Ducati yamaha TR1 rear end

Bosch

New Member
Hello all,

Ive had the silly idea of taking on a ducati swing arm swap so thought id get some advice and document how I get on! So far, just choosing between swing arms. Ive been looking at a 1098 or the 848. The difference between the two is the size of the hub. 180 tire for the 848 and 190 for the 1098. Ive been thinking about the offset of the engine sproket so I think the 848 (180) sized tire might be the way to go so the offset isnt too crazy. what does everyone think?

I want to use the stock shock locaton so will have to weld on new mounting points on the swing arm to match the original TR1. Something I also have to think about is the bearing on the swing arm itself as its mounted on the outside but im going to be mounting it from the inside like the original swing arm, but will deal with this closer to the time. Something I have to find a machine shop to help with as I havent much ali welding experiance.

The lower frame on the TR1 (which ive already removed to weld in a new battery box) has a 16mm pivot axle. The 848 from what i can see online is 19.5 (can measure this properly when i get it) so might be a bit tight squeezing in some bearings and the axle. So I think this is going to need some mods. My thought was to cut out the original swing arm tube and weld in a larger diameter. if i can avoid doing this the better would prefer maybe to make end inserts and welding them in with some bearings. Ideas welcome!

Suzamagati is what I’m after as the front end is a suzuki

Thats about it for now. ideas and help welcome!
 

teazer

Over 1,000 Posts
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I would suggest that if you are asking those questions, you should probably not go ahead. Welding in a new pivot is not impossible but needs a good machinist, a great welder with jigs to hold the parts and ability to ensure it's all square and the certifications to certify the safety of that modification.

Much as I also like the way that Ducati simngl;e sided swingarms look, I would not want to try that particular modification. I haven't looked too closely at Triumph single sided arms, but one of those might make for an easier and less risky swap.
 

Bosch

New Member
Fresh delivery of an the 848 swing arm so it’s the smaller wheel size of 180. Need to take a few measurements and order a few other odds and ends like the caliper and wheel, there’s a few options so not sure which wheel yet, quite like the 5 spoke on the 916 which i think will look better with the suzuki 3 spoke I've got on the front.

I was thinking of a dog leg on the original mounting point but there isn't much space, so I've got to find someone/machine shop that can weld in some chunky new shock mounts. I’m going to 3D print some parts to get an idea of fitting and positioning.

Ive got the lower frame out already because Im welding in a battery box. This also gives me a good opportunity to work out if i need to make a new axle.

I agree teazer i would prefer not to cut out the pivot. hoping I can press in bigger bearings, but need to assess this when im next at the lock up.
 

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Popeye SXM

Also used for MX
Classified Moto have done it. There will be some machining as I think they made their own swing arm bolt. I have a TR1 which I intend (one day, some day) to fit a 916 rear and R1 front but I will build my own frame. Good luck :)
 

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Bosch

New Member
Thanks Popeye think I might need it! thats a different swing arm than the one i just got. I think it looks a little too long for what im after, does look smart tho! I pinged them an email last week for some advice but sadly no reply. Ive got a GSXR front end on mine does look pretty mean, think the new swing arm will finish it off nicely.

These are the wheels im looking at. any favourites?
 

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doc_rot

Oh the usual... I bowl, I drive around...
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top hat bushings to take up the difference between ducati bearings and TR1 axle is how most swaps go. the other issue you may run into the the pivot width
 

Bosch

New Member
top hat bushings to take up the difference between ducati bearings and TR1 axle is how most swaps go. the other issue you may run into the the pivot width
Yeah that’s a good idea. Ill make a couple rough ones and test it out. At least the lower frame might only need a light modification. I did think I’d have to make a new pivot axle so have ordered some stainless stock. The Ducati one is crazy light! I still haven’t been back to see the bike since Ive bought the swing arm. Just gathering parts currently and working on some new rear set mounts.
 

Bosch

New Member
Wheel has been ordered! 5 spoke from a multistrada 1000. After a lot of researching I’m pretty sure it will clear the brake caliper, can make spacers if needed, Worst case sell it and get a stock 848 wheel! I’ve mocked up an idea for a ‘bolt on’ solution for new shock mounting pointon the printer. I didn’t have any m10 bolts that were long enough so excuse the scalpel!

Hopefully head to the lock up next week to test fit it.
 

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Bosch

New Member
Have a wheel! Been doing a few odds and ends such as the hydraulic clutch and battery box but it’s quite hard getting to the lock up without transport! I brought the lower sub frame home so I can give it a quick eye up to see how it’s going to fit and get some measurements. So now for the hard part. Im planning on using the swing arm pivot off the Ducati, will need to press out the bearings in the frame as this doesn't need them, all the bearings are on the swing arm. Im going to make some top hat bushing or just press in a tube that will accommodate the new pivot size of 20mm easy enough on the lathe.

Next, I have a slight fear of offset now, looking very roughly it looks like I need to take loads off the frame..

82B5570A-AD62-48F1-AF5E-BCF8A384ED12.jpg

So this is it without frame mods, I new I was going to have to take it down some what would never be that easy! the middle of the wheel should be closer to the middle of the lower frame.

A6BB0741-4FC0-4F49-B9B4-EC56156FF4F3.jpg

This is it lined up roughly in the middle of the wheel to the middle of the lower frame. Which I think is where the centre lines up on the TR from the old swingarm. Something I need check.

Anyway. I’m a little concerned about how far over it needs to sit. Something to mull over till I find a way of getting everything together. What would be ideal is to make a lower frame but I haven't the expertise.

heres the frame. You can see on the right side where I need to take it right down maybe passed the rest of the frame.

37FB3CE8-D8EA-46AA-916F-9908C7C91FCC.jpeg


1AB30C9C-65D2-4E28-B289-BC32C964C3CD.jpg

This is the wheel from a multistrada 1000, i think they have the same offset at the stock wheel.
 
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Bosch

New Member
At a bit of standstill as I can’t get to the lock up... hope everyone is surviving.

Got some stainless delivered to make the top hat bushings which I’m going to press into the frame. Printed some plastic ones to get the measurements right and for mock up.

As I have time on my hands at the moment I’m trying to make a cad (unfortunately I have got a 3D scanner) of the lower frame if I end up making one from scratch. I was thinking I could make a jig and tack a frame then get someone with a TIG to finish it off. Or send the 3d printed model to someone to make.
 

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Bosch

New Member
Some progress. I’ve ordered a new YSS shock. I was thinking about alternative shocks for a while like the R1 and then making an extension for it but thought that I get something that matches the original length just to take one part of the equation out of the mix.

I’ve also bought a new TIG, parweld 212 so that fun!

So progress. Got the swing seem and wheel to the lock up. Must have looked mental on the train!
like I’ve said i was trying to figure out if I should make the lower frame or modify the existing one. Well tried out both today.

It looks like it’s going to be better to make it from scratch.. I’ve got a few thing to adjust on what I’ve made but the wheel lines up pretty close. I couldn’t line it up probably without the new shock but it’s just a very rough test fit. Look like I’ll need a about 3cm offset sprocket

6B6FCCD8-C81A-4264-A42E-7CD388E77FA2.jpeg
 

Coxbow

Active Member
Sick combination !

Nice to have a chain transmission isn't it !

About the offset, the" OEM doesn't have both wheel aligned anyway, so if you're approximately aligned it should be ok.
 

JAGspeed

Been Around the Block
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Really great build nice work. Almost did a single side on my XV920R but went a different route. Going to look cool. Keep up the great work.
 

Bosch

New Member
Thanks Coxbow and JAGspeed!, definitely wouldn't have gone down this path if it was a shafty!

Thats useful info! thanks! as im making the lower frame its given me plenty of wiggle room to get it all lined up. Unfortunately i don't have a 3D scanner! so getting everything lined up is quite the time consuming!

The next part is the new mounting point for the swing arm, this is the current idea. My concern is that theres going to be some pretty serious forces going on from the new shock mount point to the shock,

anyway heres some pictures!

This part connects the two original shock mounting points on the swing arm then extends to mount to the shock, oh bought a new shock!
IMG_0603.jpg


Ignore the plastic here this was to measure up and test the first idea! its just to show the the two mounting points
IMG_8885.jpg


You can see what im trying to do here, I like the idea of a bolt on set up think it looks pretty cool. So you can see here where the new swing arm mount need to be roughly. Do you guys think the bolt on set up above would be able to handle the forces?

Otherwise I would need to find someone that can weld big chunks of ali to the the swing arm.
IMG_0563.jpg


Quite like the new shock, has about 10mm of movement in it which is nice plus dampening and preload adjustment. It matches the stock length as well.
 

Coxbow

Active Member
Your part ( probably took over a day to print ! ) looks beefy enough, it will depend in what material you're going to order it !
 

Bosch

New Member
Your part ( probably took over a day to print ! ) looks beefy enough, it will depend in what material you're going to order it !
Thought id leave it plastic! Should be alright?.. 6 hours! so not too bad! not much detail so had it on a fast print.
Well was thinking of getting milled from a solid block of stainless or ali.
 

DuckStew

Active Member
From here (my caveat), looks like a sound approach. The forces inside the Ducati arm were designed for a more downward force than you would be applying, but I doubt that would matter much.
 

Bosch

New Member
Agreed DuckStew, Im using high tensile steel bots on mounts and the new part has a lip that butts up to the swing arm so it can't rotate which I think will alleviate some of the forces. I will make it a bit more hefty as its just a test to check alignment before getting it made in metal (probably aluminium?)

Found this on youtube! Looks like a different approached using a modified lower frame, Can see the new welded on shock mount.

IMG_8926.png
 

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