Don't Leave Lights/Ignitiona on or You'll Kill Antigravity Battery

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vibration

Been Around the Block
So paid the big bucks for an 8-cell Antigravity battery and tucked it into its freshly welded compact well. As we wired up the lights the battery ran down...onto the special LiPo charger it went. But the voltage wouldn't come up beyond 8 or 9 volts. Called support and they said we had killed the battery and there was no remedy but to buy a new one. Does this strike anyone as 1.) surprising and/or 2.) an unsustainable business model?...Leave your lights or ignition on and you've got a $219 door stop?
 
Re: Don't Leave Lights/Ignitiona on or You'll Kill Antigravity Battery

That's how the battery chemistry works - and the battery instructions are pretty clear on that point. Lithium batteries of this type do not discharge past a certain point and then charge back up.
 
Lithium batteries suck ass; they're finicky about how you load 'em, they can explode if you charge them wrong and even if you treat them right they're not going to last very long; as rich said it's the batteries chemestry that's responsible for this and there's no way around it. I've worked with all available battery types and lithium is the absolute last choice for a vehicle. It makes sense in a cell phone or laptop where everyone wants to be slimer and they fully expect you to trash it in two years anyway, but for a motorcycle it's just a gimick. Lead acid batteries are much more forgiving, i use a lead acid battery for an atv it's small enough to hide and if i need to replace it its $30 at any autoparts store. I'm all for the slick look and not wanting to see the battery but this is plenty small enough for me; if i was looking to go smaller i've used NiMh batteries from r/c cars before, same idea as lithium much more forgiving and a lot cheaper with a slightly lower power density
 
If you treat them as they need to be treated, they will last for years. Unfortunately, too many times they are put into a bike as the test battery, or without updating the charging system to suit their very limited charging range.

I have one that didn't make as good a battery as a doorstop because I thought my system was up to snuff, and I was wrong. I will eventually move back to an 8-cell LiFePo battery because the alternative on my bike is to have a very large battery box hanging from the side.
 
What i was referring to is the fact that because of the chemestry of a lithium battery it will brake down and die over time no mater how well you treat it or even if you're not using it at all; they can last for years but they will break down. I'm a fan of your build and see exactly what you mean about the battery box, i'm pretty sure the battery i'm using is quite a bit smaller i'm using this battery because my bike has no kickstart :-( otherwise i'd use rc car batteries luckily my battery will fit nicely tucked up under the rear of the tank.
 
Re: Don't Leave Lights/Ignitiona on or You'll Kill Antigravity Battery

That's true for *any* battery, though.
 
Well i suppose so to some degree; i just don't like the idea that if my bike gets parked for a few years i wouldn't be able to ride it without ordering a new battery versus just putting it on the charger. I admit that perhaps i'm being a bit silly about it but i just don't see enough of a reason to justify using it over the oldshool lead acid batteries.
 
Ive somehow managed to run down my lithium battery twice now. Once to 9 volts and once to 3 volts. I put it on the charger after the 3 volt mishap, and is been holding steady at 13.36 volts for two weeks now. Now I have no idea how it will operate while in use and that makes me nervous. Fortunately they invented kick starting. As much as they cost there should be some sort of gold or something inside them to salvage, or at least some sort of butthurt creme to make it not feel as bad when they fail...but I digress...I could either be lucky at this point that its holding steady or I could be in for a midnight episode of pushing my bike home. Guess we'll find out.
 
As it happens I killed my small Shorai in the XS. I must have left the ignition on (which means I might have similarly fried my Pamco ignition).

Tried charging it to no avail. Nothing. Thankfully it's one of the smallest ones they make, but still a $100 mistake. Before I drop $100 on another one I'd likely spend $300 on a PMA for the XS and install one of my capacitors.
 
Tim said:
As it happens I killed my small Shorai in the XS. I must have left the ignition on (which means I might have similarly fried my Pamco ignition).

Tried charging it to no avail. Nothing. Thankfully it's one of the smallest ones they make, but still a $100 mistake. Before I drop $100 on another one I'd likely spend $300 on a PMA for the XS and install one of my capacitors.
Click to expand...

Whats the story with the capacitors? Looks like I'm going to keep the battery box for the near future, but eventually I'd like to do a clean tail tuck.
 
When a bike is running, it in general produces enough energy to keep the lights on. When it revs, it generates more than enough and the extra voltage goes to charging the battery.

But to start the bike, you need some extra juice. Your electric starter or kicker doesn't spin the engine fast enough or for enough revolutions to generate the energy it needs to fire. So the battery comes into play to provide that juice to the coils.

A helps in that case, but you also need a Permanent Magnet Alternator charging system which generates far more power than the typical stator setup most bikes have. Don't ask me how or why.

The SR500 has a PMA from the factory, and as such you can remove the battery and replace it with a capacitor. Stores enough energy to keep the lights lit when the bike is idling. A friend of mine rides his around Toronto like that with no problems.

To run an XS650 without a battery, you need to install an aftermarket PMA kit.

A capacitor's advantage over a battery is just size/weight. This was more of an issue in the past when we didn't have these fancy tiny lightweight lithium batteries. But they're prone to failure, and as such a more reliable PMA investment for those who can, coupled with a capacitor is a perhaps better long term investment than a $100-$300 battery that can become a doorstop easily.
 
The CB360 and CB350 have permanent magent alternators, but they don't put out all that much either. AT idle, they need the battery powwer, they don't really go positive until about 2500 RPM....The CB350 is rated 110 Watts at 5000 RPM, the CB360 is rated 130 Watts at 5k RPM, Rick's motorsports high capacity stator is rated 150 Watts.. At 14.4 volts, that's 7.5 amps, 9.0 amps, and 10.4 amps respectively at 5k RPM

Ignition draws 3-4 amps, headlight about 3.5 amps, plus the other little lights, and you can see the system barely breaks even.

From the Shorai FAQ list:

media.nl


You can see you need an excellent charging system to keep the voltage of the battery up.

Here's the FAQ from AntiGravity:

The Antigravity Battery normal voltage is 13.2v. The battery will read up to 14.7V immediately after charging. The normal operating range will read between 13.3-14.5V. After a few hours it will self balance to the 13.3-7 range which is its normal state of charge. The maximum voltage the battery should be exposed to is 14.7V. On the lower end of the voltage range the battery should be put on a charger if the battery voltage gets drops below the 12.5V range while sitting. The voltage should not be allowed to drop below 10.5V while at rest. Permanent damage will occur at below 10.5 volts..
Click to expand...

None of these batteries like being discharged and will usually not reccover if allowed to go dead. Even after recovery, they will have reduced AH ratings .....

If I kill a LEad Acid battery, $37 will get a new one. If a I Kill the Li battery, you all know the cost....

For the price of a Li battery, I can get 4 or 5 Lead Acid batteries...
 
It's just odd to hear that the stock charging systems are so inadequate. Those truly were simpler times...lol
 
My XS runs on a single 10A fuse (custom wired). My stock 1975 BMW R75/6 runs on two 8A ceramic fuses. That's it. Simpler times indeed :)
 
Good news! Antigravity was able to save (restore to health) a brand new 8-cell I thought I had wasted while wiring up new lights and ignition. Just came back fully charged and tested...no cost...woo hoo!
 
Let the batt run dead again, and it's done....

It's almost as easy to ruin a conventional battery, as they don;t like being run dead either. But it is much cheaper to replace the conventional one. My Batteries Plus battery was $37 out the door (would of been $32, but I didn't have a trade in battery to reclaim the core charge of $5).

The cost of One Li based battery buys quite a few $37 batteries.
 
Yeah. I killed mine for a third time and now its gone forever. Charger attempted to tend it for about an hour. I'm thinking the .25 Volts it's got aren't going to do much for me...
 
Don't Leave Lights/Ignitiona on or You'll Kill Antigravity Battery

I am not against the Li Chem batteries, despite how it looks

But seems many people get there priorities out of order.

1. Get the engine running well before modding. Then you know if the mod worked.
2 get you electrical system working properly before putting a sensitive battery in, ruining it because you run it dead fixing the electrical system.

3 after getting the engine right and electrical system right, mod the rest as you see fit.

4 don't do steps 1 - 3 unless you have the title to the bike. A clean one.

To many sad stories of investment of time and money into a bike that won't run or can't be registered.




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