Seeley 519 CB750

[surffly]

Cant be much of a help.
I view 95% of the "builds" that slap modern junk on vintage stuff very poorly.
Almost none are an upgrade, and few know how to do the math involved.

I assume that some of the time when you say "axle" you actually mean pivot bolt? They part that mounts the swing arm to the frame?
Either way, yes one can "sleeve" a bearing's ID or OD as needed to run different shafts.

 

[Tune-A-Fish]

Cant be much of a help.
I view 95% of the "builds" that slap modern junk on vintage stuff very poorly.
Almost none are an upgrade, and few know how to do the math involved.

I assume that some of the time when you say "axle" you actually mean pivot bolt? They part that mounts the swing arm to the frame?
Either way, yes one can "sleeve" a bearing's ID or OD as needed to run different shafts.

Okay well it is your thread, and I can respect your opinion... moving on.

 

[surffly]

Seeley 21 Rear Axle Spacers Solved.

I just love when you leave a project sit and when you come back to it everything magically falls into place! Unsure exactly what I was doing wrong, but I am now 90% sure the rear axle spacer issue I was having is worked out.

To just go back for a second, here is the CB550 hub that allegedly was on the frame before. Still cant make it work perfectly though, but that doesn’t really matter as I plan to run Cb750 wheels anyway. The important bit was that I got he correct axle reducer out of the hub.

I was unable to get the “lock nut” off of this hub so that the sprocket carrier could be removed. Lucky a friend from MA is going to mail me one next week. I would have had it yesterday, but he literally packed a hedgehog in his car instead of the hub…..

What I was doing last time was leaving the sprocket carrier on and leaving the brake drum off. I had assumed that it didn’t matter. Well the carrier that I was using looks to be one of the “taller” ones, so it pushed the wheel assembly to far to the left.
Bad angle, but can kind of see it.

But when I assemble things with the stock CB750 brake plate and the Seeley spacer the wheel is right in the center. At this point I have not measured to the tenth of a millimeter, but by eye it is super close.

Its almost like all this junk was meant to fit together….
I will have to get a better measurement to know for sure, but for now I am just happy to be moving in the correct direction.
Was using the Lester for mock up for two reasons, first that’s the wheel I want to run, and second the stock wheel with a tire is fairly heavy to bolt on and off a million times.
With some great tips from members I learned that there are two Honda OEM sprocket carriers. One tall and one short. Never knew that. Seems that I had the taller of the two, and that was not going to jive with the spacers that I already had. Odd that it was on a 74 CB750, but over the years who knows what parts got swapped onto bikes.

If you take a look at Cycle Exchange they have a nice write up on the differences.
http://www.cyclexchange.net/Chain%20Sprocket%20Page.htm

So I guess I am now on the hunt for a shorter sprocket carrier. Hope I don’t run into issues with chain alignment or anything else with the rear once I have one in hand…

 

[xb33bsa]

glad to see progress
but having it centered in the swinagarm or frame means nothing,step one is always to stringline the wheels,get spacers corrected if need be, then look at the sprocket alignment, sprocket alignment is eay to fix

 

[surffly]

Baby steps...lol

 

[ex119x]

glad to see progress
but having it centered in the swinagarm or frame means nothing,step one is always to stringline the wheels,get spacers corrected if need be, then look at the sprocket alignment, sprocket alignment is eay to fix

I dislike to say you are wrong, but in this case you are.
Having the rear wheel centered on the centerline of the frame is absolutely the correct way to have it. If your front and rear wheels don't align, then there is another problem, i.e. the front wheel isn't centered in the forks or the steering neck isn't centered on the frame. Either way, to promote that it is ok to not have the wheels centered on the frame is just sloppy. While there are many examples out there where that isn't the case, that does not make it correct. The center of both wheels should match the centerline of the frame and the steering neck. The only piece that may not be centered is the swing arm since they are not all built to be symetrical.

 

[xb33bsa]

I dislike to say you are wrong, but in this case you are.
Having the rear wheel centered on the centerline of the frame is absolutely the correct way to have it. If your front and rear wheels don't align, then there is another problem, i.e. the front wheel isn't centered in the forks or the steering neck isn't centered on the frame. Either way, to promote that it is ok to not have the wheels centered on the frame is just sloppy. While there are many examples out there where that isn't the case, that does not make it correct. The center of both wheels should match the centerline of the frame and the steering neck. The only piece that may not be centered is the swing arm since they are not all built to be symetrical.

i agree the front wheel needs to be centered on the steering neck and then the wheels need to be inline ..almost always the backbone is on centerline as well
but then the only thing that matters for proper handling is wheels inline of course everything also verified in a vertical plane
what i am saying is you cant assume the wheels are inline just because they "look" centered on the frame
i just went thru this with my 350 build the frame was twisted out of the vertical plane
lots of frame are assymetrikal when it come to engine cradles,swingarms,upper shock nounts and wahtnot

 

[grandpaul]

I have to laugh, having built (and knowing of) MANY Norton Commandos that are typically off centerline at the rear wheel by several 16ths of an inch, a well-known fact of life when dealing with Commandos. Never stopped MANY Commandos from producing world-championship levels of performance, and records that stood for decades.

Sloppy? Yes.

Bad / wrong? Not necessarily.

 

[surffly]

Okay, I’m embarrassed to all hell about how much trouble I have had with the rear of this stupid bike. Even more so about the rash of post with little forward movement.

So I was working on stuff this weekend. Let the dog get drunk instead.

Does something look odd to you? No not the black velvet…..really? Who drinks that?

So I was just failing to try hard enough with mounting the rear wheel.
In this picture I have the two Seeley spacers, the CB750 sprocket carrier and drum all on the CB750 Lester. Seems to all go together fairly well.
But the wheel just looks like it is about half an inch off center. I am eying the rear frame hoop and the swing arm. I am assuming that the swing arm is symmetrical, but don’t see how that is a bad assumption. Also how could the rear frame hoop not be centered? Crudely tried to measure the center. Confirmed what I was talking about.

In the picture it is closer to just a quarter of an inch off.
Did notice this.

But the spacer is seated against the bearing so unsure this could be it.

I know that I have gotten responses from a few people about different ways to align motorcycles I am honest that I fail to visualize what has been said.

What is a simple and effective way of ‘pluming’ the bike?

Starting to greatly fear that something is not as straight as it should be.
On the other hand I did see that the swing arm has a little side to side slop in the frame. Really can not measure much until the head bearings and the swing arm pivot are 100% installed as they should be.

As always; one step forward and two steps back.

xb33bsa,
can you please walk me through what you are talking about?

 

[surffly]

Wanted to post about time frames on projects. While I know that some of my larger “builds” have taken many more years then I thought they would ever take, and some never got finished, I am always amazed to see what other people are able to accomplish in a set time frame. I am baffled and envious of threads that I see constant and steady work being done. Seems like in just a few weeks the owner is done and off enjoying their new bike. Have even watched people do this with bikes that I owned at one point. I always wonder what the magic ingredient is. Do these people have more money? Less friends? An amazing inner drive? Better tools?

For me personally I enjoy to putz around in the shop on a big project. Often in the time it takes me to finish one major project a million others enter and leave the shop. Have assumed that the added distraction of the additional projects elongates the major one. This might be true, it probably is.

I have never been a person to put a deadline on my stuff. When I started the Seeley I was talking to a number of friends and decided to actually shoot for the Mid Ohio event as a target to get the bike “done”. Being honest with myself I didn’t see it as overly realistic, nor did I really care to push to reach the goal. While someone could do this, I don’t think I can. That is not to say the bike will never be finished, but rather that it would not be complete in a few short months. I am juggling travel with a new job, and the rest of life.

That all being said I did view the Seeley in a different way. This is the first time I am starting a project in a location that I am settled. The rest where done while going back to school, changing jobs and just having my whole life in flux. I also overly complicate things by adding new projects on top of others and constantly distracting myself. This time was a chance to be different. First was that I didn’t have anything else to distract me. Actually I struggled to even find shop space to use. The assumption was that I would turn a new leaf and finally be one of those guys that just cranks though a project.

But alas I am not. This is not an admission of defeat, a cry for help or any of that junk. Just a simple observation along my Hipsteresk quest to play with vintage performance motorcycles. I go though times where I spend hours wrenching, working and making headway, then weeks with zero movement. It just kind of is what it is. No complaints at all.

This introspective came after a long few weeks of personal issues. My soon (well at some point) father in law had a stroke. While he is no where near out of the woods yet, he is stable. Him and I work in a very similar way. We both enjoy the time spent just doing stuff. We built a Lionel train set, fixed the deck and would go spend time shooting trap or target shooting. All of these things I gladly did rather then wrench on a broken motorcycle. It just reaffirmed my belief that all of this stuff should be above all fun.

Weather has broken and I brought my CB1100F up to Albany to be my daily mount. Had thought about selling it, but couldn’t give it away for what ever reason. So she stays and will get some use. I do have plans this week to get into the garage and hack away at the Seeley. Had some time quick last week to ease my fears of a twisted frame and what not. With some simple levels I feel that everything is inline with what it needs to be. Will get more detailed next time.

It is fun looking back a few months to when I thought I could just find a solid running bike an swap everything over a weekend….lol

I do want to also thank everyone that has PMed me with offers to help make or source parts. I have had some stupid questions, needed help with simple stuff and just not understood other things. Personally I love to just learn and such. Have gotten to talk to other owners and even Colin! At the end of the day I am having a blast and that’s the important bit.

 

[grandpaul]

I can only speak for myself, but my project time frames have had five major phases in my lifetime:

1. 20-something in the Navy and owner of a small A/C business after getting out. I had plenty of time on my hands and only 1 kid, but not a lot of money. Concentrated on one nice street bike and a couple of dirt bikes. Projects involved repairs & maintenance more than anything else.

2. 30-something, owner of a computer business. Had less time on my hands, a bit more money, a new wyfe and another kid. Didn't do a lot of work on bikes, but slowly built a collection of classic Brit & Jap projects. Slowly played with fixer-uppers, nothing serious.

3. 40-something, got into commercial construction and made GOOD money. Bought some really nice bikes and lots of restoration parts, started restoring my collection. Late 40s, owner of a bike restoration business. Had access to great deals buying in lots for resale, bought a couple of nice bikes, picked up a few rare bits, built a couple of nice customs alongside client builds. This was some of the best times with regard to bikes, due to economy of volume. Projects got done pretty quickly.

4. 50-something, got into vintage roadracing and was turning out projects real quickly due to influx of client money and lots of volume buying and subcontracting paint, powdercoat, chrome work, etc. Fast project turnover and lots of the collection improved.

5. Now late 50s. Working a paycheck again with LONG hours. Adopted a special needs kid who has turned into a 60-pound triple-handful of 4-year-old BOY; This takes a LOT of my "spare" time. Projects have ground to a halt and NOTHING seems to get finished, although I've started a few neat projects lately. Also got stuck with having to physically move my garage, that is taking almost a month. Other commitments typical for a father of 2 kids and there is no way I'll be finishing projects in any "normal" time frame for the forseeable future.

As it is, I have 2 restorations in work, 2 custom builds, 4 ongoing refurb projects to finish, a dozen or so that need serious major tune-ups to get running, and you can see that I won't be doing any highlighted build threads anytime soon...

 

[canyoncarver]

I go though times where I spend hours wrenching, working and making headway, then weeks with zero movement. It just kind of is what it is. No complaints at all.

Same here man, it's about the process for me as well, like a meditation almost.

 

[surffly]

Most amazing update ever!

Not really.
Weather was nice so I was out riding my CB1100F.
Also all of the shop time I had this weekend was devoted to doing maintenance on the CB1100F
-New battery
-New fork seals
-Fixed the brake light switch.
Basic general junk she needed. Found a few small things that will need to be addressed soon too.

Anyway, back to the Seeley.

Installed a center stand that a DTT member was kind enough to ship to me.
Since the bike doesn't have a side stand it make life in the garage a million times easier.

No more jack stands!

Hope to have some time this week to get some stuff done.
Putting a large list together of OEM parts I need to order to start getting the motor running.

 

[surffly]

This might be getting slightly ahead of myself, but I would like to talk tires. Since I am trying to keep this project from taking over my friends garage I would like to get it built up into a roller as fast as possible. I will use the stock wire wheels from the parts bike for now, but the faster I can swap on the Lester mags the better. My plan is to use the stock wheels to barter for some of the other parts I need to keep this project going. I don’t have the space to store them for a rainy day, and would like to move them on to someone that will use them. So if anyone is local and needs a set of stock wheels please feel free to reach out to me.

So here are the tires that I am looking at.

-Heidenau-Thinking either a K44/K36 or a K34/K34 set up. I hear great things from some of my vintage racer friends. Not a lot of information on their street tires out there. They really have a nice look to them. Set looks to run about $260

-Avons-These are the go to tire for old Hondas. I have run them in the past and have not had issues. Just thinking about running something different on the Seeley though. A set is about $200

-Bridgestone BT-45-Have really good reviews. Set runs around $220

-Metzeler Lasertec-Used to be run on a bunch of bikes friends owned. Seem to last well. But they are $300 for a set.

-Dunlop GT501-Have run these before and really liked them. They seem to be discontinued though. Shame.

-Pirelli Sport Demon-These really come recommended and are priced well at $210 a set.

So lets hear some real world experiences and recommendations.

And because no post should be devoid of pictures.

 

[canyoncarver]

I'm a fan of the BT45's . Nice tires.

 

[teazer]

As long as the wheels have back doughnuts on them a.k.a. Rim protectors, save the cash until the bike is ready to rock and roll.

That's a mistake I made too many times and by the time the bike was done, the tires were old and hard. I have used AVONs on race bikes - great tires, Comp K Metzlers - also great race tires back in the day, Now I fit BT45s to anything that I run on the street with old skinny wheels.

 

[xb33bsa]

im thinkin he wants to play dress up and get some "stance" shots

 

[surffly]

im thinkin he wants to play dress up and get some "stance" shots

Go all hellaflush!
I'll wax my beard and drink a cold PBR in the Starbucks parking lot!

 

[surffly]

Seeley24 Redux

In sitting down to write this post I am not sure if I should start with some fortune cookie line about how it takes a big man to admit being wrong. Or wax poetic about how all of these projects are a journey and they take turns. I will however cut right to the chase. This project just got a much needed boost and really has been kicked into gear. A tone of parts are currently in the mail and more are being ordered this week. Will update another time as to what they are and why they were bought.

I went into this project feeling that it would be not that much different then building up any other CB750. Most are behind the eight ball when starting with a basket case, but my plan was to get a solid parts bike and swap stuff. Easy peasy. Well for those that have been following along that didn’t go as planned. Mostly it was my own failings. I was extra cheap and lazy, never a good thing. The parts bike I bought was far from running, and had a whole lot of ugly on it.

So I ended up getting a MUCH better parts bike and redoing much of the work I had already done. I can not thank ATMCycles for the parts bike enough. He offered me a parts bike when I first got this project and has been nothing but helpful throughout this build. This bike was exactly what I needed. The new parts bike was a 76 K. Frame didn’t have a title, and the forks were bent. But the stuff that was important to me was in good shape. Not perfect, but that’s actually more what I wanted. It has just the right amount of “patina” for this project. The bike retained it’s original airbox and had a solid wire harness. First push of the button the engine jumped to life and settled into a nice idle. Didn’t even open the carbs or touch the points. I also have to send a huge thank you to chewbacca5000 for taking the time out of his day and extending his trip home to drop off the bike to me, it was a huge help and time saver. Also it is always fun to put faces to names and shoot the breeze for a bit with people.

So now the bike, because we really are here for pictures.

The wheels on the parts bike cleaned up well enough to make me rethink running the Lesters……for a few minutes at least.

Much nicer then this.

Also I found that the lower bolt hole for the points cover was so soft that it broke off!
So anyone need one semi rotten CB750 engine and one untitled frame?

The great thing is that I am now back on a good track. I have a complete (what I need) bike that runs, and runs well. The theory still remains that if it runs in the stock frame it should be no big deal to make it run in the Seeley. Fingers crossed that I have a running Seeley very soon. Most will not understand how excited I actually am about that.

Unfortunately I lost some time. This work happened before Memorial Day. I had to go to Detroit for a week and lost some time. Not a big deal, just more bummed not being in the shop working on junk. Hope this week I get some time.

 

[canyoncarver]

Awesome.