XS650 Cafe - Build #4

crazypj said:
That Shoria isn't going to be happy on an XS650 ;)
BTW, I probably mentioned it, front forks will be around 4"~5" too short for good handling without reducing ground clearance severely, it isn't a trail issue, just ground clearance issue
Click to expand...

Right now the Shorai is just for mock up, that battery is junk. If you look closely the casing is cracked, but it has very similar dimensions to several other battery options so I could build the tray. Besides, I think I can make a Shorai work in an xs650

Yes, you did mention the fork length earlier and I referred you to my cad drawing. I am not anticipating any ground clearance issues, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Loaded gun customs recently built an inverted front/monoshock rear xs650 with good geometry...
 
You could probably ask Tim about battery, I forget the rpm where XS starts charging
I have a few sets of USD forks I was thinking of using on XS but didn't want to loose ground clearance so fitted Suzuki Katana parts
Katana600FR.jpg


I even fitted some Kawasaki forks/wheel but wasn't happy with wheel or brake mouting (I have 3 XS650's 8) )
XS650chassis2-Oct08.jpg


Ended up fitting lowered Katana forks
Stretchedandlowered-frontend.jpg


About 10~12 yrs ag you could get early Katana (pre 97) forks for next to nothing, so many GSXR's were being crashed and parted 'everyone' got USD (except me ;D )
 
crazypj said:
You could probably ask Tim about battery, I forget the rpm where XS starts charging
I have a few sets of USD forks I was thinking of using on XS but didn't want to loose ground clearance so fitted Suzuki Katana parts
Click to expand...


I am still deciding on if I am going to run the stock charging system on the xs, or if I am going to upgrade. There are a lot of good options out there, but unfortunately it all comes at a price $$$!

You certainly explored some options for the front end. I knew that I would have some challenges fitting the gsxr forks including ground clearance, but I think that it is going to work out.

If you reference this recent picture, you can see that the bike is supported by 2x4 cribbing. Currently there is 10" of cribbing under the rear of the frame with a flat rear tire, and the front end is not fully elevated to the correct ride height that it will have with the 19" front wheel and tire.



After the wheels and correct tires are on, minus suspension sag etc., I should be right around 9" of ground clearance if I am careful routing the exhaust and mounting the rearsets. That's good enough for my purposes
 
CrazyPJ brings up a good point. So just a quick note while we're on the topic...

I am building this bike for a specific niche, which is not racing or top performance. For anyone following who is new to vintage bike building, this is not what real performance looks like.
If I were building for performance I would have done almost everything different. I would have built the frame and swingarm to be more rigid, and from chromoly with a much thinner wall to save weight. I would have never used a mono shock or usd forks. Instead I would use some quality dual rear shocks and sourced some old Ohlins forks in the correct length with proper valving and spring rates. I would run adjustable triple clamps, nice Beringer brakes and the lightest wheels I could find. There would be a small aluminum fuel tank, engine mods galore, the list goes on and on. For a real performing xs650 check out what Richard from Mule is building. But, that's not what I wanted to build. I'd rather just buy a newer Ducati designed by top rate engineers.
That being said, my bike will still deliver plenty of performance for cruising my winding back roads and tight small-city streets. It will be as tough, reliable and safe as possible. It's unique, and if you ask me, it's going to look great.

Progressing my fabrication abilities is my real drive, ending with something that I like to ride is just a bonus. Thanks for following!
 
Stock XS with 100/90x19 front is about 13.5" to centre of axle and gives roughly 7.5"~ 8" clearance
You can check where axle centre is now to get a fair idea of where things will end up 8)
I think it may be an optical illusion due to 'nose down' attitude in pictures?
 
ncologerojr said:
I am still deciding on if I am going to run the stock charging system on the xs, or if I am going to upgrade. There are a lot of good options out there, but unfortunately it all comes at a price $$$!

You certainly explored some options for the front end. I knew that I would have some challenges fitting the gsxr forks including ground clearance, but I think that it is going to work out.

If you reference this recent picture, you can see that the bike is supported by 2x4 cribbing. Currently there is 10" of cribbing under the rear of the frame with a flat rear tire, and the front end is not fully elevated to the correct ride height that it will have with the 19" front wheel and tire.



After the wheels and correct tires are on, minus suspension sag etc., I should be right around 9" of ground clearance if I am careful routing the exhaust and mounting the rearsets. That's good enough for my purposes
Click to expand...

If you end up with 9" of ground clearance that will be plenty!
 
crazypj said:
Stock XS with 100/90x19 front is about 13.5" to centre of axle and gives roughly 7.5"~ 8" clearance
You can check where axle centre is now to get a fair idea of where things will end up 8)
I think it may be an optical illusion due to 'nose down' attitude in pictures?
Click to expand...

Good observation, and interesting point.

I overlooked something and miscounted.

As it sits the (flat) rear tire is on the ground, I believe the front axle is about 10" up, and it is supported by 5 pieces of 2"x4".

As quick reference I just counted the five 2x4's as 10". However as the son of a builder I should have remembered that they probably measure closer to 1.5"x3". (My dad would be so disappointed.) So there is in fact only 7.5" below the frame currently.

Add the front wheel/tire height and inflated rear wheel and I am probably around 8-8.5". Subtract suspension sag for a total ride height of 7-7.5".

I believe, in my case, the difference in front fork length is offset just a bit by the decrease in rake. The stock rake is 27 degrees while I have adjusted mine to 24 degrees. So essentially the forks are shorter than stock, but also standing more vertical.

Obviously, I also regained some clearance by raising the rear end via the larger wheel/tire diameter and swingarm angle.

Overall, I think I'm still ok.

Good observation!
 
Started on my indexable rearsets today. They are made from 1 1/8" solid aluminum rod and 1/4" aluminum plate. The rear master cylinder is harley sportster to match the rear caliper and rotor.





 
crazypj said:
Isn't the footrest lower than stock position?
Click to expand...

I think they're about the same, the pics are funky. But after stepping back and taking a look at them I was planning on moving them up. I don't like how low the brake pedal sits either. They're only tacked so no big deal. It's difficult sometimes to keep clearance, and not make the rider too cramped...
 
Are those rearsets not going to interfere with your kicker? Maybe a folding peg would be a solution...
 
Just had a look at my XS, stock footrest is about level with center of kickstart shaft.
Most comfortable position for me would be about 7" further back and 3" higher than stock
I guess that would put them around 2" behind and 1" above swing arm pivot?
 
coyote13 said:
Are those rearsets not going to interfere with your kicker? Maybe a folding peg would be a solution...
Click to expand...

They were close to hitting, but a little coaxing with the torch provided the clearance needed.
 
Bars, seat, and footpegs. Where they should be is up to the individual, and opinions vary wildly of course. I'd guess I have scratch - built somewhere between 20 and 30 "rear sets" and hopefully have learned a bit about making them.

For me, the most important thing is to not lose sight of how critical all three things are determine all at once - the bars, seat and pegs are all one project for me - building one element without having at least a mock up of the others in place does not make sense to me. The driver is the other critical component since everyone is a different size and has different preferences.

I suggest that you mock up your expected seat height and then try out your peg location. Then keep adjusting until you get everything just right. The seat height usually seems to turn out to be the hardest to adjust, so make your best guess at that and mock it up so you can sit on it. Adjust your chassis so it is at the expected ride height with your best guess at suspension sag. Once you get a set of pegs tacked up (or clamped up , or even held up by wood blocks!), you can sit on it and get an idea of where you want the bars and pegs to go. For me, I spend a lot of time fooling around with the bars and then the pegs going back and forth changing them until I home in on exactly the right thing. The last guy I built a bike for definitely got impatient by the third visit to my shop getting his new bike "fitted" to him, but it paid in the end as he tells me practically every time I see him how comfortable and easy to ride his new bike is.

I don't have much in the way of "rules of thumb", but I will say that for rideability, pegs should be lower and farther forward and the bars should be higher than on a road race bike. Clip-ons are cool and fun but a lot of work on the street (I have them on one of my own bikes), and likewise with race location pegs (also on the same bike). Clip on bars vary quite a bit depending on the bike as to how high they are. The seat height is critical - bars at (like my bike) or below seat height are race bike territory, but on many bikes they can be a bit above seat height and be vastly more practical. The pegs on that bike are even with the swingarm pivot bolt and about 6" back. They are plenty high, at least from a scrape in cornering perspective (that includes the foot brake arm when depressed and my boot). I have long legs - an important factor. I love this bike and it is a blast to ride - for about 20 minutes - after that I start thinking about how far away from the barn I am.

Mock up the seat, bars, and pegs, and then sit on your bike, put your feet on the pegs, and grip the bars. Remain that way for 15 minutes - that would be a VERY short ride. After that, if you are confident you think it is perfect, start welding! Otherwise, adjust and repeat. I urge you to spend some time doing this, you likely can't make a good judgement hopping on your mock up for 2 minutes and thinking "that feels ok". See if you still say that after 15 minutes. 1" on the position of anything can make ALL the difference! Next year when you are riding it around, you will think it time well spent!

Going to be a beautiful bike - it should be as great to drive as it is to look at!
 
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