make solid model, and post it for everyone to print off or save so they could take it to a machine shop to manufacture. I think we would need input from everyone on what they have done or think.

Here is what I did on my last bike(not a great picture, and not all done, and my camera seems on the blink for current photos):

DSC01187.jpg


I used one of the original mount holes for the side plate. Made a spacing disk for the back.

DSC01179.jpg


one is shifter lever, one is brake. I had a bunch of bearings from a bicycle part I used to make around, so I used those. Made the pegs on the pic on an earlier page. And just ran a bolt through the assembly. Then used the stock shift lever, just ground off the pivot, and tapped it for a 6mm bolt for the spherical bearing. On th brake side I cut the peg off, and welded a small bracket to attach the spherical bearing on that side. It works well, and I think the peg, arms, etc. would work on a bunch of applications.

I have solid models for all of it...and anyone is welcome to them. I think the levers are too complicated and will be too expensive, so I could drop the radius off, or whatever. I could post as a pfd with the dimensions, or a solid the shop could use to download to whatever software they want. They are pretty simple parts so most shop could generate code pretty easy, but I could also supply code for most machines (unless this turns into a nightmare...I got bikes that need love). The shop could change, redo, redesign, whatever, I have no claim on any of this.

Disclaimer: If you fuck your wife in the ass with a knurled peg and she cries, I am not responsible. And if you are offended by the last sentence you are not welcome to any of of this anyway, so fuck off.

I am still in on this. Gratis! Tell me your thoughts. And sorry this thread got jacked, but it did.
 
Disclaimer: If you fuck your wife in the ass with a knurled peg and she cries, I am not responsible. And if you are offended by the last sentence you are not welcome to any of of this anyway, so fuck off.
Click to expand...

See before you were just sketchy, now you've moved yourself firmly into the realm of Asshatery. Seriously dude, take a fucking hike.
That little nugget of sputum states your character pretty clearly I think.
 
Swagger said:
See before you were just sketchy, now you've moved yoruself firmly into the realm of Asshatery. Seriously dude, take a fucking hike.
That little nugget of sputum states your character pretty clearly I think.
Click to expand...

Sweets, you should report this post immediately for the sake of your soul.
 
I'd appreciate the use of less graphic analogies for people making their points.
 
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