S
smvirili
Guest
enjoy the rest of it. and be careful of em ladyboy's, haaa
safe flight home man, your blue-bird is waiting.
safe flight home man, your blue-bird is waiting.
Kawasaki 250 F11B - dads old bike
- Thread starter jaderd
- Start date
jaderd
Been Around the Block
ok had first ride on the road yesterday, just in and around the estate i live in.
at first bike felt wierd and wobbly....due to the 9 psi mainly in the tyres, topped up to 25psi, felt better, though both front and rear have slight buckles i think which ill attend to in time, main problem was the tyre flex with low PSI i think.
now only thing im not sure of is operating temp of bike.....the temp sensor which is slipped under one of the 12mm ( i think) cylinder head bolts.
it peaked at 139 degrees celsius at one point.....on the net ive come across a few things where ppl say around up to 310 farenheit is the max they expect etc so around 180 celcius...does this sound about correct ?
bike felt ok, no pinging that i could hear, i checked air screw turned all way in which coincided with flat head screw line being perfectly vertical, so backed it out 1 and 3/4 as per manual.
bike stammered a little in say 3rd gear when wrapping on throttle.
Checked plug which looked oil fouled yet normal re top color being chocolate like.
i have swapped in a brand new plug as this one is years old, will give it a test tonight.
Tacho still not working will test more wiring configs soon....not too worried.
Will put the little rubber grommets back in fins to reduce noise and vibration tonight.
Only thing im worried about is whether it is running correct re not too hot in temp / too lean. Will check the plug straight away after a 10-15 rap around block tonight and inspect, really want to ride it to and from work thursday so can go past uncles and show dad (65km round trip). But dont want to harm anything.
Could the stammering bit at 3/4 throttle be from the fouled plug....from when bleeding oil pump i guess.
i would not have assumed it was hot if i didnt have a temp guage, just seeing 139 degrees C startled me a little but im guessing normal.
Bike idled perfect after the 15 min ride etc so im guessing not lean etc.
any advice welcome, mainly around whether i should do the longer ride on thursday, below is pic of current plug...stupid i phone wouldnt focus, i will post up pic tonight of the new plug after 15 mins and report etc.
Cheers
at first bike felt wierd and wobbly....due to the 9 psi mainly in the tyres, topped up to 25psi, felt better, though both front and rear have slight buckles i think which ill attend to in time, main problem was the tyre flex with low PSI i think.
now only thing im not sure of is operating temp of bike.....the temp sensor which is slipped under one of the 12mm ( i think) cylinder head bolts.
it peaked at 139 degrees celsius at one point.....on the net ive come across a few things where ppl say around up to 310 farenheit is the max they expect etc so around 180 celcius...does this sound about correct ?
bike felt ok, no pinging that i could hear, i checked air screw turned all way in which coincided with flat head screw line being perfectly vertical, so backed it out 1 and 3/4 as per manual.
bike stammered a little in say 3rd gear when wrapping on throttle.
Checked plug which looked oil fouled yet normal re top color being chocolate like.
i have swapped in a brand new plug as this one is years old, will give it a test tonight.
Tacho still not working will test more wiring configs soon....not too worried.
Will put the little rubber grommets back in fins to reduce noise and vibration tonight.
Only thing im worried about is whether it is running correct re not too hot in temp / too lean. Will check the plug straight away after a 10-15 rap around block tonight and inspect, really want to ride it to and from work thursday so can go past uncles and show dad (65km round trip). But dont want to harm anything.
Could the stammering bit at 3/4 throttle be from the fouled plug....from when bleeding oil pump i guess.
i would not have assumed it was hot if i didnt have a temp guage, just seeing 139 degrees C startled me a little but im guessing normal.
Bike idled perfect after the 15 min ride etc so im guessing not lean etc.
any advice welcome, mainly around whether i should do the longer ride on thursday, below is pic of current plug...stupid i phone wouldnt focus, i will post up pic tonight of the new plug after 15 mins and report etc.
Cheers
Can't really tell what's happeneing from those pics of your rag :
Put a new spark plug in and see what happens.
139 deg is not overheating.
If the stutter still persists after a new plug you might want to raise the carb slide needle a notch. You should be able to do this fairly easily by unscrewing the cap at the top of the carb - the slide and spring should come straight out (just be carfeul putting the slide back in the carb as it has a slot that can only go in one way).
If that makes it better, good. If it's worse, try moving the needle in the other direction. Trial and error really.
Congrats on your first ride
Put a new spark plug in and see what happens. 139 deg is not overheating.
If the stutter still persists after a new plug you might want to raise the carb slide needle a notch. You should be able to do this fairly easily by unscrewing the cap at the top of the carb - the slide and spring should come straight out (just be carfeul putting the slide back in the carb as it has a slot that can only go in one way).
If that makes it better, good. If it's worse, try moving the needle in the other direction. Trial and error really.
Congrats on your first ride
jaderd
Been Around the Block
sweet thanks for the info hillsy, puts my mind at ease
could be the needle prob, the book says notch 3 so i put it in there, when i removed it, it was in notch 2, im 99% sure dad would have never changed it or tuned it so maybe when assembled in mildura prior to selling they found notch 2 was more suited etc.
yeah read a way to change the needle quite easy, it utilises some medical forceps to gold back the spring...thankfully misses is a nurse so found a few in the bottom drawer that are now garage items
will post up pics of new plug after a run
could be the needle prob, the book says notch 3 so i put it in there, when i removed it, it was in notch 2, im 99% sure dad would have never changed it or tuned it so maybe when assembled in mildura prior to selling they found notch 2 was more suited etc.
yeah read a way to change the needle quite easy, it utilises some medical forceps to gold back the spring...thankfully misses is a nurse so found a few in the bottom drawer that are now garage items
will post up pics of new plug after a run
jaderd
Been Around the Block
Ok new plug in tonight,
started up bike no worries, drove it around it seems that you can wrap it on fairly nice and smooth in first and second gear and on the flat even third, maybe up to just under 3/4 throttle.
in first and second you can quickly twist it up to 3/4 throttle approx and it will get up the revs and speed with no hiccups.
i took off out of estate and up a steep hill, 2nd gear i think was ok but third gear as i got prob 1/2 to 3/4 throttle it was really pronounced and bad stammering and missing to the point where i had to drop back to 1/3rd throttle or so to keep it going ok...prob around 40kmh max, had to pull over for traffic.
On the flat/slight down hill i had the bike up to 80km approx (after the hill) as i didnt have to wrap it on too far.
Regardless of terrain if i am in 4th or 5th doing say 45kmh is i slowly wrap it on its ok for a while but regardless of speed i try to accelerate it always stammers and misses etc.
5 min in to the ride i revved it fairly hard in 1st 2nd and 3rd, prob just up to 3/4 throttle and pulled out plug it looked fine (same as pic below)
i then continued for maybe another 10 min when i was testing all the above problems and then checked plug (pic below)
Looks to me like its running just fine, nice chocolate brown color no excess oil etc, what do you think ?
Seems that the symptoms are that its too rich at that point, air screw is at exactly 1 & 3/4 turns out.
Would first thing be too drop the needle down one notch and move the circlip to spot 2 which is where it was all its life and i dont remember it ever missing like it is now. Ill test it tomoz night. I dont think i ever got bike past 3/4 throttle so im pretty sure that the main jet is fine and not blocked etc.
Is it normal that the problem seems to be exaggerated in gears 3-4-5 ?
Cheers
started up bike no worries, drove it around it seems that you can wrap it on fairly nice and smooth in first and second gear and on the flat even third, maybe up to just under 3/4 throttle.
in first and second you can quickly twist it up to 3/4 throttle approx and it will get up the revs and speed with no hiccups.
i took off out of estate and up a steep hill, 2nd gear i think was ok but third gear as i got prob 1/2 to 3/4 throttle it was really pronounced and bad stammering and missing to the point where i had to drop back to 1/3rd throttle or so to keep it going ok...prob around 40kmh max, had to pull over for traffic.
On the flat/slight down hill i had the bike up to 80km approx (after the hill) as i didnt have to wrap it on too far.
Regardless of terrain if i am in 4th or 5th doing say 45kmh is i slowly wrap it on its ok for a while but regardless of speed i try to accelerate it always stammers and misses etc.
5 min in to the ride i revved it fairly hard in 1st 2nd and 3rd, prob just up to 3/4 throttle and pulled out plug it looked fine (same as pic below)
i then continued for maybe another 10 min when i was testing all the above problems and then checked plug (pic below)
Looks to me like its running just fine, nice chocolate brown color no excess oil etc, what do you think ?
Seems that the symptoms are that its too rich at that point, air screw is at exactly 1 & 3/4 turns out.
Would first thing be too drop the needle down one notch and move the circlip to spot 2 which is where it was all its life and i dont remember it ever missing like it is now. Ill test it tomoz night. I dont think i ever got bike past 3/4 throttle so im pretty sure that the main jet is fine and not blocked etc.
Is it normal that the problem seems to be exaggerated in gears 3-4-5 ?
Cheers
jaderd
Been Around the Block
hmm sounds good all nice easy tests really.
i left air screw at stock setting.
i moved jet to position 2, took it for a ride and was a fair bit better, still stammers but better, enough to say that you could almost safely ride it on the road as third gear you can wind a fair way before anything. i think its def between 1/4 and 3/4, if i wrap it on to full throttle it does the stuttering at a massive level thus cant get it to WOT to see how main jet is etc.
i then came home, took out air filter did same 2km ride and no difference at all, so rules out that.
took plug out 3-4 times nearly all after hard revving in 3rd then clutch and bike off.
Plug basically identical to yesterdays photos, todays pic is below. if anything from my little knowledge it could still be classified as rich, the other factor that may be a big bulb for you guys with knowledge if i even put the choke on the tiniest bit it does the exact symptom - rich ?
the choke can only push 2/3rds of its slider on handlebar before its fully on, which made me think is it permenently on a little, the adjusters at each end were already wound right in, i undid choke at handlebar and reinstalled and could feel that it seems to have free play at the off position which is good so maybe not that.
I almost feel that if i dropped to position 1 on clip it may be spot on....but dont want it too lean of course....
Any diff ideas i should try with this new info...choke even slightly on while riding replicates identical symptoms.
cheers in advance for everyones input.
i left air screw at stock setting.
i moved jet to position 2, took it for a ride and was a fair bit better, still stammers but better, enough to say that you could almost safely ride it on the road as third gear you can wind a fair way before anything. i think its def between 1/4 and 3/4, if i wrap it on to full throttle it does the stuttering at a massive level thus cant get it to WOT to see how main jet is etc.
i then came home, took out air filter did same 2km ride and no difference at all, so rules out that.
took plug out 3-4 times nearly all after hard revving in 3rd then clutch and bike off.
Plug basically identical to yesterdays photos, todays pic is below. if anything from my little knowledge it could still be classified as rich, the other factor that may be a big bulb for you guys with knowledge if i even put the choke on the tiniest bit it does the exact symptom - rich ?
the choke can only push 2/3rds of its slider on handlebar before its fully on, which made me think is it permenently on a little, the adjusters at each end were already wound right in, i undid choke at handlebar and reinstalled and could feel that it seems to have free play at the off position which is good so maybe not that.
I almost feel that if i dropped to position 1 on clip it may be spot on....but dont want it too lean of course....
Any diff ideas i should try with this new info...choke even slightly on while riding replicates identical symptoms.
cheers in advance for everyones input.
jaderd
Been Around the Block
Cheers hillsy
thanks for the advice, i think ill drop it to position 1
the carby was pretty mucked up from 35 + years, im guessing that it being on setting 2 and running fine may have been due to gunk not letting it run rich ?
now that everything is clean and "serviced", cleaned airbox new proper filter (was running with a stocking over the cage) that it needs to be leaned out using the needle.
The other thing i have noticed is that i can turn the choke off after even as little as 10 seconds and the bike idles over fine...guessing thats ok as the choke is just to make it run rich at idle, if it runs fine without thats ok ? i dont think it used to be like this i think choke was needed for a longer period of time.
Cheers in advance for further advice.
thanks for the advice, i think ill drop it to position 1
the carby was pretty mucked up from 35 + years, im guessing that it being on setting 2 and running fine may have been due to gunk not letting it run rich ?
now that everything is clean and "serviced", cleaned airbox new proper filter (was running with a stocking over the cage
) that it needs to be leaned out using the needle.The other thing i have noticed is that i can turn the choke off after even as little as 10 seconds and the bike idles over fine...guessing thats ok as the choke is just to make it run rich at idle, if it runs fine without thats ok ? i dont think it used to be like this i think choke was needed for a longer period of time.
Cheers in advance for further advice.
There's another clue - the choke is there to richen the mix for starting. If it runs OK cold without the choke then that indicates it's jetted on rich side.
Is the main jet the stock size? Could it have been bumped up a size in the past (especially if it was running OK with a stocking as a filter) ??
Is the main jet the stock size? Could it have been bumped up a size in the past (especially if it was running OK with a stocking as a filter) ??
jaderd
Been Around the Block
yeah main jet stock size inline with manual 99% sure, dad owned bike entire time and im also 99% sure it never got touched.
could it be my choke is somehow still slightly on the whole time effecting the richness across the whole rev range.
cold at low idle without the choke isnt that using the pilot jet ?..sorry for noob questions, im starting to understand carbys.....alot to learn i have found
cheers
could it be my choke is somehow still slightly on the whole time effecting the richness across the whole rev range.
cold at low idle without the choke isnt that using the pilot jet ?..sorry for noob questions, im starting to understand carbys.....alot to learn i have found
cheers
jaderd
Been Around the Block
its a cable operated choke, im 99% sure in the past i would push the lever on the bars and it would use the entire "track" it has, since rebuild i can only push it 2/3rds or so which had me thinking it is slightly on, i checked and appeared not but i think this needs further investigation, it might be that i need to slide the entire unit further up bar to give more slack etc as from checking the adjustment on both ends of cable are on longest setting.
The other reason why i think this could still be the issue is like you said it starts too easy, choke off after a few seconds and its ok, and the fact that just pushing choke on 2-3mm and it replicates the issue severely while riding along in any gear. Would also explain why idles so well (rich) and the overall richness caused by the choke over the whole rev range would be noticed most when getting towards 3/4 and WOT im guessing ?
def my first test i think before i remove needle and alter i think.
The other reason why i think this could still be the issue is like you said it starts too easy, choke off after a few seconds and its ok, and the fact that just pushing choke on 2-3mm and it replicates the issue severely while riding along in any gear. Would also explain why idles so well (rich) and the overall richness caused by the choke over the whole rev range would be noticed most when getting towards 3/4 and WOT im guessing ?
def my first test i think before i remove needle and alter i think.
andycafe
Northern Suburbs, Melbourne Victoria, Australia
Great to hear you've had the smoker out for a squirt, hope your getting the stutter sorted, just want to give you a idea for a test track because of where you live. just up the road from you is Yan Yean Reservoir which has a public road all the way around it and all of the back section is gravel with nice flowing corners and a few up and downs. just head up Plenty Rd and turn right onto Arthur's creek Rd follow until you get to cross road and turn left onto Ridge Rd then just keep following until you get to a T intersection which is basicly Plenty Rd turn left and your on your way home. MMM Just talked myself into it such i nice day I'm going to ride it now then come home and watch motogp quali the island. LOL...
jaderd
Been Around the Block
Chees Andy, not dont really need to go that far to test and get the symptoms etc.
today did the following, still stammers
Bit of an update.
Fiddled with Choke, seems to have got it some more "length" so i am sure the plunger sits tight in the off position, didnt have effect on stammer.
disconnected the tacho from vapor dash, didnt effect stammer, even with no wire connected the unit still senses revs ?...wierd.
wired my throttle grip on as just glue wasnt enough.
checked plug, looks really good, whole centre piece a nice caramel brown etc.
tomorrow im just going to put the needle on clip 1...most lean and see what that does.
if that does nothing ill pull carby to bits again, then after that i think ill have to drop bike off somewhere.
Cheers
today did the following, still stammers
Bit of an update.
Fiddled with Choke, seems to have got it some more "length" so i am sure the plunger sits tight in the off position, didnt have effect on stammer.
disconnected the tacho from vapor dash, didnt effect stammer, even with no wire connected the unit still senses revs ?...wierd.
wired my throttle grip on as just glue wasnt enough.
checked plug, looks really good, whole centre piece a nice caramel brown etc.
tomorrow im just going to put the needle on clip 1...most lean and see what that does.
if that does nothing ill pull carby to bits again, then after that i think ill have to drop bike off somewhere.
Cheers
Kawasaki F11-B 250 1975
Kawasaki F11-B Enduro 250 1975 european model
Hi.
Excelent topic, and excelent restore project, with your "personal touch".
I'm Ivo, from Portugal, and i restored my F11-B european model, 2 or 3 years ago, up to it's original condition.
Here are some pics.
Best regards, and good luck with your F11-B.
Excelent topic, and excelent restore project, with your "personal touch".
I'm Ivo, from Portugal, and i restored my F11-B european model, 2 or 3 years ago, up to it's original condition.
Here are some pics.
Best regards, and good luck with your F11-B.
Attachments
jaderd
Been Around the Block
That looks brilliant mate, nice work looks like you did an A1 resto
today i played again, went to clip one on needle, no real difference, maybe slightly better but still stammers, the slightly better feeling is cos it will be taking slightly longer to get to the crap stammering point due to needle dropping, so clip 2 and 1 seemed to slightly improve due to this.
Next step is take carby out drop bowl and inspect things esp main jet, could be some crap there etc.
Will do that tomorrow night, surprisingly im not getting pissed off with things as atleast i have been able to have the bike out etc....trial and error as everyone has mentioned
today i played again, went to clip one on needle, no real difference, maybe slightly better but still stammers, the slightly better feeling is cos it will be taking slightly longer to get to the crap stammering point due to needle dropping, so clip 2 and 1 seemed to slightly improve due to this.
Next step is take carby out drop bowl and inspect things esp main jet, could be some crap there etc.
Will do that tomorrow night, surprisingly im not getting pissed off with things as atleast i have been able to have the bike out etc....trial and error as everyone has mentioned
jaderd
Been Around the Block
ok i pulled the baffle out of exhaust and put needle back on stock 3 position.
took it for a ride, no diff, worse actually as needle was back in position 3 so felt it earlier in the rev range slightly etc.
took carby apart and as i thought in bed the other night i didnt actually remove the needle jet last time, i didnt read that it was able to be pushed out from the bottom then slid back in from the top.
Put the bowl and main jet, needle jet and afew other bits n pieces in the ultrasonic cleaner, seemed to do an ok job. I also put the top part of carb in cleaner in a few different positions to clean that out.
then checked everything and blew it all with compressed air, held all jets and other things up to the light to ensure they were perfectly clean etc.
Put it all back together and will test it tomorrow night....fingers crossed it was the needle jet, it did have some scaly gunk around it...and prob some within it prior to the ultrasonic cleaner.
cheers
took it for a ride, no diff, worse actually as needle was back in position 3 so felt it earlier in the rev range slightly etc.
took carby apart and as i thought in bed the other night i didnt actually remove the needle jet last time, i didnt read that it was able to be pushed out from the bottom then slid back in from the top.
Put the bowl and main jet, needle jet and afew other bits n pieces in the ultrasonic cleaner, seemed to do an ok job. I also put the top part of carb in cleaner in a few different positions to clean that out.
then checked everything and blew it all with compressed air, held all jets and other things up to the light to ensure they were perfectly clean etc.
Put it all back together and will test it tomorrow night....fingers crossed it was the needle jet, it did have some scaly gunk around it...and prob some within it prior to the ultrasonic cleaner.
cheers
jaderd
Been Around the Block
ok put the carby back in, needle back to stock position 3 and identical to before
so far i have checked / tested.
adjusted choke, ensured was closing off properly.
adjusted needle, tried in position 3,2,1
took off trailtech vapor tacho to ensuring not grounding spark lead some how
took airfilter in and out
took baffle in and out
took carby completely apart and ultrasonic clean and back together.
ppl say the plug looks fine re ok mixture (autoloube working etc)
if while going along i put choke on even a little it replicates the stammering/sounds like its flooding and dies off in power.
Seems to me it must be rich some how ? though needle on clip 1 does same thing just further on in the rev range due to needle height change etc.
im stumped....need to organise someone to look at it....anyone here keen ? have a ride see what you think / advise etc..
tricky part is its not really practical or safe to ride it on road to anywhere as up hills its unsafe and slow etc.....clincher is i live in doreen just past greensborough....anyone out this way ?
any other simple checks i can do at home ?
cheers
so far i have checked / tested.
adjusted choke, ensured was closing off properly.
adjusted needle, tried in position 3,2,1
took off trailtech vapor tacho to ensuring not grounding spark lead some how
took airfilter in and out
took baffle in and out
took carby completely apart and ultrasonic clean and back together.
ppl say the plug looks fine re ok mixture (autoloube working etc)
if while going along i put choke on even a little it replicates the stammering/sounds like its flooding and dies off in power.
Seems to me it must be rich some how ? though needle on clip 1 does same thing just further on in the rev range due to needle height change etc.
im stumped....need to organise someone to look at it....anyone here keen ? have a ride see what you think / advise etc..
tricky part is its not really practical or safe to ride it on road to anywhere as up hills its unsafe and slow etc.....clincher is i live in doreen just past greensborough....anyone out this way ?
any other simple checks i can do at home ?
cheers
