Rear sets, when did they "arrive"

I'm 6'2", and don't have rearsets on my CB350F... Might put some on someday, but I find that with clubmans (mainly due to my long as hell arms) the bike is still eminently comfortable. I also have grown to prefer the "sitting" position while tooling around town.

Might gall some of the Cafe purists to see a set of clubmans on an otherwise stock CB350F, but I have a ball with it... And have yet to run into any purist in the real world who cared.
 
I don't understand why clubmans are so reviled. They are a legitimate part of the scene. If you go back to production racing in the 60s in England one of the rules was the handlebars had to be mounted in the stock position. Clubmans were a very clever way of getting the clip on effect without breaking the rules.
 
Hoofhearted said:
I don't understand why clubmans are so reviled. They are a legitimate part of the scene. If you go back to production racing in the 60s in England one of the rules was the handlebars had to be mounted in the stock position. Clubmans were a very clever way of getting the clip on effect without breaking the rules.
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[Sarcasm] come on Hoof, you know that you can't be a legit boy cafe racer ton up rockabilly icon without clip-ons! I mean, every single cafe-racer back in the day rocked 70's Hondas with fiberglass seats, rear-sets off of a sport-bike, and clipons [/sarcasm]
 
Hoofhearted said:
I don't understand why clubmans are so reviled. They are a legitimate part of the scene. If you go back to production racing in the 60s in England one of the rules was the handlebars had to be mounted in the stock position. Clubmans were a very clever way of getting the clip on effect without breaking the rules.
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I think that's a lot to do with it. People view/viewed them as a compromise? Also, clubmans are cheaper so you obviously haven't spent as much money on your bike if you're running with those instead of clipons.
 
Im not giving anyone here a hard time, so lets keep the name calling to a minimum if we could ;)

This is kind of what Im talking about though. Why does anyones opinion of what parts you choose to use matter? As long as the reasoning for you using said parts relies on more than "I want to look cool". Clubmans or clip-ons, specific brands of rearsets, etc... Who cares? As long as youre making the bike BETTER, the look will come along with that.
 
"Why use one solid part besigned by a motorcycle company when four cnc genaric parts can be bolted together and do the job half as well haha o yea and all thread for linkage makes them extra shitty. gsxr is my wepon of choice."

a very valid point i think i will trip to the salvage paradise tomorrow bet i could get some wrecked up gixxer ones for 40 bux.
 
yep, I'll drink to that. Most guys in the day fitted Ace bars because they were very simple to fit and a quick way to "get the look". Literally an hour's fit up.

Fitting clip -ons meant stripping the front end down, ditching or modifying the headlamp ears, etc., etc.

As far as I'm concerned they are completely legitimate period items. ;)
 
Tim said:
I ride old 1970's bikes because they're what I can afford, or at least that's how it started.

Even with all the silly money I've poured into my XS650, it's still $1000's less than buying a decent 'new' bike. That has allowed me to expand my collection and hobby to include 4 other bikes.

Sure I could sell the lot, buy a $12,000 BMW F800R and flog the crap out of it, watch it depreciate daily, worry about it getting stolen and never have to turn a wrench on it, but what fun would that be?

All this debate over what makes or doesn't make a 'cafe racer' is kinda pointless. The entire, and I mean entire point of what most of us do is to get 2 wheels on the road, enjoy some riding time, do what work we can ourselves, personalize the bike to our tastes, learn a ton while we do it and meet good people. If you prefer stock footpegs and controls combined with clipons, a stretched tank, lowered riding position etc. then that's 100% totally cool with me.

If you're concerned about the opinions of others and what they think about you and your bike, then deal with that issue first.

Think the guy who built this gave a rat's ass what anyone else on the planet thought about his choice of riding position, components, style, or anything else? Highly unlikely, and that's what makes it one of the coolest bikes on the planet. That's what makes all of our bikes drool-worthy - the "I don't give a fuck what you think about me or my bike" factor.

Yes we're all slaves to fashion in one way or another, we all succumb to trends from time to time and we build on ideas and styles from previous generations. Unless you have decades of experience, decisions you make will always be in someway guided by form over function, until you gain the experience of 'function' and learn what works and what doesn't work for you and your situation. Nothing wrong with that.

Don't let anyone ever tell you your bike isn't a 'insert meaningless descriptor here' because it has or doesn't have one thing or another bolted to it.
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Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, the salt Ghost
 
Sonreir said:
I think that's a lot to do with it. People view/viewed them as a compromise? Also, clubmans are cheaper so you obviously haven't spent as much money on your bike if you're running with those instead of clipons.
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Today they are viewed as a "compromise" On another forum I visit clubmans are viewed as the ultimate no-no for a cafe. All that tells me is those people are as dumb as dirt. Go back a few decades before 1-800 send (ridiculously expensive) parts or the "add to cart" internet and you find that you had to do with what you had. As BC will confirm back in the 60s in England (and Ireland) "young lads" didn't have money to throw around. Some had pretty good jobs and could afford the best. Others were not so lucky. Check out this photo. Taken in Dublin in the mid 60s. Tony on the left had a good job and could afford all the goodies. The other lad, who's name escapes me right now, didn't. Clubmans and a plastic leopard skin seat cover converts his tatty AJS into a cafe. Both legitimate in their own right.

The other thing that gets up my nose is people ragging on "bolt ons". Stop and think about it. The ultimate cafe icon is the Dunstall Dominator. What did Paul Dunstall do to create it? He BOLTED on goodies. I do believe for an extra fee you could get some head work done. But basically a Dunstall was a bolt on cafe.

P.S. The Salt Ghost was a Bonneville racer that topped 140 in its heyday. Wes White brought it back to Bonneville a couple of years ago and ran it as a sort of tribute.

photo155g.jpg

By weslake at 2010-12-19
 
Sonreir said:
I think that's a lot to do with it. People view/viewed them as a compromise? Also, clubmans are cheaper so you obviously haven't spent as much money on your bike if you're running with those instead of clipons.
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Nailed it. The clipons vs clubmans mess is a status thing here in america. Ppl view using clubs as a cheap "not really into it" me-too way of cafe. I've met very few ppl who actually have a reason aside from "its cooler" for using clipons. Im rather happy without Rearsets myself. But for my next build... yeah its getting them, and a lot of other "race" components. But I likely wont be commuting to work on that bike either.
 
I used to commute 75 miles each way on my T100 with clip ons and rear sets back in the day. And sometimes I got to work on time but that was never a given. That was before motorways and fast cop cars and speed cameras of course, but it can be done. Think winding Scottish roads in the lowlands a few decades ago.(always seemed to be raining though).

The reason for reasets really is ergonomics. Lower the bars enough and it bends the rider in the middle which isn't very good for the back or posture. Move the pegs back slightly and it allows the feet to be below the seat for a perfect fast riding position.

My latest bikes all have higher bars and slightly more forward pegs because I can't bend like a pretzel as well as i used to but that's a whole other story.

The biggest issue with clubmans is that they tend to come with some odd angles and are typically wider than clipons. The biggest advantage is that they are cheap and the headlight ears can stay.

Dunstall, Bill Chuck, Read Titan, Sondel Sport, P&C, Unity Equipe, CRA, etc all sold tanks and sets and clipons and ace bars and rear sets and swept back pipes. Does anyone seriously think we used to make that stuff ourselves... I don't theenk so.
 
I threw the Dunstall bolt on bit in as I see people posting about bolt on vs."I made it myself" constantly. It sometimes appears if you didn't make it yourself you're not really a cafe builder.

In a sort of parallel to the clubmans aren't really cafe vs. clip ons or nothing. I visit the HAMB which is a traditional hot rod forum. In the 12 year of the 21st. century traditonal hot rodding of the 50s has come to be defined by this forum as something that really has nothing to do with the 50s. There are a number of things that despite being around in the 50s have now come to be defined as untraditional. Any postings about them are hastily deleted. There is even a thread on there asking if T buckets are HAMB friendly!!

Please don't let this forum become a place where a cafe is defined by 21st. century thinking. Cafes should be an ongoing evolution that retains the basics.
 
Mr.E said:
Its a joke man! Carpy is a brit who's been in California for white a few years turning cb750s into cafes. His style is a tad gaudy as far as style of paint and such but I gotta say, he's been at it a lot longer than most of us and he knows how to build a bike from the inside out. And he's helpful on the phone too. He was doing cafe way before cafe was cool in america.
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I can't add much to this beaten and kicked horse of a topic but I can +1 Mr.E's statement about Carpy. He's been into it much longer then most of us (please no dick swinging from you fellas that were there in the day, we already respect you guys) and he is a genuine and nice fellow. He'll answer your emails and even chat with you on the phone. I think his work is very nice as well.
 
Why is that Carpy can't get no respect? he didn't exactly invent the genre, but he certainly did his bit to keep the breed alive and well for many years.
 
I don't think its no respect. He does keep the chequered tape and 59 club more than alive. Like has been said the American idea of a cafe is somewhat different to his. He builds great bikes. No snarks from me.
 
Bill Chuck ...... now that really is a man of the times.

I bought my first set of clip -ons [ never made any ] from Vale Onslow in Birmingham - 1960. I can't remember who the manufacturer was, but yer typical tube on a bigger split tube and chromed. Dunstall, Unity, Degens all came along later in the 60's - although I do seem to remember Bill Chuck from the very early days. And yes they weren't always an ergonomic success - a "one size fits all" approach. Laverda fitted fully adjustable Clubman's style bars to their Jotas and they really WERE fully adjustable. As stated - ergonomics was the Clubman's bars biggest drawback, as the wrist joint angles could be all bollox. A much better option for me was Vincent or Norton "straights".

Now then Carpy - I genuinely didn't know who this guy is - sorry. I've done a google on him and I see he seems to specialize in Honda 750 Cafe Racers. Looks like he was an ex-pat Brit and moved around a bit [ Oz?] before settling is the US. He also seems to be passionate about what he does, that'll do for me.

I never heard of him in the day, so presume he is a decade or so younger than some of us ! He seems to have made his name in the US, which is probably why I've never heard of him. Maybe the remark about him inventing Cafe Racers and rearsets was tongue in cheek?

Anyone who has such a following can't be doing things too badly - style is after all subjective. Does he do other stuff than Honda 750's?

And as for flogging the topic - isn't that what forums are for?
 
That's pretty accurate about Carpy. I like the guy, having only spoken to him on the phone and email, he's a great asset to the community, and he used to be on here once in a while too. He does dabble in other bikes, but cb750 hondas (being plentiful) are what he likes.
 
Mr.E said:
That's pretty accurate about Carpy. I like the guy, having only spoken to him on the phone and email, he's a great asset to the community, and he used to be on here once in a while too. He does dabble in other bikes, but cb750 hondas (being plentiful) are what he likes.
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Since I posted I've come across two other referrences, one in a British Magazine and one in the Cafe Racer mag [ US ].
 
+1.
He's helped me several times over the phone on my CB750F. Great guy and always willing to offer up advice.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
 
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