My first, a 1971 CL350

[tbolish]

Hi all, here's my bike. Got plans to get this thing tuned up to spec for this riding season, and then really get into chopping and modding once it gets put away for the unbearably long midwest winters we get here in Chicago.


http://lostgarage.com/2011/04/honda-350-scrambler/


I'm pretty much a complete noob when it comes to wrenching on bikes, but everyone has to start somewhere I suppose. Got me a Clymer's manual, as well as the digital service manuals that have been floating around, and have been pretty busy pouring over a lot of info. Got the following supplies as well:


-Seafoam motor treatment
-Generic Carb cleaner
-new motor oil
-fuel filters
-fuel line
-UNI air filters & oil


Went riding for a bit yesterday as it was the only nice day we are going to have in a while here, and noticed the bike acting kinda shitty. Starts ok with kick, but dies if choke isn't pretty much wide open, even when warmed up. Don't want to ride it like this for fear of blowing something up, so I'm going to take the carbs apart and thoroughly clean them. Here's what I have planned to do, in order. Please let me know if I should do something differently:


- Check compression
- check valve timing
- check ignition timing
- Remove carbs/ Soak and clean/rebuild
- Install new air filters and fuel filters
- Pour Seafoam in gas tank and crank case
- Clean oil filter
- Change oil


Hopefully this will get things running smoother. Then off to do the rest of the bike tune up like forks, brakes, clutch, etc...Wish me luck, as I'm completely new to this except for changing oil.


Btw, here's some new pics of the bike as well. The air filters were completely disintegrated when I took off the covers, hence the new Uni one's im about to put on.

 

[honeybadger]

make sure the idle mix screws are set properly.


Make sure the floats are set and not sunk (take them off and shake them. If there's gas in them, they're dead)


Make sure it's all clean and there are no leaks between the carbs and the manifolds.


It's amazing how teeny tiny things with the carbs can make HUGE differences.


Bike looks really clean, looking forward to seeing how it turns out!

 

[tbolish]

Thanks, I'm hoping there's nothing major I need to work on...I really just want to ride this thing for a bit before I start messing with it too much. So sick of winter!

 

[joeyputt]

Brother tbolish it is great to see another first time builder here with us! You have a nice bike and a good plan but most importantly remember to be safe and take your time to enjoy the build!

 

[tbolish]

Thanks for the kind words Joey.


So tonight after work I experimented with taking apart one of my carbs. I was really surprised to see that it was quite clean inside....I was actually hoping that it would be really dirty, and I could easily fix my bikes problems. I guess that won't be the case. I took everything apart, and soaked the metal parts in some carb cleaner anyway. At least I learned how to take my carbs apart and rebuild them. This pic is right after I first took them apart. As you can see, pretty clean. Sounded like my floats have gas in them, although they still are buoyant. Should I still?

I probably should have bought a new rebuild kit with new o rings and gaskets...I regret not doing so before taking tem apart...and to be honest I'm kinda thinking of just saying screw it and order new Mikuni carbs. I had planned on doing this when I actually disassembled, cleaned, and rebuilt the entire bike after the summer, but am tempted to do so now. However part of me wants to stick it out and just try to fix one thing at a time, and get the bike running better without buying new fancy stuff.


Onto some more things that may need some attention sooner than later.
Looks like maybe a something is leaking on my left cylinder, maybe a gasket? Lots of crud and oil built up, while the right side is pretty clean.

I also noticed this yellowish crud when the carb was removed... Does this look like JB Weld or something? I'm really hoping my case isn't cracked or anything.

So much of this bike needs to be cleaned, repaired, or replaced I think, its really a little overwhelming.


Any thoughts or advice would greatly be appreciated.
Thanks,
Tim

 

[BCBarker]

cb350's are fun and easy to work on. Don't rush yourself. Just start cleaning and you will eventually have a sweet bike. Be patient, take your time, and try and learn something. If something is broken, don't use JB weld to fix it. Buy a new part. There are a ton of part for these. If you can't find it, your not looking in the right place. Keep us updated!

oh... and have fun!

 

[tbolish]

So I'm off today, decided to work on the bike a bit. Just going through the Clymer manual doing a tune up. Checked compression, and put new plugs in. Seems like my left cylinder might have some issues, as compression was pretty low. (although I tested it cold since I have my exhaust and carbs off.) Right cylinder was fine.


Spark plugs looked pretty crappy. Left cylinder was really black, looked like it might be oil fouled...I sure hope my piston rings aren't screwed up on this side. Right cylinder was black as well, looked like it was just carbon though, too lean of a mixture I think.


Now for the really bad part....I was adjusting my valves, got them to spec with feeler gauges, was feeling pretty good....As I was putting back the right cylinder intake tappet cover, the head completely snapped off! WTF! I wasn't even tightening that hard!

Luckily i was able to get the thread out of the hole... Now I'm looking for a replacement tappet cover. Anyone got a spare one of these laying around, or should I just ebay it?


Thanks,
Tim

 

[tbolish]

Well, I "borrowed" a tappet cover from my buddies cl until the one i just ordered from ebay gets here.


Replaced spark plugs, now onto setting my ignition timing.


Seems like I'm having some issues with setting the timing. When I removed the point cover, the base plate was turned completely clockwise as far as it could go.... and my timing was still significantly off. Any ideas on whats up with this?

Tried setting the point gaps, seemed to help a little but not nearly enough. I'm not sure if I should replace my points or not. They looked left one is pretty rusty.

 

[Jared]

I can make a video if you like about the timing. I had several questions about it and after tinkering with mine for hours and hours I think I can answer your question with expierience. That is if you want. Shoot me a PM and I can fill you in on some stuff and I can bang out the video by tomorrow morning if you want.

 

[tbolish]

Awesome, much appreciated! Just shot you a PM.

 

[djelliott]

Hey Tim, got back in town and finally got to check out your thread. Great bike to start with and it comes with all the classic problems ;D . Sounds like new points were a must. Good thing they're cheap. I would highly recommend getting the rebuild kits if you're staying with those carbs. Might as well start off with new jets and o-rings. Also be sure that the little black rubber bung that plugs in over the pilot jet isn't missing. That'll cause your carbs to dump way to much gas at idle. By the looks of your points plate your timing was wicked retarded. Probably why it would only run with the choke. Your starting in the right places pal. Keep us posted on your progress. I have two whole CB/CL motors for parts and much more so if you need anything don't be afraid to ask. Cheers.

 

[CBdublin]

hey man... just checking out the thread and like most i went through nearly every problem you are going through. with these old 350's once you fix something you realize something was wrong somewhere else which does seem overwhelming at first until you've replaced or fixed things little by little. then you figure out one day that the line of issues that can happen have already been addressed and just some regular maintenance is needed. my thread was not only my first cafe but first bike ever and man did i want to trash it a MILLION times . just tossing in another dont give up and be glad you found this site already. i didnt figure this out until far into my build. i was lucky to not have to replace the points yet but those bowls have to GO. even if they float these keihens are way sensitive to the smallest change you'll never be able to properly tune them with gas inside them. the rest sounds good so far so just keep us in the loop.

 

[tbolish]

Thanks to both of you guys for the advice and support. I already got new gaskets and o-rings for both carbs, and a new float for the right one. Left float seems ok. As of right now, I'm waiting on the mail for the following:


new breaker point plate and points assembly
new tappet cover
rubber gas tank mount..(didn't realize i didnt have one of these till i took the tank off)
stainless steel carb bolts...(mine are pretty fucked)


Last night I was screwing around with my carbs out of boredom, and noticed the main jet holder on my left carb is a little messed up. I'll post a pic tomorrow, looks like someone tried to dig it out with a screwdriver and broke the top little tab. Oh Joy! Also, it was missing the o-ring for the bowl drain screw..perhaps thats why this carb leaks a bit when the bike is on the side stand....


Now I'm debating on buying at least one of these kits: as they are the only thing I can find online that carries a replacement main jet holder. http://www.outwestmotorcycles.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=77&products_id=338


Kinda pricey, but they seem to be the best carb repair kits for this particular model.

Part of me wants to give in and just buy the prejetted Mikuni VM30 kit from Dime City Cycles still...probably a good thing its on back order, or I may have angrily clicked "Add to Cart". I have a feeling I'm going to be putting a lot of dough into this bike to get it to be how envision, good thing work is really starting to pick up around Chicago as more bands start touring more this time of year.


Anyway, DJ, you happen to have a spare Keihin carb laying around with a main jet holder in good condition?


Thanks again, much respect to the folks that wrench with wisdom!

 

[djelliott]

Matter of fact I do. Give me your address and I'll send it to you. Post a pick of what you need. Do you mean the float valve seat or the metal piece that holds the primary and secondary?

 

[tbolish]

Sent you a PM Dustin, thanks again. Man I love the folks on this site! Everyone is so willing to help out, I definitely want to give back if possible...that is when I know what the hell I'm doing, lol.




Anyway, I still think I'm having issues with my iginition timing. Made a lil video about what I'm working with. (I apologize for the crappy quality, its my first upload to youtube)


cl350 ignition timing question


I think I set my point gaps properly...I set them to .014" on each side as the cam lobe opened them up...and rechecked after I tightened the retainers back down. Now...I set up my test light and cranked away...damn thing still lights up WAY after the LF mark....even when I advance the spark by turning the baseplate all the way as far clockwise as it can go.


Now I'm wondering if the breaker cam or spark advance assembly could have something wrong with them, or even worse, my cam chain.


Any advice would again, be much appreciated.

 

[djelliott]

Just a thought, did you possible instal the cam for the mechanical advance 180 degrees off?

 

[tbolish]

Just a thought, did you possible instal the cam for the mechanical advance 180 degrees off?

I thought about this, and even flipped it to make sure, it seemed to be even more out of wack when flipped it 180.


Timing is definitely making my head hurt!

 

[djelliott]

I thought about this, and even flipped it to make sure, it seemed to be even more out of wack when flipped it 180.


Timing is definitely making my head hurt!

Just think about how much you're learning.

 

[djelliott]

Another thought is that your cam chain is bad and may have jumped a tooth or may have been improperly installed by a PO. Might explain why it's WAY out. Just a thought.

 

[tbolish]

Just think about how much you're learning.

Ha true...I am definitely learning a whole lot, and that is cool with me. Crash course in motorcycle maintenance!

Another thought is that your cam chain is bad and may have jumped a tooth or may have been improperly installed by a PO. Might explain why it's WAY out. Just a thought.

This makes me worry a bit...I really didn't want to take the engine apart until next winter...Obviously I'd like to ride the bike while the weather is starting to get nice... Since I have no experience here, I'm pretty nervous that I'll screw something up, or miss the entire season or both... I've been reading up through my shop manuals, as well as on this site and others...How hard is it to replace the cam chain and tensioner? Some say it's easy, but they have a lot more experience than I.