Some of the results of the holidays - 78 SR500 Street/tracker progress

klx678

Been Around the Block
Here are the shots, let the sh-- fly... :D

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It was a pain to try to figure out how to mount the rear fender. Should it be a loop or a support. I ended up with this support made from a cut up old Yamaha enduro grab rail. It was wedged into the back end of the frame where it was cut off, then welded into place with flat stock formed to fit the fender. There are no mount screws in the photo, but it is rubber mounted with only a pair of button head stainless screw heads marring the smooth rear fender.

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The seat layout was done by measuring up the frame, cutting out a card stock (gift box) pattern that could be easily tested and modifed. Then it was laid out on aluminum and cut out. I originally formed it with a large rolled edge at the front, but realized it would require professional upholstering and be more work, so the pattern got trimmed and refitted, then transferred to the pan and the pan cut again. It is virtually flat and I can actually do the upholstry myself now using rivets and washers from beneath. A bolt anchor plate was made to aid in mounting the seat.

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The whole seat/number plate support system, which will also provide support and location for LED tail/brake lights and plate behind the number plates, was a source of question until this whole "horseshoe" idea came up using the stock seat mount location. It''s not exactly what I wanted because the seat doesn''t angle up at the back. I should have done a better development for the fabricator, who did the breaking of the part. I did do some reforming because it was actually square at the corners where it now has a 45 angle... one of those ideas that took inspiration of sitting in a chair and sipping a beer to get the courage to take the chance of screwing it up. It actually came out fairly clean.


Now for the actual mostly complete mock up.

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Left, Right, Back... I think it''s going to work well.
You can see some of the inspiration in the foreground of the left side view and in the background of the right side view. I would sit in that office chair and just look at the bike while sipping a Honey Brown ale. Plans changed on a regular basis, sometimes after being completed once. Like hammering the seat back mostly flat to recut it... The SR should look much better once I get the frame in silver and something done with the tank. The stainless fender will stay mostly polished. The bike actually has a coat of light oil that was put on it while in storage to try to stop rust, the side cases are already polished. and that duck sign in the background is from the sign department at ODOT from when my father was a traffic control engineer for Ohio.

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Nothing on the front yet, I''m not sure how I''m going to set it up. I might have a source for a very small powerful LED type headlight. If not, my plan is to put my old AMA number from when I did short track, 389, and put a small light in either the top or bottom (or both) loops of the 8. It''s up in the air, as is all the wiring at this point... The bike is shredded now and getting ready for frame grinding on unwanted brackets, some filler for some holes, and a spray bomb coat of Rustoleum metallic silver. It looked good on the Sherpa T frame and should here too. Cheap and able to be touched up easily.

One last big shot that shows the most detail:

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Those are the soft ties dangling from the forks from when I brought it up in the truck.

I hope you like it.
 
A friend and I built the pipe about 15 years ago. About $20 in mandrel bent 1-5/8" tubing from JCWhitney and his expert TIG welding. It was to be nickle plated, but got chromed by mistake - $25. A cheap megaphone muffler caps it off. Unfortunately chrome single wall exhaust turns blue in seconds, but I really didn't care that much.

The rims are stock with the black finish stripped. Spokes would be more appropriate for the style, but I don't have what it takes to build them and I don't really care. The mags look fine.

The tires are "rim protectors", the front is a 110/90-19 Bridgestone Spitfire, the rear is I think a 4.50-18 Continental, both have had some cutting done on them with a tire tread cutting tool (another buddy was a flat tracker).

The engine has a 528cc hi-comp piston, a Megacycle mild dirt cam, a 38mm Mikuni, and the tuned length pipe. I kinda hope it runs as good as it should.

It's in pieces again, but this time for paint. The frame will be silver, the only color for a dirt tracker - as all Bultaco fanatics can understand. I'm hoping to have it done for spring and ride it to Mid Ohio Vintage Days.
 
Well, this last weekend was spent talking/drinking/consulting/insulting/laughing with a few friends in the garage. I wan'ted opinions on the upholstery material I'd chosen. I took opinions on the layout of the bike - they wanted me to shorten the rear fender, I told them what they could do with that opinion. Before they showed up I had pulled the engine from the frame - oil leakage all over the place with those darn dry sump engines. After they left I laid out the upholstery pattern and cut it out of card stock, the top is already defined from my seat base template I needed the side panels. Then I tore down the rest of the bike to the bare frame/swing arm. Now to clean, sand, and paint when I go back up there. As for now, I plan to lay out and cut the vinyl for the seat. Depending on the results, I do have my old leather jacket I could cut up to make another seat cover if I want to.

Later...
 
klx678 said:
Here are the shots, let the sh-- fly... :D

bikepics-1867003-full.jpg


It was a pain to try to figure out how to mount the rear fender. Should it be a loop or a support.

Hi klx!
Did you realize that the top halfs of the ugly sheets at the stock rearframe can be flexed[1] off
and there's some nice tubing under it? Looks much cleaner with the sheets removed! Think I'll
cut a frame tomorrow and post the pix to show what I mean...

Concerning the color I think black is best to hide the ugly OEM weldings and sheets.


Best regards
Sven


[1] Flex (german): anglegrinder
 
scm said:
Hi klx!
Did you realize that the top halfs of the ugly sheets at the stock rearframe can be flexed[1] off
and there's some nice tubing under it? Looks much cleaner with the sheets removed! Think I'll
cut a frame tomorrow and post the pix to show what I mean...

Concerning the color I think black is best to hide the ugly OEM weldings and sheets.


Best regards
Sven


[1] Flex (german): anglegrinder


Thanks for the tip. If you're talking about that ugly metal work on the drive side of the frame where the passenger peg tubes were mounted. I do to an extent. I saw some shots where someone cut it all off, either on this forum or the SR500 forum, but I also realize some of those "ugly sheets" also function as gusseting so why screw with removing strength. Ever notice there is no similar strenghtening on the other side? Tells me there must be adequate stress on that down tube to require engineering for additional strengthening. It is the drive side with the chain pulling forces in that direction against that tube. That sheeting is that additional strengthening. It wouldn't be there otherwise, no way the engineers spend money for something they don't need down there and that ugly. (I knew that Mechanical Engineering Related Technology degree would come in handy some time.)

So that stays with a bit of filler where the one tube enters along with some at the top and bottom openings to be sanded and smoothed for a better more finished look. The last thing I want to find is my frame either flexing or bending because I took off material without considering why it is there. I will admit it could look a lot nicer and that's part of the minor filling process. Probably use JB Weld or the like as filler.

If you're also talking about up around the shock area, it doesn't bother me too much, since I don't have a welder to rework or rebuild that area and this is a bit of a budget build. Remember, I'll likely have less than $1000 in the project. If I had a wire feed and some good welding skills I might do different. But guys race this frame as is in roadracing and flat tracking, so it definitely has some decent strength which I will not intentionally compromise.

As I said, I'm doing this as if I planned to race it and it's on a very tight budget. As for frame color, I'm a Bultaco guy at heart... If Bulto ever built a four stroke it would be like an SR. Bultaco flat trakers had silver frames and their welds sucked too, so silver it is. But I do appreciate your comments.
 
Hey KLX, you do some great work. Keep it up.

Do you have your own little website or something with pics of your old bikes? I remember when I first got my Honda I did a google image search for different bikes of the era and I think it was your site for some reason. Ever since I joined DTT and saw your avatar I was trying to figure out why it looked familiar.
 
klx678 said:
If you're also talking about up around the shock area,...
Yep, that's what I meant. The sheets come from below and reach over the frame tube.
Top section can be cut away. Nothing special, won't make it a CCM, just to clean up the
rear-frame a bit (and perhaps save some 1/4 lb ;)).


it doesn't bother me too much,...
That's alright, if you're bike is gonna be street legal, an hour saved in the workshop might
be one gained on the road!

Remember, I'll likely have less than $1000 in the project.
respekt.gif


But guys race this frame as is in roadracing and flat tracking, so it definitely has some
decent strength which I will not intentionally compromise.
Yep, some guys are really fast with stock SR (and XT) frames.
Compare it to an old Ducati-single or an Aermacchi frame and guess which
is stiffer (and approx. twice as heavy ;D)

I'm a Bultaco guy at heart...
Rängdängdäng! ;D

One of the guys in our races has a 350 Bulto roadracer, must be the loudest
Zwiebacksäge[1] (as we call it over here) ever...

so silver it is.
I like silver too! If only the old Yammi weldings were a bit cleaner... :'(


Best regards and good luck!

Sven


[1] Zwiebacksäge: lit.:rusksaw, german slang for 2stroke engine/motorcycle
 
Big R said:
Hey KLX, you do some great work. Keep it up.

Do you have your own little website or something with pics of your old bikes? I remember when I first got my Honda I did a google image search for different bikes of the era and I think it was your site for some reason. Ever since I joined DTT and saw your avatar I was trying to figure out why it looked familiar.

Thanks for the comments. I'm finally anxious to get the SR done. Been too long.

I have pictures on http://www.bikepics.com/members/klx678/ . Some are my bikes, but the flat trackers in the one area are just ones I liked or used for inspiration on the SR.

I also have a web site www.kriegercamchaintensioners.com for the Cam Chain Tensioners I make for Kawasakis, Suzukis and anything else I can get the chance to do.
 
seems like a lot people around here are looking for smaller Honda CCTs. why dont you get in to making those?
 
I guess I need to get someone to tell me what ones and I can see if I can make something for them. I know I can't do the ones that have the roller or sprocket drive set up. I do make them for virtually all Kawasaki four strokes though. I am also doing the DRz400 and RMz. I am setting up for the CBR600s now. It's been a lot of fun doing them though. I can hardly wait to see if some of the guys that got them show up at Mid Ohio vintage days.
 
How much do you charge for a cam chain tensioner for a kz 750? Bike looks good. I would love to have an old tt 500 bored out and trackered Keep it up.
 
thompsonmx100 said:
How much do you charge for a cam chain tensioner for a kz 750? Bike looks good. I would love to have an old tt 500 bored out and trackered Keep it up.

I have them for $30 plus shipping, which is $4.95 in the U.S. and $13.45 outside the U.S. I have three of them in the UK for the Zephyr Zone guy who bugged me into making them for the 750. Here's a shot of one:

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The thru bolt was long on his, but i think I used a 110 mm bolt to be certain it was long enough. I'm now using a 90 mm bolt and with the acorn/lock nut set up it allows you to shorten it if you wish. It comes with the Kawasaki gasket.

I'm sort of international as a friend pointed out. I've sold tensioners to 17 US states, 9 countries, over 4 continents. I am sending out two KLX tensioners, one to Canada and one to Latvia... yes, Latvia! I've sent them to Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia, Singapore, Finland, and the UK. I'm getting a geography lesson with them. It's not making big money, but it's fun. I have some references I've used with permission. I need to get them on my web site some time. Here's my favorite, comparing the tensioner to a national big name one, but I used Xs in place of the name.

Well I have an {XXX tensioner} for my CBR600 and the build quality of the Krieger tensioner is far better regardless of price. Also the instructions were top notch, and the {XXX} had none. Every angle I look at it shows your tensioner being superior. – Trevor

I use PayPal for payment, but will do a check or money order in the U.S. I usually will send a money request that makes it easy to make payment. Just email me I think you can do that from this forum. If not, go to www.kriegercamchaintensioners.com and email me from there. I have one sitting on the shelf ready to send, 2 days in the U.S. and 8-10 outside the U.S.

Darn, was that a commercial I just wrote? I guess so, but hey, you asked.

By the way, the Yamaha singles are a breeze to work with and already have a manual tensioner! ;D
 
What a fantastic build!!..

I love exhaust!.. where can I get one of those?? ;D
 
locO leoN said:
What a fantastic build!!..

I love exhaust!.. where can I get one of those?? ;D

For what it's worth you can't get one unless I sell mine. We built it with mandrel bent tubing from JC Whitney about 15 years ago.
 
klx678 said:
For what it's worth you can't get one unless I sell mine. We built it with mandrel bent tubing from JC Whitney about 15 years ago.

hows the bike coming along?.. any further progress?
I noticed on ebay that there are may XT/TT500 headers that look very similar...
 
Well, it's been a while... to put it mildly.

The project is afoot again.

Here's the mock up again:

bikepics-1867011-full.jpg


Getting the frame soda blasted put everything in gear. I had to paint so it didn't rust. The plan is a throwback to my Bultaco days. Before all the converted Japanese motocrossers of the 70s most flat trackers I saw (or should we say noticed) had silver or nickle plated frames, so it has to be silver:

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Yes, the frame is pretty much as is. I cut off some tabs and ground a bit, but no special work on the welds and all that stuff. I didn't bother taking off all the little spatter from the factory. The approach is to build a nice short tracker - then put the lights on it. That means no hundreds of hours grinding, filling, grinding, and sanding the welds and seams. It means make it functional get some paint on it and ride it.

This summer I was at races held at Western Reserve Motorcycle Club grounds in eastern Ohio near Salem. I learned they do occasional open track days and one of the tracks is their short track. It's a nice track. I want to do it.

So now the project is back under way after a year of stuff sitting around. I did get tapered head set bearings, swingarm bearings, and other bits along with my wife stitching up a seat cover for the pan I made.

I'm hoping to have things cooking soon. Maybe three or four months. The tensioner sales is pushing the project financially. It will open up the possibilities to go with Dunlop 180s if I want and probably some new or good used 13" shocks to get the stance right and pull in the rake a bit.

I'll try to post up along the way.
 
Now for the next steps. Tapered head set bearings installed and front end on. The centerstand is there because I find it much easier to start the bike vertically than on the side stand. It is painted black so as to kind of recede into the background when in contrast against the silver frame.

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I have the swingarm ready to go in when I get the plastic bearing guard roller. Next time I get to work on it, we should have a roller at the least and probably have the engine in the frame.
 
New information after doing a ton of digging...

The Dunlop K180 is apparently no longer available in the U.S., so no modern 4.00-18 or 3.50-19 around any more. What a shame.

Apparently the Cheng Shin C180 which was a K70 tread copy is unavailable now too.

That leaves a very narrow choice for the rider with a 19/18 front/rear rim combination. The only matched choice is the Dunlop K70 set. Duro lists both a 4.00-18 and a 3.50-19 front in four ply, but only the 4.00-18 is available to any extent and it is limited. The Duro HF308 IS available in a 4.00-19, but it is a six ply replacement tire for Urals and such. Way stiff.

Beauty - the Duro 4.00-18 four ply sidewall on ebay (http://compare.ebay.com/like/280831275151?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar) and from some suppliers. The tire is a match for the old Pirelli MT53. Here is a shot of that tire:

MT53PatternI.gif


I got it for $73 including shipping on ebay. It seems like a decent tread compound. Problem is Duro is not importing the HF308 in a 3.50-19 at this time. If more people contact Duro, it might happen. It takes demand. They're way less expensive than the Dunlop K70 on MSRP, although Bike Bandit has the K70 for about $10 more than the Duro right now as a special.

I went with the Duro for the rear in hopes the tire will wear better than the K70s I've used. The modern K70 compound is a bit too soft. Plus I actually used an MT53 back in the day on the Bultaco short tracker, so why not.

As said, I got the Dunlop K70 3.50-19 for the front since it is pretty much the only thing out there with the right tread. It cost as much as the rear Duro. There is also the K70 4.00-18 too. They're made as a replacement for the Triumph T120 and the BSA 650 twins that ran them as OEM in the 60s and 70s. Here's a shot of the K70:

dunlop_k70_tires.gif


I'll be running the K70 front and HF308 rear to see how it goes. The reason for the sizes are I have an 18 rear rim and the fatter 4.00 front will slow steering too much on the road use and the Duro is a six ply and Dunlop doesn't do the 4.00-19 K70.

Again, I am not running the K70 4.00-18 rear because, as I said, they wear out really fast due to the coarse block tread and soft compound. They stick great, but wear lousy on the back. I'm hoping the Duro does better and hoping if enough of us call for it, the 3.50-19 will become available. I have half a notion to buy another 4.00-18 just because, but I don't know how it's going to feel yet. The look is there, but I'll need a bit more than that to buy another and stash it for later.

I think Duro could do well if they did just a bit of promotion of the HF 308 as a street/tracker, vintage, and brat bike tire. It would be nice if the 4.00-19 was a four ply, but for those who want fat, the six ply will work. For those who want the performance and ride the smaller sizes could do the trick. Contact Duro direct to let them know there is demand for the Pirelli copy tread 308. http://www.durotire.com/Tires.aspx




Later...
Mark
 
Good info. Those true tracker tires are tough to find and pricey when you do find them. Any reason you're sticking to the inch sizing? I did the same on my BMW - just installed new Avon Roadriders partly because they were available in the 3.25/19 and 4.00/18 sizes I wanted - makes a difference in handling on the Airheads, and the Michelin Macadam's I used to use have been discontinued.
 
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