Make Harley build a cafe.
- Thread starter RRAL
- Start date
VonYinzer
Over 10,000 Posts
I didnt say that the HD was an underpperforming bike. I have an Ironhead chop and the beginings of an Ironhead cafe. What I said was that the stock frames weigh a ton, and they do. I also said that the stock components arent made for a race style bike, which they arent. The HDs arent designed to be tossed around in the corners or ridden hard on twisty roads. Sure, they can be if you really push the limits of whats fun and whats downright unsafe. My only point is that the HD isnt a great donor for a cafe if you plan on using most of the stock components. And, you have no idea how old I am, so keep the smug bullshit out of this. Thanks.
VonYinzer
Over 10,000 Posts
And on top of that, I never said anything about a cb750. Ive said several times in the past that Im not really a fan of the 750. Too big, too heavy. That said, it would still beat a Sportster on a road course. I dont want to hear 1/4 mile drag times. Thats lame. I certainly dont look for the flattest, straightest roads when Im out riding. Now that said, I still love Sportsters. I really do. I just dont like them stock. Then again, theres only a handful of bikes I do like in stock trim.
VonYinzer said:
Haha.. Truth. However.. I do think it depends on which HD you're talking about.. I'm sure Harley thought that's what they were designing when the created the Sporty.. They just missed the mark a little.
Honestly my Nightster scared me at first. Handled like a top-heavy dump truck. I threw some clip-ons on it and that changed it drastically. I feel like I have better control over the steering at speed, but more importantly my body has been put in a much better position to maintain confidence in tighter turns. That and some new rubber has made all the difference. I plan to replace the susp on it to get a little more out of it. Will it out handle my Beemer? Probably not. There is only so much science and prayer can do before physics lays down the law.
But the truth of the matter is.. the bike is a blast to ride.. love em or hate em.. And I'd let anyone have a go on it just to try it out.
S
Summerfest32
Guest
http://www.bikeexif.com/harley-xl-1200-custom
CresentSon
Over 1,000 Posts
The economics have a lot to do with this too. There are plenty of sub-prime bikes getting the cafe treatment out there. Many of them have a similar aesthetic as a cafe'd HD, or have similar performance styles. A lot of them I like for different reasons. They are also easier to accept due to the fact they didn't carry a Harley premium. Even a beater project cost more than a similar non-HD build, just because of the name.
Basically you're spending more, for something less than optimum for the style, just because of the name. Regardless of weight, speed, visual style, form, function or whatever you want the main focus of your "cafe" bike to be, you can do it better and cheaper if you don't insist on the HD brand on it.
And fast in a straight line was never the goal of any era of cafe culture, so CB750 vs HD drags is a non-issue.
Basically you're spending more, for something less than optimum for the style, just because of the name. Regardless of weight, speed, visual style, form, function or whatever you want the main focus of your "cafe" bike to be, you can do it better and cheaper if you don't insist on the HD brand on it.
And fast in a straight line was never the goal of any era of cafe culture, so CB750 vs HD drags is a non-issue.
Dirty Dan
Tasty waves and a cool buzz.
It's (almost always) the rider that's slowing the bike down. Here's something for you guys to check out. These bad asses on Goldwings could probably out-run most of the knuckle heads (har har see what I did there?) on their "real" cafe bikes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nrMQ3QwyPo
I don't have anything against the idea of a Harley "cafe style" bike, can't say I'd drop the coin for it though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nrMQ3QwyPo
I don't have anything against the idea of a Harley "cafe style" bike, can't say I'd drop the coin for it though.
CresentSon
Over 1,000 Posts
True that the average rider is the limiting factor of the machine, but what would those guys do on a bike designed for that ('cafe' or otherwise)?
my-79-750-k
Therapy is expensive. Riding is cheap. You decide.
When will HD learn that the hi-top peanut tank on the sporty's is one of, if not THE UGLIEST THING TO EVER BE DEVISED OUT OF SHEET METAL! It looks retarded and only holds 3 gallons. The 04+ tanks were MUCH better looking, more streamlined, lower profile, more sleek. For some reason every redneck in FL thinks the hi-top tank looks good on every barn build "chopper/bobber/piece of shit" that can be imagined to come out of said barns in backwoods Florida. I love the EVO engine line, it's fairly smooth, fairly linear, fairly upgrade responsive and gets fairly good gas mileage. A lot of "fairs" to describe an engine that a lot of HD enthusiasts consider one of the great ones. The Sporty from the bikeexif link, not a cafe IMHO. Why you ask? The tank for one, as already stated, it doesn't flow what-so-ever with the rest of the bike. Hard-tail struts, hardly beneficial for increased turn handling. Lastly, the rake angle, it's still very much a cruiser with that slung out front end. That's the main downfall for me with the Sporty "cafe"s. The front end is designed for a cruiser, very long and a shallow angle, which adds to their ill handling of high speed corners. Even the bigger CB's were designed to be cruisers in base model form and have that long front end with a shallow angle, making high speed cornering tricky. A Sporty CAN be made into a cafe, I'll admit that, but it takes quite a bit of work, just as any other bike I guess, but it seems like with an HD, it takes quite a bit more.
On a side note, I really would consider an EVO 1200 in a low center, double backbone, double downtube frame with low rake angle, sit the engine super low, slap a big, meaty tire in the back, and for God's sakes, put a tank other than the hi-top on there. Now that would be a HD cafe if you ask me.
On a side note, I really would consider an EVO 1200 in a low center, double backbone, double downtube frame with low rake angle, sit the engine super low, slap a big, meaty tire in the back, and for God's sakes, put a tank other than the hi-top on there. Now that would be a HD cafe if you ask me.
Cornish Pixie
Ambitious but rubbish cafe builder
cobraace2 said:Why the hate for Harleys :-\ bike,s are like pussy there is not a bad one ;D especially after some cocktail,s
And I will say it again they did build one and its older then most of you here so show some respect
Had a poster of one of these on my bedroom wall in '77 - Loved it then almost as much as the bird with her tits out in the poster next to it
Don't love it as much now, but I would like to have one in the garage. Funny isn't it? When these were new, nobody "got it" so they didn't sell - net result, 30+ years later hardly any have survived and over here in the UK, they are a niche bike that command very, very strong money if in very good stock trim. If someone's got one they want to sell, advertise it here in the UK and I'll bet you will be surprised how much cash you get for it.
The Sportster engine in a Norton Featherbed style frame is starting to take off here and there are a couple of firms making good quality repro featherbed frames that are specifically designed to take a Sportster engine. Over here in the UK the going rate for a repro frame and a fairly rough early 1200 Sportster donor bike would be around £4000 ($6000) You've still got to figure in the cost of refurbishment of whatever parts are re-used and purchase of other new parts that you might want if you want the thing to go faster than a tractor and go round corners reasonably well. So, here in the UK it's not a cheap option to build a well thought out and properly executed Sportster based Cafe that would actually be a Cafe and not a dressed up Sportster. Thought about going down this route long and hard - not convinced it will be worth the investment or be great to ride when it's finished?
just my 2 cents worth
RRAL
Been Around the Block
I never though this thread would gain so much attention... I guess I was just hopeing we could get a bunch of votes for the "cafe style" build. Why, not because I wanted HD to go into production with it or I though it would be super cool... but to see what the finished product this dealer came up with would look like. Why do I care what it would look like, well Im never going to ride it so what do I care how fast it is or how it handles, the other two options were Bobber with Ape Hanger and Bobber with drag bars.... which describe half the production sporties out right now.
t71ford - I think we have a very similar mind set when it comes to bikes, riding, and the HD crowd.
I think it is important to remember everyone starts somewhere, and for someone not raised around bikes in the US crusiers are where they gravitate to. Crusiers are great at what they are made for, as are sport bikes, enduro bikes, ect... If you want to fight over handeling and speed, only one person or bike can be the best and next year they will no longer be the best becuase someone else will out do them.
As for VonYinzer... I know how old he is, and I also know that he knows more about bikes than most people I have ever met. Even guys in their 70's and have been around cars and bikes their whole lives.
t71ford - I think we have a very similar mind set when it comes to bikes, riding, and the HD crowd.
I think it is important to remember everyone starts somewhere, and for someone not raised around bikes in the US crusiers are where they gravitate to. Crusiers are great at what they are made for, as are sport bikes, enduro bikes, ect... If you want to fight over handeling and speed, only one person or bike can be the best and next year they will no longer be the best becuase someone else will out do them.
As for VonYinzer... I know how old he is, and I also know that he knows more about bikes than most people I have ever met. Even guys in their 70's and have been around cars and bikes their whole lives.
RRAL
Been Around the Block
also, I love Peanut tanks... especially the way it looks frisco style "high top", I think its one of the coolest looking bikes. I will admit that it is way over done. I will aslo admit that it does not add to the bikes profomance, but its not supposed to... Mounting the thank up high came out of chopper culture, specificly of the 70's San francisco area.
