midnightcafe
Been Around the Block
Hoofhearted said:
That's what I meant. Some fairings come with universal mounts but obviously most have to be custom fitted
Fairings! Where did they fall off?!
- Thread starter Gordon
- Start date
That's what I meant. Some fairings come with universal mounts but obviously most have to be custom fitted
When I got my faring from TGA in England it came just as that, a fairing, nothing else. I got to use my brain to figure the mountings out. The frame is powder coated and I didn't feel like destroying it in order to weld some tubing on the steering head for the front mount so I used some flat stock to come up from under the steering head. The side ounts are nothing more than some 1/2" consuit with flat stock welded on each end. They bolt from the engine plates to the fairing. Very simple and very straight forward. Strong enough? The mounts have survived three seasons at El Mirage and two Bonneville meets. So yes, they are more than strong enough.
Swagger
Putting boot to ass since 1967!
So I bought an early 90's Kawasaki Concours several years ago with the thought of building a good solid 'all around' rider. It'd been laid down and the plastic is rough, the fairing is pretty worthless. It's got 4XXX miles and runs beautifully, but like most all of these old bikes...I've yet to get around to doing anything with it. Now if you've seen one before (you have, it just didn't ring your bell) it's really slab sided, almost as bad as an early Hurricane 1000.
Since the body work is done, it occurs that a dustbin fairing and a more shaply tail to go with the Corbin seat might really make it a fun looking bike. They ride well, can carve and tour with aplomb......
Thoughts?
Since the body work is done, it occurs that a dustbin fairing and a more shaply tail to go with the Corbin seat might really make it a fun looking bike. They ride well, can carve and tour with aplomb......
Thoughts?
I love dustbins. But for land speed racing the only organisation that allows them is BUB. Airtech is about the only company I know that has them readily available. But Airtech = $. I think a dustbin would be fantastic on a streetbike. I''ve seen some photos of Ace cafe reunions and there were a couple of the older style dustbins on there. Personally I like the shape of Airtech's dustbin over the old style.
Dustbin fairings were banned by the FIM in 1957 IIRC because they caught too much side wind. In gusty conditions they were unstable and hard to control.
IMHO teh best looking fairing on a street bikes is an AVON or DUNSTALL shape. There are many variants around including Ducati 750ss
IMHO teh best looking fairing on a street bikes is an AVON or DUNSTALL shape. There are many variants around including Ducati 750ss
Weezy
The Impatient Perfectionist!
+1 on the dustbins. They are kind of ugly but they are the motorcycle equivalent of a muscle car with a blower sticking out of the hood. Show up at your next gathering with one on and see what happens. 
Here's a Moto Guzzi for you.
http://www.motosolvang.com/bike_pages/Moto_Guzzi_500cc_DOHC_V8.htm
I like the idea of taking something that is inherently dangerous (motorcycle) and making it faster and unstable. You gotta have balls to sport a dustbin.
Here's a Moto Guzzi for you.http://www.motosolvang.com/bike_pages/Moto_Guzzi_500cc_DOHC_V8.htm
I like the idea of taking something that is inherently dangerous (motorcycle) and making it faster and unstable. You gotta have balls to sport a dustbin.
There has been a lot of debate on dustbins. Most people, including myself, thought they were banned because of the cross wind effect. I still believe thats the reason. But Bob Bakker (cousin to and business partner with Nico Bakker of Bakker Frambou in Holland) has said the real reason was that the fairing were so efficient that fumes were being trapped in the fairing and riders were being afeected. I find it a bit tough to believe but he was there at the time and I wasn't.
Presenting a lot of surface to a side wind does create stability problems. No doubting that. My Peel fairing presents a fair amout of surface to side winds and it is affected by side winds. Enough to get my attention on a few occassions. This video was done a few years ago. Its me and Scott Baxter at El Mirage. There was a cross wind that day. Strong enough to stop the streamliners running. We were told we could run but it was our choice. About a mile into the run I got hit by a cross wind and hung a right. There was nothing I could do about it. I took out a couple of cones but stil ran 124 mph.
Crap! For some reason (me being brain dead) I can't get the link to load. If you go to youtube and type in "Bill anderson at El Mirage" it will show up. Sorry 'bout that.
I love Airtech dustbins. One of these days I'll buid a street bike with one.
Presenting a lot of surface to a side wind does create stability problems. No doubting that. My Peel fairing presents a fair amout of surface to side winds and it is affected by side winds. Enough to get my attention on a few occassions. This video was done a few years ago. Its me and Scott Baxter at El Mirage. There was a cross wind that day. Strong enough to stop the streamliners running. We were told we could run but it was our choice. About a mile into the run I got hit by a cross wind and hung a right. There was nothing I could do about it. I took out a couple of cones but stil ran 124 mph.
Crap! For some reason (me being brain dead) I can't get the link to load. If you go to youtube and type in "Bill anderson at El Mirage" it will show up. Sorry 'bout that.
I love Airtech dustbins. One of these days I'll buid a street bike with one.
Weezy said:
That's utter B/s with all due respect. Taking something inherently dangerous but which is controllable and making it into something which is potentially far more dangerous because of loss of control is not brave, It's just plain stupid. That last thing we need is for someone to go off believing they are brave to do something stupid.
That Guzzi V8 was a work of art, but that's an whole different story.
I get the idea that if something like a fairing doesn't come with everything needed then its too much trouble to put one on your bike. Heres a simple set up. As I said in an earlier post some flatstock and some 1/2" conduit. The Peel fairing on the Norton is a two piece. The botom half of the fairing is mounted with the conduit and flatstock. A square about 2' sq. ( You can make it to any size you require) is welded to one end of the tubing and drilled for two or four 1/4 20 allens. This mounts to the engine plates or whatever you have to use for a mount. the other end is open. I found a piece of tubing that is a slip fit inside the conduit. 1 1/2" of it and weld a 2" sq piece of flatstock to it. It bolts to the fairing. Drill a smallhole through the conduit and the slip piece and hold it with a locking pin. That way you can pull the pin and slip the fairing off. I can have the bottom half of the fairing off the Norton in 30 seconds. They say a photo is worth a thousand words. So heres a couple of photos.
By weslake at 2010-10-23
By weslake at 2010-10-23
The funny thing is the SCTA won't let you run a dustbin on a solo but they allow them on a sidecar. This is the "mini" dustbin I made for my sidecar.
By weslake at 2010-10-17
By weslake at 2010-10-23
By weslake at 2010-10-23
The funny thing is the SCTA won't let you run a dustbin on a solo but they allow them on a sidecar. This is the "mini" dustbin I made for my sidecar.
By weslake at 2010-10-17
pacomotorstuff
Coast to Coast
Ya, I've noticed the lack of fairings on cafe bikes over the years as well and have decided to do something about it.
After thinking about a half fairing, I'm building a full fairing for my RD350 cafe - either early Yamaha TZ700 without the bellypan or the Vesco TZ250 / 350 fairing. I've already built an OW31 Ducktail seat for it, so the fairing should have that mid-'70's to early '80's look. Distant third choice is a George Taylor-style TZ250 fairing from the '70's but I think the fairing is a little small for the street.
Regarding fairing mounts, the photos and comments already submitted appear to be excellent regarding fabrication methods, suggestions and execution. When I sell a fairing, I usually photocopy the fairing mounting system pages out of my TZ250B parts manual for the customer to give them a starting point. The mounting system at the nose of the fairing is always a challenge on a street bike, what with the headlight, instruments, etc. This is especially true if you don't want to weld onto the frame.
About 2-1/2 years ago we (Pacomotorstuff) had true universal fairing mounting kits in the works for our half and full fairings. The cost had been worked out, parts count done, basic tooling and jigs designed and fabrication started. We had a machinist and a certified welder in the loop - the whole enchilada. Had to stop when the recession bit and aside from doing a kit for my own bike, haven't given it any more thought. In case anyone is interested, the full kit would have been around $250.00 CDN...
The only other suggestion I have regarding mounts is to rubber mount everything you can, to dampen vibration.
Anybody have any suggestions or comments on my fairing choices?
Regards,
Pat Cowan,
Vintage Motorcycle Fiberglass
After thinking about a half fairing, I'm building a full fairing for my RD350 cafe - either early Yamaha TZ700 without the bellypan or the Vesco TZ250 / 350 fairing. I've already built an OW31 Ducktail seat for it, so the fairing should have that mid-'70's to early '80's look. Distant third choice is a George Taylor-style TZ250 fairing from the '70's but I think the fairing is a little small for the street.
Regarding fairing mounts, the photos and comments already submitted appear to be excellent regarding fabrication methods, suggestions and execution. When I sell a fairing, I usually photocopy the fairing mounting system pages out of my TZ250B parts manual for the customer to give them a starting point. The mounting system at the nose of the fairing is always a challenge on a street bike, what with the headlight, instruments, etc. This is especially true if you don't want to weld onto the frame.
About 2-1/2 years ago we (Pacomotorstuff) had true universal fairing mounting kits in the works for our half and full fairings. The cost had been worked out, parts count done, basic tooling and jigs designed and fabrication started. We had a machinist and a certified welder in the loop - the whole enchilada. Had to stop when the recession bit and aside from doing a kit for my own bike, haven't given it any more thought. In case anyone is interested, the full kit would have been around $250.00 CDN...
The only other suggestion I have regarding mounts is to rubber mount everything you can, to dampen vibration.
Anybody have any suggestions or comments on my fairing choices?
Regards,
Pat Cowan,
Vintage Motorcycle Fiberglass
Mounts for fairings are always a challenge. For race bikes it's easy. Weld a tube on the steering head and slip fit the mount into it. I use the same technique as Hoof on the side, but I glass the Tee piece onto the fairing for a cleaner look . If It's easier to use flat strap for a bracket, I use slip on type quarter turn fasteners.
Back in the day, fairings came the same way as they do now - just the fairing. Dunstall had a special bracket that bolted to teh steering head with a U bolt. Airtech do something similar.
On an RD, OW31 looks good but looks slightly large on the smaller bike. I'd use a TD3 fairing or early TZ250 fairing.
Back in the day, fairings came the same way as they do now - just the fairing. Dunstall had a special bracket that bolted to teh steering head with a U bolt. Airtech do something similar.
On an RD, OW31 looks good but looks slightly large on the smaller bike. I'd use a TD3 fairing or early TZ250 fairing.
Bobdot
Coast to Coast
Looking forward to hooking the 350 up with a half fairing this winter. Most likely go for Air-tech's Ducati Single, I think the 900SS would look a bit big on a little CB350. Havent found a better price for a similar style, and I'll probably vacuu-form my own windscreen to get a nice low profile. I'd like to french in some turn signals too. Now to find a tank to compliment...
dewjantim
duc in the park.....
I got a NOS Dunstall 1/2 cafe fairing from ebay. It is going on the GTL Ducati cafe which I am building now. Took the bike apart last week, altered a BMW fairing mount, and fixed it to the frame yesterday. Frame is going for paint tomorrow, bodywork has already been painted (red), tires mounted, one wheel detailed and polished, engine detailed, carbs cleaned and polished, lots of nuts and bolts wire wheeled and polished/painted. Still have to take seat for new cover (cafe style with hump), polish and paint a bunch of more parts, then put it all back together..... you guys know the drill..... finish build date..... Thanksgiving..... I hope : : :. Will post pics when finished.....
: :. Will post pics when finished.....
Swagger
Putting boot to ass since 1967!
Here's my thoughts on the dustbin stability issue....
those old bikes had skinny, fairly low friction compound tires, marginal geometry and cruddy suspension by modern standards. If you've seen a Concours then you know just how slab sided it is. I can't see it having as bad an effect on a modern 600pound sport tourer like it certainly would on a 335lb spindly(by comparison) bike.
It's all academic at this point though as I'm nowhere near that point yet....if ever.
I'd be inclined to make my own though......What Fun!
those old bikes had skinny, fairly low friction compound tires, marginal geometry and cruddy suspension by modern standards. If you've seen a Concours then you know just how slab sided it is. I can't see it having as bad an effect on a modern 600pound sport tourer like it certainly would on a 335lb spindly(by comparison) bike.
It's all academic at this point though as I'm nowhere near that point yet....if ever.
I'd be inclined to make my own though......What Fun!
The 500cc V8 Guzzi with skinny tires and rudimentary suspension was timed at 181 mph in 1956. They stopped racing it at the end of that year. Its a bit sad to hear such a wonderful machines being described in such terms.
Making your own dustbin is something that if you accomplish it you can be very proud of. And if it isn't absolutely perfect you can tell the naysayers to kiss your ass.
Making your own dustbin is something that if you accomplish it you can be very proud of. And if it isn't absolutely perfect you can tell the naysayers to kiss your ass.
Swagger
Putting boot to ass since 1967!
Don't misunderstand my comments above....I dig the old bikes I only stated it that way as a point of comparison.
You must admit Bill, they ARE rather rudimentary by comparison, that's not to say that one's opinion should be at all diminished though.
Just in this case, I think there'll be negligible difference between the the Concours barn door side presentation vs. a dustbin on that same barn door when it comes to cross wind's blowing the thing around. Woulds i want to cross Wyoming in the early Autumn on one....no, I think not. However, I've been blown off the road on a standard non-faired bike....crossing Wyoming in the early Autumn.
Trust me sir, I hold those 'spindly old bikes' in high regard, and I have a personal...ummmm....warm fuzzy place for that 'Guzi!
Eventually I'll get the English wheel and planisher back in use, but if I did build a bin it'll likely be glass, at least the first one. I'll need a bit of practice before making something like that from aluminum.
I've been known to tell people to kiss my ass on occasion, so that's covered as well. Ha!
You must admit Bill, they ARE rather rudimentary by comparison, that's not to say that one's opinion should be at all diminished though.
Just in this case, I think there'll be negligible difference between the the Concours barn door side presentation vs. a dustbin on that same barn door when it comes to cross wind's blowing the thing around. Woulds i want to cross Wyoming in the early Autumn on one....no, I think not. However, I've been blown off the road on a standard non-faired bike....crossing Wyoming in the early Autumn.
Trust me sir, I hold those 'spindly old bikes' in high regard, and I have a personal...ummmm....warm fuzzy place for that 'Guzi!
Eventually I'll get the English wheel and planisher back in use, but if I did build a bin it'll likely be glass, at least the first one. I'll need a bit of practice before making something like that from aluminum.
I've been known to tell people to kiss my ass on occasion, so that's covered as well. Ha!
Weezy
The Impatient Perfectionist!
teazer said:
Teaser
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I had to go back and read my comment to see how it came out wrong. I guess what I was trying to get across is that I like the look of the dustbin farings. It gives the bike a verry purposeful look. I would love to have one but I must admit it would pose some serious problems. I wouldn't ride it if it was windy (which where I live is most of the time) and because of it's potential instabillity I wouldn't ride it fast, which I realize defeats the purpose. I have great respect for the racers of that era, when you consider the machines they rode and the saftey gear they wore (pudding bowl helmet). They were a hearty breed, of course they did't know any better. So in reflection you are right, as cool as it would be to have a bike with a dustbin, it's negitives outweigh the positives. But it's fun to dream.
http://bsa.hailwood.com/images/paulgoff.jpg
pacomotorstuff
Coast to Coast
I'm not certain if the thread of the post is mutating a bit or something, but I thought we were discussing when cafe bikes shed their fairings?
In my case, going back as far as I can remember (the late '50's), in my area (southern Ontario, Canada) none of the street bikes had much more than a windshield. Even at the one road race I remember (Harewood Acres), the majority of the bikes ran without fairings.
The first cafe-style bikes with fairings that I saw around were the Velocettes, which had full fairings on them from the factory. That was by about '65. I fell in with 2 Brit brothers at my highschool and got to read all the neat bike magazines they got from Blighty, eat "chips" and drink gallons of tea so strong the spoon would stand up in the cup - but I digress. My Yamaha went from high bars to clubmans, I had a half fairing on it briefly and so on. There weren't very many of us around, let me tell you... and no, I never saw a dustbin fairing on a streetbike but that doesn't mean someone didn't do it.
By the late '60s there was the odd British or Jap bike in my area with a fairing and then the real rush came with the Honda 4's, the Dunstall kits, etc. and the little handlebar fairings that seemed to get put on everything from a moped to a Harley chopper..
So to answer the post question, "Fairings, Where did they fall off?", I guess in my area at least, there were never that many to fall off in the first place...
Regards,
Pat Cowan,
Vintage Motorcycle Fiberglass
In my case, going back as far as I can remember (the late '50's), in my area (southern Ontario, Canada) none of the street bikes had much more than a windshield. Even at the one road race I remember (Harewood Acres), the majority of the bikes ran without fairings.
The first cafe-style bikes with fairings that I saw around were the Velocettes, which had full fairings on them from the factory. That was by about '65. I fell in with 2 Brit brothers at my highschool and got to read all the neat bike magazines they got from Blighty, eat "chips" and drink gallons of tea so strong the spoon would stand up in the cup - but I digress. My Yamaha went from high bars to clubmans, I had a half fairing on it briefly and so on. There weren't very many of us around, let me tell you... and no, I never saw a dustbin fairing on a streetbike but that doesn't mean someone didn't do it.
By the late '60s there was the odd British or Jap bike in my area with a fairing and then the real rush came with the Honda 4's, the Dunstall kits, etc. and the little handlebar fairings that seemed to get put on everything from a moped to a Harley chopper..
So to answer the post question, "Fairings, Where did they fall off?", I guess in my area at least, there were never that many to fall off in the first place...
Regards,
Pat Cowan,
Vintage Motorcycle Fiberglass
dewjantim
duc in the park.....
I am glad most of those dustbin fairings fell off..... in my most humble opinion, most were really ugly . I hate to think what they were like in a sidewind at speed, which was the real reason they were outlawed. Now, the 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and full fairings were really cool. Airtech makes a lot of them.... in carbon or fiberglass. I have bought a lot of glass from Dutch and they really make quality stuff. If you dustbin lovers want to see a modern dustbin for the street (well semi-modern) look up Jackwal Fairings......
. I hate to think what they were like in a sidewind at speed, which was the real reason they were outlawed. Now, the 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and full fairings were really cool. Airtech makes a lot of them.... in carbon or fiberglass. I have bought a lot of glass from Dutch and they really make quality stuff. If you dustbin lovers want to see a modern dustbin for the street (well semi-modern) look up Jackwal Fairings......
