taylorericjohn
New Member
Hey I am in the midst of building a TS 185 myself. I would love to see if you have mad any progress
Stay cool
John
Stay cool
John
1972 TS185J
- Thread starter jaderd
- Start date
jaderd
Been Around the Block
another thing to slow down the bike progress.
grabbed this the other day, semi impulse buy but scored it for the price of a good tent! so im happy as
http://ditzygypsy.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=memor&thread=2180&page=1
grabbed this the other day, semi impulse buy but scored it for the price of a good tent! so im happy as
http://ditzygypsy.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=memor&thread=2180&page=1
jaderd
Been Around the Block
Ok quick update, havent been on for a while.
My daily "TS185" ebay search paid off, have been looking for a parts bike so as i have spares and the possibility of finding one with an OK bottom end.
Found this one today and quickly rang guy, scored for a low price.
even if motor shagged i score what looks to be a old bassani pipe ? and the kick starter and of course everything else as spares.
Quite happy at the moment
Also very excited as my wife is 13 weeks Pregnant ......so time to try and get things done before a baby arrives.
ebay add
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-Susuki-TS-185-/130919209181?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&_uhb=1&hash=item1e7b6498dd&nma=true&si=GWXNY%252BAW6qxgpt%252BI1A%252BKxv3dVo4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
My daily "TS185" ebay search paid off, have been looking for a parts bike so as i have spares and the possibility of finding one with an OK bottom end.
Found this one today and quickly rang guy, scored for a low price.
even if motor shagged i score what looks to be a old bassani pipe ? and the kick starter and of course everything else as spares.
Quite happy at the moment
Also very excited as my wife is 13 weeks Pregnant ......so time to try and get things done before a baby arrives.
ebay add
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-Susuki-TS-185-/130919209181?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&_uhb=1&hash=item1e7b6498dd&nma=true&si=GWXNY%252BAW6qxgpt%252BI1A%252BKxv3dVo4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
jaderd
Been Around the Block
Hi All,
Need some advice from the experts.
The bike i bought above scored me a nice exhaust & kick start that i needed and then all the various spares so worth the small outlay.
Pulled the barrel off, barrel is nice and neat, one cracked fin. The main crank bearing feels tight with no movement at all, though it is swimming in engine oil so there is a a gasket or seals gone somewhere.
I have decided i will take my time and rebuild an engine, questions is which one do i pick.
My orig one i know worked, all gears etc, its bottom end is gone (crank bearing) though no oil leak here, clean, just piston skirt debris inside.
Other engine the crank bearing feels very tight, though swimming in oil, does this straight away void the crank bearing making it useless ?
i know i have to use the same cases in regard to splitting them and putting back together, is the oil soaked crank / bearing / rod useable to transplant into my orig motor if one removed and cleaned of oil has zero movement ?
Any info / feedback would be appreciated as usual.
I also figured i would need a list of special type tools, i plan on playing with motorbikes and other motors all my life so dont mind outlaying for specific tools.
So far i have bought
Kincrome Impact screwdrive
Kincrome sliding T handle 1/2" so can use my sockets easier
Flywheel / Clutch locking Pulley holder.
i then hopped on Rocky Mountain ATV, a US site and compiled the below list of items that im thinking of getting, postage all up is $50 , same as ordering one of these items via ebay (total incl items $204). Main expensive items i figured i would need are the crankcase splitter and the bearing puller, grabbed other items as always handy to have on hand.
Does this sound like overkill "shop" tools wise or do most of you guys who do rebuilds own / have made these tools as it makes the whole job a hell of a lot easier and less chance of damaging things ?
Product Description Price Quantity Availability Notes Sub Total
FMF Pipe Spring Puller Tool
Part # 1046890001
$6.99 In Stock $6.99
Tusk 10 Piece Hex Key Wrench Set
Part # 1134030001
$15.99 In Stock $15.99
Tusk Crankcase Splitter/Separator
Part # 1177390001
$59.99 In Stock $59.99
Tusk Crank Bearing and Gear Puller Set
Part # 1195970001
$59.99 In Stock $59.99
Tusk Snap Ring/Circlip Pliers
Part # 1177370001
$6.99 In Stock $6
Need some advice from the experts.
The bike i bought above scored me a nice exhaust & kick start that i needed and then all the various spares so worth the small outlay.
Pulled the barrel off, barrel is nice and neat, one cracked fin. The main crank bearing feels tight with no movement at all, though it is swimming in engine oil so there is a a gasket or seals gone somewhere.
I have decided i will take my time and rebuild an engine, questions is which one do i pick.
My orig one i know worked, all gears etc, its bottom end is gone (crank bearing) though no oil leak here, clean, just piston skirt debris inside.
Other engine the crank bearing feels very tight, though swimming in oil, does this straight away void the crank bearing making it useless ?
i know i have to use the same cases in regard to splitting them and putting back together, is the oil soaked crank / bearing / rod useable to transplant into my orig motor if one removed and cleaned of oil has zero movement ?
Any info / feedback would be appreciated as usual.
I also figured i would need a list of special type tools, i plan on playing with motorbikes and other motors all my life so dont mind outlaying for specific tools.
So far i have bought
Kincrome Impact screwdrive
Kincrome sliding T handle 1/2" so can use my sockets easier
Flywheel / Clutch locking Pulley holder.
i then hopped on Rocky Mountain ATV, a US site and compiled the below list of items that im thinking of getting, postage all up is $50 , same as ordering one of these items via ebay (total incl items $204). Main expensive items i figured i would need are the crankcase splitter and the bearing puller, grabbed other items as always handy to have on hand.
Does this sound like overkill "shop" tools wise or do most of you guys who do rebuilds own / have made these tools as it makes the whole job a hell of a lot easier and less chance of damaging things ?
Product Description Price Quantity Availability Notes Sub Total
FMF Pipe Spring Puller Tool
Part # 1046890001
$6.99 In Stock $6.99
Tusk 10 Piece Hex Key Wrench Set
Part # 1134030001
$15.99 In Stock $15.99
Tusk Crankcase Splitter/Separator
Part # 1177390001
$59.99 In Stock $59.99
Tusk Crank Bearing and Gear Puller Set
Part # 1195970001
$59.99 In Stock $59.99
Tusk Snap Ring/Circlip Pliers
Part # 1177370001
$6.99 In Stock $6
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Crank seals are dead easy on TS motors
Run the oil pump or remove oil slinger on left bearing and drill oil hole in crankcase or bearings will fail again pretty quick
The oil slinger feeds oil to big end bearings but only of the 'Posilube' is working
I can't go into detail as I haven't rebuilt one since the 80's
I would make a pipe spring puller (in fact I have made several over the years)
Crankcase splitter is a good idea, it's possible to distort case and cause an air leak that can't be fixed (although I always used a Yamaha case tool rather than Suzuki one)
You can make it from 3/16" plate and use 6/8mm threaded rod (or 5mm if you use generator back plate threaded holes)
You only need circlip pliers to strip transmission although you will probably need them eventually for other parts
You WILL need a flywheel puller removing it with prybars, chisel, etc will damage if not destroy it
Run the oil pump or remove oil slinger on left bearing and drill oil hole in crankcase or bearings will fail again pretty quick
The oil slinger feeds oil to big end bearings but only of the 'Posilube' is working
I can't go into detail as I haven't rebuilt one since the 80's
I would make a pipe spring puller (in fact I have made several over the years)
Crankcase splitter is a good idea, it's possible to distort case and cause an air leak that can't be fixed (although I always used a Yamaha case tool rather than Suzuki one)
You can make it from 3/16" plate and use 6/8mm threaded rod (or 5mm if you use generator back plate threaded holes)
You only need circlip pliers to strip transmission although you will probably need them eventually for other parts
You WILL need a flywheel puller removing it with prybars, chisel, etc will damage if not destroy it
jaderd
Been Around the Block
Cheers forgot to mention i already bought a fly wheel puller a while ago.
In regard to engines to use, what do you think would be the cause for all the oil within the crank / bearing area ?
if just a seal, for this motor would it just be worth splitting, changing / fixing seal / gasket and refit.
Whilst my orig engine do a full rebuild on that via replacing crank bearings ?
The bike i just picked up the main crank bearing feels as if it has zero movement (will undertake further inspection)
where as my motor the main bearing is dead, mass movement up and down 1-2mm
In regard to engines to use, what do you think would be the cause for all the oil within the crank / bearing area ?
if just a seal, for this motor would it just be worth splitting, changing / fixing seal / gasket and refit.
Whilst my orig engine do a full rebuild on that via replacing crank bearings ?
The bike i just picked up the main crank bearing feels as if it has zero movement (will undertake further inspection)
where as my motor the main bearing is dead, mass movement up and down 1-2mm
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
seal behind main drive gear has probably failed, remove clutch cover, clutch, etc.
You probably have the 'lock pin' type clutch springs, need a spring puller for them.
As I said, I make one from 1/8" welding rod, still have one in toolbox I made at least 30 yrs ago
You probably have the 'lock pin' type clutch springs, need a spring puller for them.
As I said, I make one from 1/8" welding rod, still have one in toolbox I made at least 30 yrs ago
jaderd
Been Around the Block
sweet, think i will pull apart and check as you mentioned on this new engine i got.
If it is something as simple as this seal, do i just clean the excess oil out from in and around the main bearing / rod as best i can ?
does the fact it was swimming in oil ruin anything ?
or, due to the fact i am already going this far its best to replace other seals etc
cheers
If it is something as simple as this seal, do i just clean the excess oil out from in and around the main bearing / rod as best i can ?
does the fact it was swimming in oil ruin anything ?
or, due to the fact i am already going this far its best to replace other seals etc
cheers
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
The other seal is behind generator.
The oil is probably from transmission but could also be deliberate down plug hole to prevent corrosion.
Just tip engine upside down and let it all run out, as long as there is no water in there everything should be fine
Have you got a service manual yet?
The oil is probably from transmission but could also be deliberate down plug hole to prevent corrosion.
Just tip engine upside down and let it all run out, as long as there is no water in there everything should be fine
Have you got a service manual yet?
jaderd
Been Around the Block
Thanks CrazyPJ, it seemed to be identical oil in consistency and smell within the main bearing area as within the 2 stroke oil reservoir, so may be deliberate filling by someone for storage, or gravity / time allowing oil to fill from oil tank
In saying that to me it didn't seem like the two stoke oil I'm used to, could be due to sitting for ages or type of oil, it seemed more like engine oil. Donor bike does flick through gears ok, so if it only requires a top,end rebuild I think I will use this engine. I will take picks over next week or two as I take engine out and tip upside down / remove piston and really check out main bearing tolerance.
I will use my orig. engines side cases though as the donors bikes aren't in as good condition, the left side very outer flat cover must have been smashed at some point and is now made from a pop riveted piece of metal and sealant!, can sort of tell from pics above. Though from looking I can /will change the whole left side cover, not just the flat very outer cover also the main cover as donor bikes has/ will have pot rivet holes in it if I only replace the very outer cover.
I'm assuming from seeing them sold online etc that the outer covers ( clutch / fly wheel) are ok to interchange between bikes ? It's only the main cases that need to be a matching pair to ensure they seal perfect?
Thanks for all info and advice so far.
In saying that to me it didn't seem like the two stoke oil I'm used to, could be due to sitting for ages or type of oil, it seemed more like engine oil. Donor bike does flick through gears ok, so if it only requires a top,end rebuild I think I will use this engine. I will take picks over next week or two as I take engine out and tip upside down / remove piston and really check out main bearing tolerance.
I will use my orig. engines side cases though as the donors bikes aren't in as good condition, the left side very outer flat cover must have been smashed at some point and is now made from a pop riveted piece of metal and sealant!, can sort of tell from pics above. Though from looking I can /will change the whole left side cover, not just the flat very outer cover also the main cover as donor bikes has/ will have pot rivet holes in it if I only replace the very outer cover.
I'm assuming from seeing them sold online etc that the outer covers ( clutch / fly wheel) are ok to interchange between bikes ? It's only the main cases that need to be a matching pair to ensure they seal perfect?
Thanks for all info and advice so far.
jaderd
Been Around the Block
i used my brake bleeder to suck out the oil from in the crank area, as havent taken motor out of bike as yet but wanted to have a bit of a look at it.
Took off piston, the main bearing has zero up down movement which im very happy with, lets just hope the oil in their was preventative as storage or seeped in from oil lines - is there a best way to tell this ?
The oil had zero water in it and was identical to that from the oil reservoir
Here are some pics of the piston that came out of second bike.
i cant see any actual markings that its a Wiseco, im guessing due to the sticker on the tank that maybe they upgraded.
Its def not a stock suzuki piston as has no suzuki markings on inside (like my other orig on) but it does have TS185R on the inside of piston.
Piston appears in goodish nick, some blow by, not too much scoring, though it does have one mark where it appears to have maybe hit / scraped base of barrel at some point. The skirt has no cracks, although it does have a little flat spot on the four corners of the skirt, seems pretty uniform, not sure if from manufacturing or from being in bike ?
im a noob to pistons, but compared to my other orig one this one appears to have a slightly smaller diameter but the rings seem designed to "flare" out heaps more than the stock rings on other piston.
so some questions
what do ppl think this piston is? any specific wiseco markings ?
does it seem in ok condition
is it true the rings flare out further / better than orig piston / ring setup, whats the benefit if so ?
cheers
pics below
Took off piston, the main bearing has zero up down movement which im very happy with, lets just hope the oil in their was preventative as storage or seeped in from oil lines - is there a best way to tell this ?
The oil had zero water in it and was identical to that from the oil reservoir
Here are some pics of the piston that came out of second bike.
i cant see any actual markings that its a Wiseco, im guessing due to the sticker on the tank that maybe they upgraded.
Its def not a stock suzuki piston as has no suzuki markings on inside (like my other orig on) but it does have TS185R on the inside of piston.
Piston appears in goodish nick, some blow by, not too much scoring, though it does have one mark where it appears to have maybe hit / scraped base of barrel at some point. The skirt has no cracks, although it does have a little flat spot on the four corners of the skirt, seems pretty uniform, not sure if from manufacturing or from being in bike ?
im a noob to pistons, but compared to my other orig one this one appears to have a slightly smaller diameter but the rings seem designed to "flare" out heaps more than the stock rings on other piston.
so some questions
what do ppl think this piston is? any specific wiseco markings ?
does it seem in ok condition
is it true the rings flare out further / better than orig piston / ring setup, whats the benefit if so ?
cheers
pics below
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
That's some aftermarket piston but not Wiseco, it's cast and they are forged
Personally I wouldn't use it, not a very good casting, probably made in Taiwan many years ago when they were cheap and nasty (plus, that gouge across skirt will probably cause lower section to fall off in use)
The rings may just be in better condition than the others you have, they are like springs and can 'sag' over time. Suzuki gives a 'free end gap' (just measure opening) and a fitted gap, (put ring square in cylinder and measure with feeler gauge)
Personally I wouldn't use it, not a very good casting, probably made in Taiwan many years ago when they were cheap and nasty (plus, that gouge across skirt will probably cause lower section to fall off in use)
The rings may just be in better condition than the others you have, they are like springs and can 'sag' over time. Suzuki gives a 'free end gap' (just measure opening) and a fitted gap, (put ring square in cylinder and measure with feeler gauge)
jaderd
Been Around the Block
Cheers, thats all i needed to hear, just needed advice from someone with knowledge on whether the piston was any good.
now that i have sucked out the excess oil from the crank area is there an easy way to test whether the oil was from deliberate addition for preserving / oil line siphon in or damage ?
if i just fill the engine with oil via normal filling point and see if is seeps in ?
once i find out whether i need to fully rebuild bottom end (how oil got in / if damaged) i will move onto new top end.
Sorry for newb questions but what is process for working out size of next piston, vernier caliper on top / bottom of head, get average of many measurements then by piston next available size up and get barrel honed ?
will use barrel and head off this new bike as my orig one would be in worse nick i think .
now that i have sucked out the excess oil from the crank area is there an easy way to test whether the oil was from deliberate addition for preserving / oil line siphon in or damage ?
if i just fill the engine with oil via normal filling point and see if is seeps in ?
once i find out whether i need to fully rebuild bottom end (how oil got in / if damaged) i will move onto new top end.
Sorry for newb questions but what is process for working out size of next piston, vernier caliper on top / bottom of head, get average of many measurements then by piston next available size up and get barrel honed ?
will use barrel and head off this new bike as my orig one would be in worse nick i think .
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
It's only an hour to put everything together and run it, if it's still smoking after 30~40 mins could be a faulty seal on drive side.
I would probably strip everything down to check (because that's what I do ;D ) but assembling and removing again isn't a big deal with little two stroke motors.
I used to change big end and main bearings on them in about 4hrs (from 'dead' bike to runner)
Did so many Yamaha DT125/175 motors I could do them even quicker (Suzuki clutch takes longer to put together )
If you want to test though, block motor up so crankcase mouth is level and fill with parrafin (kerosene, not sure which term you use in Oz?)
leave overnight, see how far it drops, 1/8"~3/16" should be OK as you may get some evaporation, if it's halfway down, there is a problem (plus you can usually see where its coming from)
I would probably strip everything down to check (because that's what I do ;D ) but assembling and removing again isn't a big deal with little two stroke motors.
I used to change big end and main bearings on them in about 4hrs (from 'dead' bike to runner)
Did so many Yamaha DT125/175 motors I could do them even quicker (Suzuki clutch takes longer to put together
)If you want to test though, block motor up so crankcase mouth is level and fill with parrafin (kerosene, not sure which term you use in Oz?)
leave overnight, see how far it drops, 1/8"~3/16" should be OK as you may get some evaporation, if it's halfway down, there is a problem (plus you can usually see where its coming from)
