soo... anyone actually run nitrous?

dp9

dp9

Coast to Coast
so hard to find info on old bikes with nitrous, or im just not looking in the right place. either way, anybody here ever throw some spray at their ride? if so, what was your setup? wet or dry, what fuel pump, where did you plumb the nozzles, how did you mount the solenoids, etc. etc.
 
It is a good way to have to clean your motor of the road with a dust pan. Also junk oem pistons and rods will not take it
 
knew that was coming. thanks for your input, but I prefer to take a more pragmatic approach to motorcycle modification. unless of course you're speaking from experience, then I'd very much like to know the type of setup you were running, on what bike, what you were doing just before it distributed internal components across the asphalt, etc.


A properly sized shot of NO2 in a well tuned system/motor is a 60+ year old (read: older than our bikes) way to add power, yet the mere mention of the subject conjures scoffing remarks from what could be mistaken as the "peanut gallery." At the same time however, turbos and blowers garner excitement and awe while posing a very similar promise of power and corresponding threat of destruction. Any poorly tuned engine has the potential to fail. With the addition of a power adder the result is simply more impactful, so to speak ;) . Similarly there are also well tuned engines that incorporate power adders, producing the result that makes some of us, god forbid, try to use them.


I do hope we're through with that portion of this thread so that we can move forward to the meat of the topic, if there is any. anyone have any experience with nitrous on an old air cooled motorcycle?
 
A motor needs to be built around the, turbo, sc ,nos, you will need a proper built motor to take it is all im saying, cnc pistons, heavy rods the cylinders will need o-ringed some thing as simple a having the bike out in the sun will change the way it acts. the guys i know that run a nos on water cooled drag bikes pull there motors down after a night of racing, change there oil after a pass. Your +ing cylinder pressure and temp several times over. Any ruff casting marks in the combustion chamber is a hot spot and can result in a crack or a valve seat drop. It is also very hard on crank bearings. There is more to it than putting a system on and ridding. but it would be bad ass Good luck
 
I ran nitrous on my 700cc mountain sled. I loved it, and it was pretty easy power. I have thought about it on my bikes as well, but did not do it after considering the following:

1. Nitrous has to be used at WOT for any real advantage. Using it below full throttle is simply wasting it since you are not developing full natural power yet anyway. On a sled this worked, on my bikes, not as practical. It is much more challenging to use except in holeshot street applications, or if you just really want to go fast!

2. If you are at WOT on most motorcycles, you are already going really, really freaking fast (at least on my bikes)

3. You have to have a ready supply of nitrous, since once you start using it, you will never stop.

With all this in mind, you can see why people favor turbos over nitrous on a bike--you will have more power useable to you, although not necessarily more power.

But, if you really want to do nitrous, Boss industries makes a setup that will work with an older carbed system (Harleys for example) in which you do not have to alter timing at gas introduction. You will run a pony bottle of high octane (race or Av gas) in addition to your nitrous bottle, and it will inject wet with the nitrous. Search information on Boss Noss. I ran a 30 HP Boss system on my EFI sled on 91 octane, and I loved it.

As far as realiablity goes, if you set it up right, and don't abuse it, it will work fine. A piston with a taller top land before the first ring will help inmmensly. So will a water cooled bike, rather than air cooled. Exhaust temperature is the real killer with nitrous, as your exhaust temps go through the roof. an EGT probe would be very helpful. I could run about a max 10 second run with my 30 shot before temps started to really get high. You will eventually notice erosion on the edges of the piston top from heat if you use it much (you will).

But like any performance idea, it will work well if you set it up right, and will be more work and tuning on your bike to keep it running right. Performance and extra work go hand in hand. If you like all of that, and this is the way you wnt it, I say go for it, and show us what you did!
 
I think all Brad was saying is that the majority of vintage motors cant handle the rapid power increase and temp fluctuations without some heavy engine work. Thats true. As Rev stated, timing and fuel delivery become an issue. There are some large displacement HD motors Ive seen running nitrous on the street, as they are capable of handling the massive amounts of power that can be produced. My issure with nitrous is that its a drag racers tool. Great for a straight line over a short distance, where turbos and mechanical supercharging provide a more usable power addition throught the rev range when tuned correctly. I have some interesting articles on the technical aspects of nitrous in motorcycle applications Ill link when I get to a computer. That said, theyre almost 100% exclusive to drag and landspeed racing machines.
 
my buddy runs a shot on his built harley motor, has it on a full throttle switch... had to basicly change EVERYTHING inside the motor to run it... i have a built motor in my and i still can not run a shot as my pistons will not take it... stock old bike. no way! would blow it up, holes int he pistons bent rods and valves in the first shot
 
Thanks t71. Did you have any motor work done to that sled? Did it die a firey death in a ball of nitrous induced flames? I hear ya on having a ready supply. I know guys who are straight up addicted. As a point of interest, Ive learned that its entirely possible to hit WOT in every gear :D .


jrk, how big of a shot does your friend run? also, whats up with your weak pistons? I didnt think they made crappy pistons for hd's ;) . i kid, i kid.
 
I am running SE flat top pistons you need forged pistons to run a shot, also my intake and exhaust valves would have to be opened up to handle the combustion... my head work is not set up for NOS, i think he runs a 34hp shot, that is the most you can use on a carbed bike without hving some sort of way to adjust the timing turring spray... most sleds that are either race built or mountain built come with beefed up top ends. i would doubt he had to do anything to the top end to run NOS but i would also bet it was a 2008+ sled from the pics i have seen of him out ripping...
here are some pics of my buddy chads build

not only did the top end have to be worked but the lower end as well, Its an 03 crank (forged), had it trued and welded, and did the timken bearing upgrade.

when i texted him to ask what shot he is running his response was "dude you will blow up your motor, your pistons can not handle it" hahaha texted him back saying you where wondering for vintage scoot with stock motor, his response "hahahaha be sure he has a trailer follow him up the street for his first shot so he does not have to push it all the way home"

Ford is right though you will want to use it all the time! he built a refill station so he can do it in his garage in no time


ee4c2a73.jpg


7812cd52.jpg


61857209.jpg


duell spigot petcock to handle the fuel flow
7f04cf89.jpg


Run number 029 is from 2 years ago, the other two are from today. Lower one is on motor, upper one is on spray

c1105b48.jpg
 
your buddy has a nice system with some nice results. looks like he went all out and did it right. I like the petcock, lol. Was that the closest he could get the nozzles to the heads? having his own refill station must be nice, not to mention expensive.


your SE's are cast? I hear ya on running spray on a higher static cr motor. aside from the higher potential for destruction, the power production is also a little less evident by the seat of the pants meter.
 
from what i am told the major issue is there is just not enough meat to them to take the combustion increase from a shot... that is the ideal spot for the nozels on that build to allow for the best flow. 144 hp on a harley motor makes for a wild ride! funny as hell at lights when sport bikes go ripping off and he is right there with them... Hell on my 95 build i am just shy of 100/100, but after the 2-1 pipe this winter i will easily clear it
 
The sled held up great to it. I put about 1000 (mountain) miles on it, and probably ran about 50 lbs of nitrous through it with no problems pulling 175+ hp from a 700cc two stroke. I constantly checked piston wash and EGT's though, to make sure nothing was happening. You will have more maintenance.

If you are set up right, and keeping the octane of your fuel high enough to prevent detonation, and keep enough fuel added to prevent a lean condition, you can use it successfully for a long time. You really have to pay attention to how long you are on the button, though, as your EGT's go high really fast. Check with Boss, their product support guys are pretty helpful.

Like Von said, its really better in a drag race situation than for regular street riding, unless you just want a thrill from time to time.

A 30 hp hit is pretty mild, and I think the crank and bearings would hold up to it ok for awhile. I think the real concern on an air cooled bike will be your cylinder and exhaust temps. The thinner the top land of your piston, the shorter time you can run it.
 
I guess I'll be the dissenting opinion on this one...

You CAN run nitrous on an otherwise stock bike. You do not need forged pistons, custom crank, chrome moly rods or any of that other stuff. In my opinion, all that extra gear is in place on so many nitrous builds because the builders are attending to the symptoms of failure rather than the causes.

As mentioned, igniting a nitrous/fuel mixture generates a lot of heat. However, (unless I missed it) no one has mentioned what happens to the speed of the flame front generated from the spark. A nitrous mixture burns a lot faster due to the increased oxygen available and that is almost always compounded further by an increase in available fuel as well. In short, your spark is now firing too early and cylinder pressures not only increase due to the added fuel and oxygen, but also peak earlier because the piston is (sometimes) still compressing while the mixture gases reach their peak point of expansion.

The simple answer is to retard the timing while under boost.

Also, bear in mind, there's a reason why nitrous is measured in horsepower (25 shot, 50 shot, etc). That's how much HP you're adding to the mix, regardless of engine speed. For those of you who are aware of the relationship between torque and horsepower, you know full well that achieving higher horsepower at lower RPMs means a disproportionate increase in torque. Nitrous is not metered like fuel through your carbs, you get the same amount whether your engine is running at 3000 RPM or 9000 RPM. Injecting NO at low RPMs means the forces within each cylinder increases DRASTICALLY over what it would at high RPMs. Many folks say that you should only use NO at WOT, but this doesn't have to do so much with your throttle position as much as it has to do with the assumption that at WOT you'd be running at high RPM.
 
All I keep imagining is something going wrong and a rider hitting that GO! button while acclerating out of a tight corner, all leaned over. Say in 3rd gear... Baaaaad news.
 
i have rode several juiced up bikes... to be honest Mike none of them pulled like that. all the shots are regulated by the throttle and had very very smooth power as the shot kicks in... the bussa i rode did have alot of UMPH but they do anyway... main thing i wonder is how the power would kick in on a vintage scoot like a 350. would it roll in smooth like it is supposed to or like you are saying here pop in hard, with that skinny pizza cutter tire i would see it breaking loose and going sideways without a stability control on the bike... but then agian it is only a 350, how much UMPH can it get ya know
the first time i rolled the throttle back and pinned the button i was ready for anything but the air shifter kicked in and did its thing and i was blown away by how smooth it ws... i have yet to ride my buddys HD, and to be honest, i will never ask to... but watchin him pull away it is like a freigh train... he struggles to keep it behind him with a tru track stabilizer system on the bike... but looks like a blast!
 
yup sonreir, its all bout tuning. one little thing on the terminology that been bothering me.. we keep saying WOT, but no2 should be applied at peak torque. Its not a cv carb, we have to quote application in rpms.


von, thats what life insurance is for ;D . theres an arming switch for the system, too.


agreed jrk. laugh, yeah, not too many options with a small cc engine. it'll act like a slightly larger cc engine.. or die. a 10-20 shot on a 450T sounds like it would briefly ride like a 550 or 750.


anyone else actually run NO2?
 
I've run nitrous on many vehicles and still have it on my 05 Busa. I have never had an issue with it. The main thing is proper setup. Safety devices to apply and disengage nitrous are a must along with proper fuel enrichment. Also, DO NOT GET GREEDY with nitrous! If a little feels good, more must be better? NO! STOP! My approximate power boost is between 40-50hp. Could I get more? Yea, lot's more! But, like I said, no need to get greedy. I now have 53,000 trouble free miles on my Busa. I have lost track of how many bottles I've run through this bike. I think it likes it!

BTW, Check these guys out. They have great prices and a wide selection of parts. If you need any technical assistance you'll get a person on the phone that actually knows what their talking about:
http://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store/scripts/default.asp
 
Whoa, that is a LOT of miles!

Do you enrich with regular gas, race fuel, or meth?

What safety devices are you running, what's your setup?

Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using Tapatalk
 
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