How I fiberglass with polyester resin. A DIY how to.

jay_kent

1979 cb650
A bit of a how-to on how I’ve created my fiberglass parts using auto store brand polyester fiberglass resin.
The Seat pattern
Get the blue or pink insulating foam from Home Depot. Cut and roughly block out the shape of the seat you want. Take a bread knife and a surform (hand held cheese grater, auto section by the bondo) to get it closer to the shape, and then sand it smooth with sandpaper. Florists foam will work okay, but I find that the regular ball type Styrofoam is a PITA to work with and it will never be smooth. The insulating foam you can sand till it's perfect but be careful that you don't slice it with an edge of the sandpaper. Taking your time and getting this pattern perfect now will save you finishing time at the end.
Surform:
images


Prepping the foam pattern:
Cover with aluminum foil, tin-foil tape or paint it with latex paint. I opted for the latex paint, but brush it on. Don't use a spray bomb, the propellant will eat your foam pattern. A couple of heavy coats should do it. (These procedures prevents the polyester resin from dissolving your pattern)

The fiberglass
I used what was on hand, I had a racing buddy you gave me a huge roll of chopped mat. It's about the weight that you can buy in the auto store. That's all I had, so that's all I used. There are lighter weights of mat and cloth. The lighter ones work well for tighter shapes. Use what you can afford.

The Resin
I used polyester resin found common in auto stores. Epoxy resin is said to be better but for me it all came down to price and availability. I read on a few boat building blogs that you can cut the resin with acetone to thin it out. This helps to wet the glass out quicker and slow the reaction down by a little bit for more working time. Don't go above 10% acetone otherwise it won't kick off. So 300ml of polyester resin = 30 ml of Acetone. Mix the Acetone with the resin first, make sure it's mixed very well. Then add the catalyst to start the reaction. If you don't pre-mix the acetone it won’t mix properly before the reaction kicks off.
Here’s a good run down on materials
http://billsboatworks.webs.com/materials.htm

The process
Prep a flat surface with sheet of waxed paper taped to the surface, get a pack of cheapo brushes, pre-cut pieces of fiberglass and trial fit them to shape on the pattern dry, make sure you know what piece goes on to what part of the pattern. All pieces should have some overlap to them.
Mix your resin, resin+acetone=mix then resin/acetone mixture+catalyst
Lay out a piece of glass on the waxed paper and with a brush, stipple the resin onto the glass and when wetted throughly put on to mold, Repeat. I found that I didn't use as much resin this way as laying the glass dry on the pattern then brushing resin on, it helps to keep the part lighter as well.
Keep doing that till you have as many layers you feel necessary to hold your weight. You can also encapsulate hardware and other things like wood strips as a place to staple you seat cover to during this time.

The final steps
Once the entire mat is laid and the thickness is built up, mix a final batch of resin but don’t use acetone this time. Brush the resin on to your complete part, essentially paint your part with the resin. Here’s why; whatever the material choice, the part will not be perfectly smooth and most often a skim coat of bondo or glazing putty is used to fill in those recesses. Using the un-thinned resin will fill in those voids and self-level so the part is almost glass smooth. Let it harden and cure for a few days to a week.
Your part is now smooth and ultra-shiny, but unfortunately in order to paint, the glossiness has to be knocked out. If there are pin holes from air bubbles or low spots, fill those in with glazing putty. Use a fine grade sandpaper and rough up your part so that primer will adhere properly. Paint as you normally would and voila
 
Thanks for teh Step by Step.

I'd avoid acetone. If you want slower reactions, use less catalyst. Epoxy resin is better for some applications, but it doesn't wet out the cloth the way that polyseter does so it's harder to work with for glass and ideal for C/F.

The first seat mold I made was from stiff card which I sprayed with rattle can and then applied a few coats of wax. Worked like a charm. I still use card and metal duct tape to make simple small models to take a mold off.
 
The acetone was mostly just to thin out the resin and have it wet out the glass quicker. I've got to use the wax trick. I'll try it on my next project
 
Any preference on what type of fiberglass Mat or Cloth to use? And when would I want to use Mat versus Cloth?

I was looking at http://uscomposites.com/ for options. But there are so many i'm not sure which is proper. Same question with Resins.
 
that kind of question will start a riot, Since everything I've done was because I've got a few hundred feet of chop mat it's all I'm really in expert in.
Ideally its best to have a variety different thickness, especially for tighter corners it's easier to wet out and make smooth. Imagine trying to get a wet tissue smooth around a corner, pretty easy. Not as easy with something a little thicker.

And honestly its best to start looking at boat forums. There is a ton of wealth on there for fiberglassing.
 
kioskguy said:
Any preference on what type of fiberglass Mat or Cloth to use? And when would I want to use Mat versus Cloth?

I was looking at http://uscomposites.com/ for options. But there are so many i'm not sure which is proper. Same question with Resins.

Not trying to thread-jack. Just thought I'd give my $0.02. I can only give some insight as to what I've used (mostly from USC)...

I made my (female) mold with the black tooling gelcoat (GEL-BL025), tooling isophthalic resin (SM-404100), thin cloth from local automotive paint supply (about 6-8oz.), mat from same (about 10oz.), 18oz. cloth (FG-C1838) and Coremat (FG-CM0239).

The one thing I can say about the above resin is...IT STINKS! I did my work with it outdoors, and the smell from just the clothes I was wearing nearly knocked my wife for a loop when I came into the house! Just a heads up on that, in case you don't feel like sleeping on the couch. ;)

The 18oz. cloth was more forgiving and made contours much better that I expected. Like Jay said, the heavier the mat, the less it will stick to the shape you want. I like to use cloth for at least the first couple of layers. More control.

The Coremat (FG-CM0239) sucks up a lot of resin. It does not form to contours very well. I used it mainly for reinforcement in the flat areas of the mold and as the last layer on the pan area of the seat since that area is flat. It has good strength:weight ratio.

For my seat, I used some of the above products in addition to white gelcoat (GEL-W025), medium epoxy resin (EPOX-635313) and 8.50z. twill cloth (FG-772550).

The first seat I laid up, I used the white gelcoat with the epoxy resin. I had read mixed reviews on the adhesion properties of epoxy to poly, so I let the gelcoat harden, then sanded before laying up. I'm here to tel ya...don't mix the two! The gelcoat separated in a few fairly large areas and the seat was basically a write off. :mad:

The second seat I laid up, I just used the epoxy resin without gelcoat. Came out just fine. I'll be sealing with an epoxy primer anyway.

My experience with both resins are that the poly wets out much easier than the epoxy. The poly is thinner. The poly also uses MEKP as catalyst. It is measured in fractions of an ounce, or even drops and it is recommended to mix a minimum of a 1/2 pint or so for it to harden properly.

The Epoxy resin is thicker, but adhesion and strength are better. It does not wet out as nice as the poly. It is mixed at a volume ratio depending on set up time (I used 3:1).

One thing about the twill cloth (FG-772550). It conforms to extreme contours very well, but it can be a bit of a pain to lay up. I cut out two large pieces that covered the entire seat. It fit nicely when dry fit, but when I wet it out, it kinda had a mind of its own. It is flexible in all directions and stretches easily, not holding its shape like a conventional cloth will. Smaller pieces tend to be more manageable.

I am going to try laying up an all poly seat next. I'll let you know how it goes.

Hope that helps. ;)

Cheers,
-Jeff
 
One thing is matt glass is glued together with a polyester base glue. Epoxy resins will not disolve the glue and the matt will not form.

And it is correct, it is almost impossible to get epoxy and poly to stick together, there is no chemical bond, only mechanical. Plus I don't use gelcoat, as it is very brittle because of the solids and anything that flexes will spider crack.
 
JA-Moo said:
Plus I don't use gelcoat, as it is very brittle because of the solids and anything that flexes will spider crack.

I stopped using gelcoat on some of my products when I saw how it sometimes cracks and becomes brittle on parts that flex. I found that a blend of polyester resin thickened with silica or other type of filler is actually a bit tougher in some cases. I apply a very light coat of this mixture to smooth out the finish when using a mold. It makes the finished part tough, smooth and free of the pitting that you get when you only use glass and resin.

I also use a pigment when using for production parts.
 
CafeRacerSeats said:
I found that a blend of polyester resin thickened with silica or other type of filler is actually a bit tougher in some cases. I apply a very light coat of this mixture to smooth out the finish when using a mold. It makes the finished part tough, smooth and free of the pitting that you get when you only use glass and resin.

How much of the filler do you use, for say... a pint of resin? Do you lay up right after that, or let it harden before laying up?

BTW, welcome! Do you have any pics of your work?
 
I make it about the thickness of gelcoat, just thick enough so that it doesn't run. I let it kick a bit until it's tacky like you would with gelcoat.
 
Here's my latest pan. I have about five different seat pan styles right now. I also have a few classic GSXR replacement parts. I'm adding to my product line every few weeks.

lowpro5sm.jpg
 
JA-Moo said:
One thing is matt glass is glued together with a polyester base glue. Epoxy resins will not disolve the glue and the matt will not form.
.

A trick we use at the company I work for is to work the matt to get it softer before you wet it out. It breaks up the "glue" and allows it to wet out quicker so that it keeps air bubbles from forming. the glue is normally dissolved by the styrene in the resin.
 
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