66 Ducati 250

joea

New Member
DTT BOTM WINNER

wide case mototrans….finished about 7 years ago. 66 monza done in 2009
 

SeekingZero

New Member
Wow, I am ashamed that I haven't updated this thread in so long. I apologize for getting everyone excited and then dropping off the face of the earth! Well, I supposed its time to try and redeem myself. I shall start by giving you all the latest updates. As of the last post, I had the money, motivation, but no time. I am happy to announce that I now also have the time!! I'm also back in California which helps immensely as well. I've lucked into an amazing living arrangement with two old racers that has worked out so wonderfully. However, we do currently have 8 motorcycles in the garage and so, even though I have a garage to work in, trying to complete a restoration in it was another matter entirely.

Therefore, I started looking around for some shop space that I could rent or use to do my work. Back in 2012, a place called Moto Shop opened up in South San Francisco. Moto Shop was a company that would rent or own large shop space as a base for a community motorcycle garage where anyone can work on their motorcycle, or take a workshop and learn how for a hourly, daily, weekly, or monthly rate. I looked them up again and wouldn't you know they changed their name to Moto Guild and opened a San Jose location (much closer to me)! Shop space solved. http://www.motoguild-sv.com/

Last Saturday, I went and hooked up my trailer, with the 250 still sleeping inside, and drove about 15 minutes North to Hayward to meet with Chris Quinn, master wheel builder and vintage Ducati legend.



He remembered me and the bike and I spent 4 hours there with him, discussing the bike, tearing open the motor (for the first time!) and searching through is shop of endless old Ducati parts for some of the bits I still needed. We took off the clutch side cover, bevel side cover, and eventually slid the cylinder up to get a peak down below. What we found was incredible!





The crank was shiny and new, the valves and guides were all new and modified topped off with a high compression piston. The engine was built, and very well done, but had never been fired! We were able to figure out why too. Before we took the cylinder off, we rotated the motor a bit an kept hearing a consistent clunk. As we figured, the top of the piston was hitting the valves since the piston isn't stock. We took a walk into Chris' shop, he pulled out one of many cylinder shims in a drawer handed it to me and said, "take the cylinder off, put this under it, and put it back on." How awesome is that! Speaking of his shop, I snapped some photos of this vintage restorers wet dream...






After pulling a table full of parts out of all his stock, he tallied up what he wanted for everything, I handed him a few bills and was out of there with a ton of much needed and very hard to find pieces for an incredibly reasonable price. I'll post up the parts later on. With the bike, and my new box of parts, loaded up, I left for San Jose and Moto Guild. Moto Guild Silicon Valley opened in July of 2015 and is still very much getting started. The man running the show is Patrick and he is a very nice guy who was more than excited to have the little 250 in the shop. Turns out that he is also from Illinois and went to Eastern Illinois University, in the town I used to live in and owned my first house in for 4 years! Small world.





And I almost forgot, before I left Illinois, I was able to title the bike as a 1966 Ducati 250 Mark III (MK3 or MKIII). Regardless how the various pieces may have began life, the bike that I will own at the end of this restoration will look like the image below of the bike it is titled as!

 

SeekingZero

New Member
I went down to the shop today for a few hours tonight. By the time I left, I had the entire motorcycle disassembled, all but the engine since it doesn't need it.







Ditching the old tires...


Things to do:
-put in kickstarter assembly
-shim cylinder head
-cut ground on stator to convert from 6V to 12V
-soda blast motor
-paint motor
-send side covers, hubs, and other bits off to be polished
-send wheels off to be rebuilt
-buy tires
-send frame off to be bead blasted
-sand blast bits that fit into cabinet
-clean and seal gas tank
-send cleaned up parts to Bobby Keith for painting
-clean up and rebuild suspension
-rebuild brakes
-buy other bits I need

Much more to come!
 

DesmoDog

Member
Looks like a fun project!

I understand the delay in getting things done. My long dormant 250 Monza => 350 Bitsa is also finally seeing progress again after a few years of sitting.
 

CarbsAndCylinders

Careful With That Axe Eugene
Such beautiful bikes in this thread. The Italians could make a toilet plunger be a work of art and these restorations are a great testament to that.
 

Tune-A-Fish

BOTM LOSER Proudly Deplorable
I'm well on my way to collecting the parts for one... This is what I have so far.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Texasstar

Can't is a four letter dirty word
SeekingZero said:
Wow, I am ashamed that I haven't updated this thread in so long. I apologize for getting everyone excited and then dropping off the face of the earth! Well, I supposed its time to try and redeem myself. I shall start by giving you all the latest updates. As of the last post, I had the money, motivation, but no time. I am happy to announce that I now also have the time!! I'm also back in California which helps immensely as well. I've lucked into an amazing living arrangement with two old racers that has worked out so wonderfully. However, we do currently have 8 motorcycles in the garage and so, even though I have a garage to work in, trying to complete a restoration in it was another matter entirely.

Therefore, I started looking around for some shop space that I could rent or use to do my work. Back in 2012, a place called Moto Shop opened up in South San Francisco. Moto Shop was a company that would rent or own large shop space as a base for a community motorcycle garage where anyone can work on their motorcycle, or take a workshop and learn how for a hourly, daily, weekly, or monthly rate. I looked them up again and wouldn't you know they changed their name to Moto Guild and opened a San Jose location (much closer to me)! Shop space solved. http://www.motoguild-sv.com/

Last Saturday, I went and hooked up my trailer, with the 250 still sleeping inside, and drove about 15 minutes North to Hayward to meet with Chris Quinn, master wheel builder and vintage Ducati legend.



He remembered me and the bike and I spent 4 hours there with him, discussing the bike, tearing open the motor (for the first time!) and searching through is shop of endless old Ducati parts for some of the bits I still needed. We took off the clutch side cover, bevel side cover, and eventually slid the cylinder up to get a peak down below. What we found was incredible!





The crank was shiny and new, the valves and guides were all new and modified topped off with a high compression piston. The engine was built, and very well done, but had never been fired! We were able to figure out why too. Before we took the cylinder off, we rotated the motor a bit an kept hearing a consistent clunk. As we figured, the top of the piston was hitting the valves since the piston isn't stock. We took a walk into Chris' shop, he pulled out one of many cylinder shims in a drawer handed it to me and said, "take the cylinder off, put this under it, and put it back on." How awesome is that! Speaking of his shop, I snapped some photos of this vintage restorers wet dream...






After pulling a table full of parts out of all his stock, he tallied up what he wanted for everything, I handed him a few bills and was out of there with a ton of much needed and very hard to find pieces for an incredibly reasonable price. I'll post up the parts later on. With the bike, and my new box of parts, loaded up, I left for San Jose and Moto Guild. Moto Guild Silicon Valley opened in July of 2015 and is still very much getting started. The man running the show is Patrick and he is a very nice guy who was more than excited to have the little 250 in the shop. Turns out that he is also from Illinois and went to Eastern Illinois University, in the town I used to live in and owned my first house in for 4 years! Small world.





And I almost forgot, before I left Illinois, I was able to title the bike as a 1966 Ducati 250 Mark III (MK3 or MKIII). Regardless how the various pieces may have began life, the bike that I will own at the end of this restoration will look like the image below of the bike it is titled as!

does this model have a jellymold? The proportions look off??? Looking forward to your build. My sons dream bike is a jellymold Ducati.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

SeekingZero

New Member
DesmoDog said:
Looks like a fun project!

I understand the delay in getting things done. My long dormant 250 Monza => 350 Bitsa is also finally seeing progress again after a few years of sitting.
I saw your thread revived as well! Your build definite looks promising and I hope all the customization turns out the way you want! I'm glad to not be doing any customizing this time around. Turns out that the "half-stock" picture is actually a completely stock Mach 1/Mark 3. So I will essentially just be doing a restoration that will happen to be cafe-esque!

Texasstar said:
does this model have a jellymold? The proportions look off??? Looking forward to your build. My sons dream bike is a jellymold Ducati.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The 250's and other cc models did come with jellymold tanks, but those are older bikes. The red 160 in one of the photos of Chris Quinn's shop is an example of an older model Ducati with a jellymold tank.
 

doc_rot

Oh the usual... I bowl, I drive around...
DTT SUPPORTER
DTT BOTM WINNER
Cool project. That Moto Guild place is literally 3 blocks from my house. I think i would sign up if they had some fabrication tools.
 

DesmoDog

Member
SeekingZero said:
Turns out that the "half-stock" picture is actually a completely stock Mach 1/Mark 3. So I will essentially just be doing a restoration that will happen to be cafe-esque!
That's what I thought when I first saw it, but it hasn't got the right foot peg/kickstart/brake lever set up for a Mach 1. I'd bet dollars to donuts it's a "Mock 1"... nothing wrong with that though.
 

SeekingZero

New Member
doc_rot said:
Cool project. That Moto Guild place is literally 3 blocks from my house. I think i would sign up if they had some fabrication tools.
That's awesome! You should stop by. The place is still new and the more business it gets, the more fab stuff we can get! We are going to be doing soda blasting this weekend.

DesmoDog said:
That's what I thought when I first saw it, but it hasn't got the right foot peg/kickstart/brake lever set up for a Mach 1. I'd bet dollars to donuts it's a "Mock 1"... nothing wrong with that though.
Nothing wrong with that at all. Mine will be a Mock 1 too! ;) But I don't plan on leaving mine as a garage queen, I plan to ride it!
 

SeekingZero

New Member
This week's update:

I dropped the frame and a bunch of other large bits off at my powder coater on Saturday to be sand blasted so they are ready for paint. I also to the wheels and hubs and will drop them off with Chris Quinn at Motorcycle Wheel Works in Hayward to have him work his magic.


With all of that out of the shop, all I had was the motor to work on. I still have to put the kickstarter assembly back in the motor, but without the clutch holder tool, I can't yet. So I spun it around and took a look at my points assembly.


The condenser is shot and I needed to clean up the rest to see what I was working with. I dropped it all and a few other things into my ultrasonic cleaner and waited.




The cleaner did it job wonderfully and so I put it all back together minus the condenser. I wasn't entirely happy with the state of the rest of the points parts so I ended up ordering an entirely new assembly since I needed a new condenser anyway. Next, I got to work on the outside of the motor to clean it up. I got some baking soda and started to make a mess...



It cleaned up pretty well. I'll finish prepping the engine for paint the next time I'm there. The first round of parts have been ordered so that I can complete the motor. I was also able to source some original fenders off of a Mach 1. As soon as I get the fenders, I'll be able to take it all to my painter! More to come.
 

SeekingZero

New Member
This week's update:

I got the frame, tank, and other parts back from being blasted. Now I'm just waiting on fenders and the reg bracket so I can send it all for paint.


I've been back to Moto Guild about every day that it's open to work on various parts. I started cleaning up old parts to see what was going to be restorable and what I needed to replace. Between the ultrasonic cleaner, a wire wheel, and some metal polish, I've been able to make that determination easy!



I also got a clutch holder tool so that I could take apart the clutch side to install the kickstarter assembly and rewire the stator. Still waiting on the flywheel puller...




Once I get that I can button the motor back up and start on the suspension. I am going to shoot the motor with a coat of silver paint because although the cases are aluminum, I can't get them to clean up nicely and I don't know why. They should just be a nice uniform silver, but they are blotched with darker areas and marks. Maybe they just aren't clean enough. Oh well.

Last Saturday, I stopped by to see Chris Quinn again, picked up an original speedo and cable drive, VHB29C carb, and some other miscellaneous parts. He also had pre-polished cases that he would swap for cores and the cost of polishing. I got the right side plates and will need to get the rest later. So onto the carb...

Looks just a bit dirty, bottom cover nicely polished. Let's see what's inside!



Wow.

It took me a while to get it to this state. Lots of carb cleaner and WD-40. The float wouldn't even move for over an hour. All the parts have now been through the ultrasonic cleaner and cleaned up wonderfully!


I ended up having to cut the float off to get the pin out. Carb rebuild kit, float, and other goodies all ordered. And finally, I took out all the case and side cover bolts, wire wheeled them shiny to prep for nickel plating. I hope to try that this week. The shinier they are before plating, the brighter the nickel!
 

DesmoDog

Member
SeekingZero said:
This week's update:

I got the frame, tank, and other parts back from being blasted. Now I'm just waiting on fenders and the reg bracket so I can send it all for paint.
Ya didn't pull the swingarm (or center stand or bearing cups) before blasting it? I'd be worried about grit around the swingarm pivot. Sand blasing is nasty, if you leave any place for the media to hide you'll be dealing with it for ages... You need to pull that stuff to paint teh frame anyway. Also, I'd push the pivot out of the brake lever and lube everything up before reassembly to make it easier to remove the lever next time. I've had to cut the arm off one or two of those they were so seized up.

The shots of the engine have me itching to get to work on mine. I'm getting pretty close to where I can pull mine and start the refurb on it. I haven't decided how far to get into it though, I may mod it or I may just get it running again for now. I'm trying to save up some money for an 851... non-essential spending on the 350 has been suspended for the moment.

I'm not sure about the spots on your engine cases. My 160 cases weren't perfect either, but in use they get a lived in look pretty quickly anyway so it didn't bother me. FWIW judging by those pics yours look ok to me. Hit them with some aluminum wheel cleaner worked in with a stainless steel brush and they'll be fine. They will look even better the day after you do it. Along the way I used two different types of wheel cleaner and some carb cleaner on mine, in combination with the stainless brushes. This isn't the greatest pic of them but it gives a general idea of what they ended up looking like.



Sidecover bolts - I buy stainless versions from somewhere like Boltdepot.com.

And finally, you've probably already been told this, but do NOT brace that new clutch tool on the kickstart shaft. Trust me on that one.
 

SeekingZero

New Member
DesmoDog said:
Ya didn't pull the swingarm (or center stand or bearing cups) before blasting it? I'd be worried about grit around the swingarm pivot. Sand blasing is nasty, if you leave any place for the media to hide you'll be dealing with it for ages... You need to pull that stuff to paint teh frame anyway. Also, I'd push the pivot out of the brake lever and lube everything up before reassembly to make it easier to remove the lever next time. I've had to cut the arm off one or two of those they were so seized up.

I'm not sure about the spots on your engine cases. My 160 cases weren't perfect either, but in use they get a lived in look pretty quickly anyway so it didn't bother me. FWIW judging by those pics yours look ok to me. Hit them with some aluminum wheel cleaner worked in with a stainless steel brush and they'll be fine. They will look even better the day after you do it. Along the way I used two different types of wheel cleaner and some carb cleaner on mine, in combination with the stainless brushes.
No, I had them cover the bearing ends before blasting, I may end up taking it apart and ensuring everything moves well before painting. And like you said, I may need to have it pulled to paint anyway. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

As far as the cases go, I have hit them with everything I've got, and its just not to my standards. But, I was talking with an old airhead restorer and they use Rub 'n Buff over the engines if they can't clean up as nicely as they want. This sounds like the ticket! Check out the thread from ADVrider.
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/rub-n-buff-aluminum-or-pewter.838392/#post-19956746

I already got a nickel plating kit and I really want to see how it works out. I have and can replace any bolts with stainless allenhead if I'm not happy with the nickel plating. I'm looking forward to seeing your progress as well! I plan to have mine on the road by May!
 

SeekingZero

New Member
A lot has happened in the last couple weeks. I've been by to see Chris a couple more times to get more parts. I also dropped off the wheels to be rebuilt by him. He will also have the hubs polished and I swapped him my side covers for some nice already polished ones.

In other news, I got the flywheel puller, removed the flywheel, and rewired the stator to 12V. I broke the ground between the two windings here:



Then layed them over a coil, not touching, and epoxied them down. Finally, I soldered in new leads to a homemade "harness", if you would call two wires a harness! Still trying to find a better, thicker sheathing to use.



With the stator finished, I reassembled all that and moved on to modifying the kickstarter assembly. Apparently these old Ducati's where notorious for having slipping kickstarters due to an 'engineering flaw'. Luckily there is the simple fix of drilling and threading another bolt into the main engine case as depicted in the guide below!
http://www.motoscrubs.com/Narrowcase_Kick_Start_Repair/Narrowcase_Kick_Start_Repair.htm

Chris had given me all the parts years ago so, with great care, I began.






Unfortunately, after all that I still have an issue with the face gear not engaging...but I'll sort that out later. You might have noticed the damage to the case in some of the images. That is from the kickstarter gear not having enough surface area to adequately stop on the case stub, so it eventually breaks off pieces of case, kick by kick. Again, there's a fix for that!





I also finished cleaning up the carb that was, if you recall, dirty on the outside and filthy on the inside.

Before:


After:


Before:


After:
 

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