RIP motorcycles in Ontario?

[caferay]

I went to Mosport for superbike weekend for the first time in years. I had no idea how bad the sport was suffering in Ontario.
Many riders I talked to said they wouldn't be back, there was just no sponsorship money. The dealers can't afford to sponsor, the parts shops can't afford it either, the numbers of riders has no gotten below critical mass.
I have never seen fewer people at an event at Mosport. 1/20 old crowds, and of that crowd, there were few people under 40.
Ironically, there was great racing.
Who to blame?
Since the 80s, the population of the GTA has doubled. It's not demographics.
The track has a huge number of improvements.

I think since I've seen the rise and fall of motorcycling in Ontario, the blame has to be spread around.
The bike manufacturers and media: From the 80s forward, their marketing has all been about performance, and magazines feature supersports bikes doing wheelies, stoppies, and other stupid things. A 600 is now over 100hp...which is what motoGP bikes were making in the late 70s.
This led to the second part of the problem: poor licencing and riders, which ended up getting killed on SS bikes in record numbers. This also lead to road racing laws, where one blast above 150km/hr on a highway effectively removes your ability to ever ride a bike again.

You could get licence tested on a 125, and immediately buy a 1000. MOT did little to regulate this, unlike Europe, that has power and age restrictions.

This resulted in...the insurance industry, that went from universal coverage to banned lists and rates in the hundreds a month for riders under 30. In Ontario, they pretty much have all political parties in their deep pockets. It's insane that my liability costs on a motorcycle in a country that snows exceed that on my car, which I drive on ice and snow (and pelting rain, etc.). No one seems bothered by the fact that we pay more for insurance than anywhere in North America. I'm continually amazed at how people in the GTA just bend over and take everything in terms of costs.

The result is what we have today: sales plummeted, dealers broke, riding a bike under 25 is not really possible, racing is dying. New bikes? targeted still to riders over 40, with few choices and little variety. Even the manufacturers have cut back with little advertising and marketing -not a single motorcycle manufacturer sponsored the event, or the track (Honda did for >30 years).

Even in the vintage bike realm, insurance is bizarrely capping coverage to 30 years...so what happens to that 25 yr old bike you may want to sell in 5 years?

This means motorcycling is hitting its boutique phase...top end bikes are going to get more expensive, parts and accessories as well. BMW is doing fine, and has the largest presence. Even Harley now promotes their sportster class racing - but none of that is affordable to anyone under 40.

Japan seems not to care. They seem to be focused on cars only at Honda.

This means that the community will continue to shrink, and that means motorcycle riders will not be a lobby for road laws, and riding will get more dangerous as bikes get rarer on the roads (they are already a rare site vs 20 years ago). Between the decline of bikes on the road, and the increase of distracted driving, it is probably one of the most dangerous times to ride.

It's time to go back to, "you meet the nicest people..."

 

[noexit]

I can't even imagine. In Washington State, motorcyclists aren't even required to have insurance. We have decent training, subsidized to $100 for the beginning motorcyle course by motorcycle licensing fees which are $25 every 5 years. You can still legally ride a 1000cc superbike after testing on a 125. I didn't have insurance until I bought my first new bike at 31, but it's only $165 per year.

Do most people not know better? Do they not care? Is there any motorcycle lobby? Here, we have a couple big groups that are politically active at our state capital. It seems like passing a tiered licensing scheme in exchange for a cap on insurance rates would be a reasonable thing to do.

 

[dualitymike]

In Manitoba, my 36 year old Honda 550 costs over $1,200 per year. On top of that, we are charged all of that during the 6 month riding season which means my bike costs in the neighbourhood of $235.00 per month from April to September. Get a vintage motorcycle plate, you say? Well here in Manitoba, a vintage motorcycle plate is only valid while driving to and from motorcycle and car club events and those events have to be registered and cleared by your club with the provincial insurance provider ahead of time. Use the plate on a daily basis or use it to go to an unscheduled event and you're not insured. Get pulled over while doing so and face hefty fines. It's ridiculous but with provincially run auto insurance monopolizing the local industry and no private insurance companies allowed in the province, you just have to pay to play.

 

[caferay]

It's ridiculous but with provincially run auto insurance monopolizing the local industry and no private insurance companies allowed in the province, you just have to pay to play.

But you can get together and lobby your MPP to make changes. Write letters! It does work!

Isla Horvath of the NDP tried to flex a some muscle to reduce premiums in Ontario by 15% in the budget bill -all that did was cause insurance companies to jack up rates 15% before the deadlines date. Did they address this in Parliament? nope. The grandstanding by politicians was done, nothing changed, they don't care. Overall, between car, house and bike, you are still much better off in Manitoba. You likely have better coverage too, actual accident benefits in Ontario has also been slashed. In the US, they get more insurance for far less money, and that's in a system of heavy litigation and high health costs. We have no-fault.

If you invite private insurance back into the province, cost will go up. The myth of competition in the private sectors is nonsense, just look at our awful telecom monopolies in Canada. They spend millions in advertising on TV- the consumer pays for all that.

 

[caferay]

Do most people not know better? Do they not care? Is there any motorcycle lobby? Here, we have a couple big groups that are politically active at our state capital. It seems like passing a tiered licensing scheme in exchange for a cap on insurance rates would be a reasonable thing to do.

That goes to the issue of the post...with all those people quitting riding, there is no effective lobby, and numbers are getting smaller.
Tiered licensing is a smart thing to do regardless of insurance. You see hundreds of ads in Ontario for used bikes where the young rider is selling everything and getting out of bikes. This is for two reasons: either they got nicked and lost their license or insurance, or they crashed and got terrified. "Caronto" hates motorcycles, they would ban them if they could.

BTW, years ago a consortium of bike manufacturers tried to get together to offer their own insurance in Ontario, and the government stopped them. All political parties get millions of support from the insurance industry.

 

[caferay]

I can't even imagine. In Washington State, motorcyclists aren't even required to have insurance. We have decent training, subsidized to $100 for the beginning motorcyle course by motorcycle licensing fees which are $25 every 5 years. You can still legally ride a 1000cc superbike after testing on a 125. I didn't have insurance until I bought my first new bike at 31, but it's only $165 per year.

In 2002. My rate in NC was $130, and that got increased to $1800 in Ontario. Today, it would be $2400++. I think another issue is that really bad riders and drivers are getting subsidized by good drivers and riders.

 

[Pipe Welder]

I think you hit the nail on the head regarding all the issues pushing down the motorcycle industry. The new scooter and electric moped imports don't help to.
I can't understand why we get hit for full pop on a second bike insurance policy also. You can only drive one at a time. Makes no sense and holds a lot of people from having a collection or spending money on their collection.

I usually go to the Mosport Superbike but stayed home this year to work on my bike project.
I think the sports media here doesn't care about anything if it doesn't involve thrown or shooting a ball or puck.
Motors seem to irritate them. I haven't heard a thing on the radio about the race results......so it's hard to get people out without a million dollar ad campaign.

I know a few people out of work due to the industry slump and it makes me wonder if some of the manufacturers will close their Canadian warehouses and distribute from their US plants. Ducati has no Canadian warehouse.

Did you come all the way from NC for the race?
Hope to see you at the VRRA in a couple of weeks.

 

[noexit]

The new scooter and electric moped imports don't help to.

Are scooters treated differently? Scooters are booming here, but as long as they are over 50cc, they fall under the same regulations as motorcycles.

 

[MNBikerPup]

I pay $100 for state minimum here in MN. With the rising cost of fuel like it is, I can't afford a car. Gas is expensive, insurance is expensive etc. So, yup I freeze my ass off in the winter time, taking the bus when the roads are not clear.

 

[Pipe Welder]

Are scooters treated differently? Scooters are booming here, but as long as they are over 50cc, they fall under the same regulations as motorcycles.

As far as I know, here in Ontario Canada you need an "M" for motorcycle with M1 and M2 for graduation.
There is also M with condition "L" for Mopeds and motorized scooters (also called limited speed motorcycles)
Limited speed is up to 70KPH (45MPH) Auto transmission 50CC or less and may have a step through design between the bars and seat. I don't know what the insurance issues are but I know you guys with scooters may have looked at small motorcycles if there was no scooter option. That's how me and my friends got into motorcycles when we were 16 years old.
Kawasaki and Honda sold lots of 90-175 cc bikes back in the day and they we cheap.

I'm not sure if people with mopeds and scooters tend to graduate to motorcycles later. Seems like a different beast to me...

 

[johngofast]

I pay $4.85 a month on one bike for $3000 coverage on the bike + $30,000 liability insurance and a lesser % (can't remember exactly) for each additional bike. Registration annually is around $60.

State Farm, my insurance company has never had an issue insuring my 30+ year old bikes. Usually they can't find a value for it so we have to go off of the value for a modern replacement which is generally a lot more than I have into the bike, so I'm good with that. Doesn't sound fun for you guys up North..

 

[DrJ]

We're not even close to the last Ontario dark age of motorcycling which was back in the mid-90s after no fault insurance did it's damage. I say the sport peaked here in the early 2000s when all dot-comer computer nerds discovered motorcycles and could afford them. Definitely on the decline in certain areas like supersports but cruisers are still strong. Vintage bikes in Toronto have increased a hundred fold. At least my experience and age puts me in the lowest insurance bracket. The only other option is to ride without insurance which many do causing them to run at the sight of police car lights. As with the multibike ownership, if they are at least the same brand, I suggest plate switching.

 

[caferay]

Did you come all the way from NC for the race?
Hope to see you at the VRRA in a couple of weeks.

No, I lived in NC for three years, I now live in Hamilton.

Some companies do give multiple bike policies for collectors.

 

[caferay]

State Farm, my insurance company has never had an issue insuring my 30+ year old bikes. Usually they can't find a value for it so we have to go off of the value for a modern replacement which is generally a lot more than I have into the bike, so I'm good with that. Doesn't sound fun for you guys up North..

These numbers we throw around are for liability only.

 

[caferay]

We're not even close to the last Ontario dark age of motorcycling which was back in the mid-90s after no fault insurance did it's damage. I say the sport peaked here in the early 2000s when all dot-comer computer nerds discovered motorcycles and could afford them.

In the early 80s, motorcycle sales were insane. There were >20 dealers just in the GTA, and every company had many bikes in all size ranges. Here's a chart, it went all south in 2008 again.

 

[caferay]

I'm not sure if people with mopeds and scooters tend to graduate to motorcycles later. Seems like a different beast to me...

Most moped and e-bike riders I see are older.

 

[johngofast]

These numbers we throw around are for liability only.

There is something very very wrong, thats amazing, I'd be a just a motorcycle mechanic building drag bikes if that was the case here. Would not be riding on the streets.

 

[Maritime]

Wow, I thought we got hosed here in NB, but ON is retarded. I pay 57 a month for 6 months (full year coverage) for PLPD on my 79 GL1000. 342 bucks When I had my 450 it was only 100 more for that on the policy as there is only one rider in the house, me.

 

[Kamn]

YES we do get hosed! I paid $1300 last year for my CX mind you I had a couple of blemishes on my record that I cant wait for them to be off my record

 

[johngofast]