symbol meanings

[mikeadamstattoo]

on another post, someone commented an old pic of a biker with a swastika on his bike.

im sure this guy meant it as a negative symbol, but it's mainly a symbol of peace, and not all swastikas are symbols of hate and prejudice.

its one of the oldest symbols in history actually. just because hitler chose it as his party's symbol, (because its such a well known and recognizable one) it has such a negative presence with it. it sucks.

a hindu man was making copies at kinkos for his church, and it has a swazi on the paper he was copying. (its a hindu symbol meaning good things) and he was harrassed and thrown out by other people in line and called a nazi.

same goes for an upside down cross, people think thats a sign of the devil or something, but jesus wasnt the only person to die on a cross. back in those days, that was a way of execution/public humliation.

if jesus was hanged, would christianity's symbol be a noose?

share your thoughts on these and any other symbols that may mean different things to different people.

 

[crazypj]

I'm with you on this, ignorance and intolerance seem to be particular traits among 'religious' people

 

[Erch]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiotics

Most fun I ever had in a university class.



Such is the nature of language though: you can argue till the cows come home that the word is spelled "through". But if somebody writes "thru", somebody else reads it and understands the meaning, well then it's naturally part of the language now.

On a segway though: Satanism is a funny thing. There's a form a Satanism (theistic or Lucifernians) that believe in the metaphysical, god, angels and all that jazz, they just see Lucifer or Satan as their deity. These guys use much of the Christian symbolism, usually warped or reversed and (understandably) get quite a bit of negative press in return.

Atheistic (The main sect being LaVeyan) Satanists, are more against the idea of organized religion as a whole and typically believe and rely on the self. These guys are agnostics and use symbolism like the inverted cross to show their disapproval of religion as an organization.


Here's a little comparison:

Here's a theistic Satanist's idea of the "anti-cross"

Here's the agnostic Satanist's idea of the "anti-cross"



Thought I'd use add as a footnote that I'm an agnostic, raised Anglican, and by no means part of any kind of religion or belief system at the moment.

Also relevant to the discussion, I come from a German background, with my grandfather serving in the German infantry (and luckily never seeing action) and a great uncle that died on the Bismarck as a radio operator. I'm proud of my cultural heritage, but obviously not of the decisions a few manic men leading counties of desperate and distraught people. If I were to apologize for the actions of my German ancestors 60 years ago, I'd first have to apologize for the actions of my British ancestors over 230 years ago.

My point being this: symbols and language evolve. The Swastika still remains fresh in the minds of the generation that saw it as a symbol of oppression and their children. Let me ask you this: how much longer do you think the numbers "9/11" will still primarily refer to the world trade center attacks?

 

[Represto]

Who could confuse a south asian man for an aryan nazi?

 

[boingk]

Yeah peoples reactions to things sometimes gets on my nerves.

Classic car = Ugly & unreliable. Reality? My 30 year old Valiant hasn't broken down in a good half decade, and I've often driven past people in much newer cars who have simply overheated them or otherwise come to grief. Thats a fact. I also fall in love with it each time I look at it, and thats my opinion and can't be swayed.

Old bikes = Unstylish and slow. Yeah? Well why are new R1's ripping an 11s quarter mile when a GS1100 got tested at an 11.4 quarter back in 1980? Wheres the progress there? (Oh right...BMW with its stock 1000RR pulling an 8.48 ;D)

And yes, language evolves a long way. We have an icecream here thats caramelly vanilla kinda icecream coated in choc and biscuit bits. Its called a 'Gaytime'. Theres no way that name would fly if it were invented today but because its been around since the term meant 'Good Time', and is intended to mean that, there is no objection.

- boingk

 

[Speedfiend]

on another post, someone commented an old pic of a biker with a swastika on his bike.

im sure this guy meant it as a negative symbol,

I don't know the bike or rider which your refering too, but the swazi's place in biker culture is NOT racist. It first came to promanance with bikers in the 60's with bike gangs. It was used purely for shock value to freak out the squares. Like open mouth kissing each other, though most weren't gay.

As for earlier meanings of the symbol, well, it doesn't really matter cause we all know how it will be interpreted.

 

[Uncle Ernie]

"On a segway though: Satanism is a funny thing. "

? Does this mean that standing on a modern 2-wheeled contrivance one more fully appreciatesd the humour of Satan?
Or did you mean "segue"?

Anyhoo- For lovers of the symbol mentioned, I'm afraid the madern incarnation of Satan has removed all other meanings in all European and American cultures. There are some things you just don't do or say in many other lands that we are used to doing. IN this and similar cultures, the swastika means one thing only.
Interestingly, I recall a tool make who had the swastika on their tools, along with their company name. All that's changed now.

That doesn't excuse the people at Kinko's for being totally stupid, though. The United States is famous for producing stupid people, however.

 

[t71ford]

I'm with you on this, ignorance and intolerance seem to be particular traits among 'religious' people

actually, just 'people' in general...

 

[SquadraCorse]

Regardless of the users intention of displaying swastikas, upside down crosses, etc. There's no denying that history and events change the meaning of things over time. If I had flew an upside down American flag in my yard with a flag bearing a swastika beneath it, and told you some story on how they each meant something different to me than the symbology they initially convey, would you be cool with it?

 

[Aetsh]

Regardless of the users intention of displaying swastikas, upside down crosses, etc. There's no denying that history and events change the meaning of things over time. If I had flew an upside down American flag in my yard with a flag bearing a swastika beneath it, and told you some story on how they each meant something different to me than the symbology they initially convey, would you be cool with it?

I'd be fine with it, each his own. This is America, right?

I don't think it would last more than a few days..only because alot of people do see it as bad, but I think people would destroy it one way or another..it would be pretty taboo and freak alot of people out, and make alot of vets pretty pissed I bet!

 

[Drewski]

I'm with you on this, ignorance and intolerance seem to be particular traits among 'religious' people

I'm with "t71ford" on this one. Ignorance and intolerance are human conditions that are not reserved for the "religious" by any means. :-[

 

[Erch]

Regardless of the users intention of displaying swastikas, upside down crosses, etc. There's no denying that history and events change the meaning of things over time. If I had flew an upside down American flag in my yard with a flag bearing a swastika beneath it, and told you some story on how they each meant something different to me than the symbology they initially convey, would you be cool with it?

That's the thing though: it's the majority that decides what the meaning of symbols and symbols are. You can nail a cat to a board and call it art but you're still going to get arrested for it.

 

[Speedfiend]

Who could confuse a south asian man for an aryan nazi?

( I don't really have any point with this post, just thought it was interesting)

Have you seen any of the custom bikes coming out of Japan recently?
From the Mooneyes Show Tokyo

Weird, huh?

 

[mikeadamstattoo]

yeah japanese chopper builders seem to love swazis right now haha

 

[mrkil]

you'll notice the Swastika (g-yung drung) under the eagle is the left facing Tibetan and other Asian way round Not the reverse which Hitler made famous which was more of the Indian way of representing it.

 

[4eyes]

"You can nail a cat to a board and call it art but you're still going to get arrested for it."
I think we just found your signature line. ;D
By Indian, do you meen Native American or "I'm telling you" Indian?
Because the symbol in question was widely used by native tribes in this hemisphere.

 

[xcaptainxbloodx]

I don't know the bike or rider which your refering too, but the swazi's place in biker culture is NOT racist. It first came to promanance with bikers in the 60's with bike gangs. It was used purely for shock value to freak out the squares. Like open mouth kissing each other, though most weren't gay.

As for earlier meanings of the symbol, well, it doesn't really matter cause we all know how it will be interpreted.

^truth.

98% of swazi's on bobbers and choppers are either survivor bikes from the 50s or 60s or an homage to those bikes. doesn't matter which way its facing in this context as they will all be received the same way. the japanese bike with the buddhist facing one being supported by the german falcon is awesome because it both looks back upon the oldschool use and at the same time looks forward (or further back depending on how you take it) by using the peaceful orientation.

 

[Kev Nemo]

In this day and age, wouldn't it be more shocking to put an Islamic crescent on your bike? I also noticed that I coincidently put the Lucifersigilen:

in the middle of a sketch I did yesterday.

Sometimes, I think we as higher-thinking animals pick up/use certain patterns for thousands of years because they hit us on some kind of primal/ subconscious level. I'm having the most fun in my art right now exploring those concepts.

 

[t71ford]

all true, but...

I think this brings up an important discussion of "Just because we can, does it mean we should". I am a firm believer in individual right, and I believe you have the right to do many things. But, I also believe that just because you have the right to do something does not mean that it can be done in good taste. I think to put something like a Swazi on a motorcycle in America is going to draw one connotation only, no matter of the rider's earnest effort to actually be displaying homage to "Eastern ideals" or whatever excuse your are using. All you will do is draw furtive looks from the respectable, hardworking John Q. Public who is not as eclectic and enlightened as you are. I would venture that most putting something like this on their bike are going for this exact shock-and-awe, and simply use some excuse of some obscure symbol meaning when put to task for a flagrant display of social retardedness.

Now, I realize that DTT has a very diverse group, and few of us actually color within society's lines. There is incredible knowlege and insight put out here that reflects all of our collective personalities. But, come on. Scaring little old ladies with your motorcycle adorned with Hitler's crest (only YOU know the eagle points the wrong way, making it "eastern" and not Nazi :) does not make you enlightened or eclectic. It pretty much just makes you a jackass granny-scarer.

You have the 'right' to do whatever you want, and I will readily concede that point to anyone. But you should also remember that everyone else has the 'right' to arrive at whatever conclusion about you they decide to light upon, and only you have the power to change that.

As usual, I will add my disclaimer that this is NOT directed at any individual, and simply represents my interpretation of the individual right vs. individual responsibility idea.

 

[newguyj]

That's the thing though: it's the majority that decides what the meaning of symbols and symbols are. You can nail a cat to a board and call it art but you're still going to get arrested for it.

If the cat was dead first you might not get arrested...