the jaguar bike has been one upped...
- Thread starter Basement rat
- Start date
SquadraCorse
Coast to Coast
"Experience a Whole New Magical Way to Ride.
Feel Far More Connected With the Bike
and More a Part of the World Around You."
Bold Contemporary Beauty with a Traditional Elegance.
Balance. Passion. Soul. Moves with You. Adapts to Your Ride.
"It is almost alive".
:
:
Feel Far More Connected With the Bike
and More a Part of the World Around You."
Bold Contemporary Beauty with a Traditional Elegance.
Balance. Passion. Soul. Moves with You. Adapts to Your Ride.
"It is almost alive".
:
: 
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Rocan said:
It's leading axle not leading link, needed to keep trail to manageable limits.
If you've ridden a 'new' BMW at high speed on a bumpy road (110mph+) you'll realise just how much better it is than conventional forks
Double wishbone rear is used to maintain constant chain tension, it's been used on GP bikes in 1970's~80's
(you can probably find CB750 endurance racer pretty easy)
You can tune suspension for any degree of squat/anti squat /neutral handling
The chassis engineering is sound but the design is F'ugly as a F'ugly thing can be.
You think that's uglier than the Jaguar bike?
I'd still say the Jaguar bike's on the bottom, this thing's right up there with the Ferrari bike, tuberculosis or being on fire (as Jeremy Clarkson would put it)
Also the Jaguar bike is real... and that's just scary.
I'd still say the Jaguar bike's on the bottom, this thing's right up there with the Ferrari bike, tuberculosis or being on fire (as Jeremy Clarkson would put it)
Also the Jaguar bike is real... and that's just scary.
Basement rat
Over 1,000 Posts
looking at it more... might be "ok" if it was steam punked up a little.
cookiemonster
I was born with nothing and still have most of it.
U G L Y
im with you on that PJ... i figured out the chain tension thing inbetween my post and reading yours. funny, i had made swingarms exactly like the one shown here in my random sketches, but dismissed it figuring that the benefits would be outweighed by the obvious negatives (heavier weight, for one).
front suspension is better indeed. no matter what, standard telescopic forks just keep getting engineered to make up for their mistakes. BMW's style is much better in that it separates suspension control and steering input entirely. i was confused because at first glance the suspension looked like leading link (fine for smaller scoots for city speeds, but terrible on anything thats doing some speed).
some of the engineering is smart, but alltogether its just ridiculous. who the fuck wants a hemi diesel pushrod motor in a motorcycle?
and, the drawings show a single cylinder... single cylinder at over 1 liter displacement? haha, that will be a smooth ride.
front suspension is better indeed. no matter what, standard telescopic forks just keep getting engineered to make up for their mistakes. BMW's style is much better in that it separates suspension control and steering input entirely. i was confused because at first glance the suspension looked like leading link (fine for smaller scoots for city speeds, but terrible on anything thats doing some speed).
some of the engineering is smart, but alltogether its just ridiculous. who the fuck wants a hemi diesel pushrod motor in a motorcycle?
and, the drawings show a single cylinder... single cylinder at over 1 liter displacement? haha, that will be a smooth ride.
SquadraCorse
Coast to Coast
Can you explain how a 'dual wishbone' rear would maintain constant chain tension? I find it difficult to understand how that could be accomplished unless a rear swing arm was pivoting around the axis of the front sprocket.
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
You start with a parallelogram and adjust length of various links to modify wheel travel.
You can buy a Sportster with Mert Lawwill linkage, he used it on mountainbikes first several years ago (probably after seeing it on racebike in Europe?)
http://www.southerndownhill.com/reviews/bikes/rotec-rl9-test-ride-july-2007.html
You can buy a Sportster with Mert Lawwill linkage, he used it on mountainbikes first several years ago (probably after seeing it on racebike in Europe?)
http://www.southerndownhill.com/reviews/bikes/rotec-rl9-test-ride-july-2007.html
SquadraCorse
Coast to Coast
crazypj said:
That Rotec RL9 has the swing arm pivoting around the bottom bracket shell and axis of the front sprocket.
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
That probably wasn't best example, just the first thing I found
The rear axle is moving through a different arc as its above end of axle on an upright connected to front of frame by second arm
The principle is the same, in the 70's the dual swing arms were designed to provide constant chain tension and/or anti-squat or conventional feel to suspension depending on pivot location and arm lengths
Try this link
http://www.factorypro.com/prod_pages/prodhd,Harley%20Davidson%20Streettracker%20Mert%20Lawwill.htm
Lower link is well below sprocket center and probably parallel to ground? (when loaded with rider)
As the suspension moves up (compresses) the axle moves 'backwards' because of length and angle of top link
With a conventional swing arm the axle would move forwards in an arc after 3 ponits line up (axle center, pivot point, sprocket center)
It's a simple concept, you only have to think of 3 pivots moving on Lawwill or parallelogram system, the front pair are fixed, 6 points total (sprocket is 6th point)
Looking at bike in link again though, it looks to me as though wheel is going to move vertical instead of following arc pivoting around sprocket center?
You could do a lot of math, basic geometry with compasses , pencil and paper, piece of board, thumbtacks, string and cardboard, or, just look at it (that's all I did)
The rear axle is moving through a different arc as its above end of axle on an upright connected to front of frame by second arm
The principle is the same, in the 70's the dual swing arms were designed to provide constant chain tension and/or anti-squat or conventional feel to suspension depending on pivot location and arm lengths
Try this link
http://www.factorypro.com/prod_pages/prodhd,Harley%20Davidson%20Streettracker%20Mert%20Lawwill.htm
Lower link is well below sprocket center and probably parallel to ground? (when loaded with rider)
As the suspension moves up (compresses) the axle moves 'backwards' because of length and angle of top link
With a conventional swing arm the axle would move forwards in an arc after 3 ponits line up (axle center, pivot point, sprocket center)
It's a simple concept, you only have to think of 3 pivots moving on Lawwill or parallelogram system, the front pair are fixed, 6 points total (sprocket is 6th point)
Looking at bike in link again though, it looks to me as though wheel is going to move vertical instead of following arc pivoting around sprocket center?
You could do a lot of math, basic geometry with compasses , pencil and paper, piece of board, thumbtacks, string and cardboard, or, just look at it (that's all I did)
man, you guys wouldnt believe the conversation im having with the makers of this bike.
i sent him an short email flaming the design (claiming weight issues/backwards technology)...
every email from then on was two or more pages in length.
as we guessed, the guy is a huge harley fan (i loved how he stated big catalog/how harley guys can fix their own bikes :) but apparently the interest in this bike comes from the bmw guys (and also he states that some of the best engineers from bmw/mercedes are working on this bike... makes me wonder why they arent working at BMW and Mercedes instead).
he keeps defending the hemi, pushrod, diesel motor... which as he stated is GREAT for the military and farm bikes... but jesus...
i dont give a shit how reliable a 1000cc turbo diesel pushrod hemi single is... that sounds fucking terrible to ride.
he claims 100hp from the liter single...
his first email he shot back to me flamed me saying i was unintelligent, and that i didnt know what i was saying/didnt know how to work on a bike.
i linked him my build thread and he went on to say how much he loves the honda twins :
well. we all know what happened to the turbo factory bikes in the past. standing by.
i sent him an short email flaming the design (claiming weight issues/backwards technology)...
every email from then on was two or more pages in length.
as we guessed, the guy is a huge harley fan (i loved how he stated big catalog/how harley guys can fix their own bikes :
) but apparently the interest in this bike comes from the bmw guys (and also he states that some of the best engineers from bmw/mercedes are working on this bike... makes me wonder why they arent working at BMW and Mercedes instead). he keeps defending the hemi, pushrod, diesel motor... which as he stated is GREAT for the military and farm bikes... but jesus...
i dont give a shit how reliable a 1000cc turbo diesel pushrod hemi single is... that sounds fucking terrible to ride.
he claims 100hp from the liter single...
his first email he shot back to me flamed me saying i was unintelligent, and that i didnt know what i was saying/didnt know how to work on a bike.
i linked him my build thread and he went on to say how much he loves the honda twins :
well. we all know what happened to the turbo factory bikes in the past. standing by.
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
There are already a couple of 980cc Buell Blasts running around, it's using parts from 112 Cu/in V-twin.
With a balancer (?) it should vibrate less than a twin (maybe?)
I still don't really see 100bhp from it though, just cant spin it fast enough, around 7,000rpm the big end disintegrates, more boost, pistons melt down.
It can be done, but engine life won't be too great
With a balancer (?) it should vibrate less than a twin (maybe?)
I still don't really see 100bhp from it though, just cant spin it fast enough, around 7,000rpm the big end disintegrates, more boost, pistons melt down.
It can be done, but engine life won't be too great
Basement rat
Over 1,000 Posts
well, the Harley twin is damn near a single if you think about it. The single could be stronger then the twin because the connecting rod can be larger...
The diesel trucks with 500hp and 1000ft/lps torque tap out at 7000rpm max, so a single cylinder four stroke diesel? I want to see the dyno charts.
The diesel trucks with 500hp and 1000ft/lps torque tap out at 7000rpm max, so a single cylinder four stroke diesel? I want to see the dyno charts.
Swagger
Putting boot to ass since 1967!
Mert Lawwill, it's a pretty well proven rear suspension design lifted directly from Mr. Lawwill.
People resist anything that doesn't fit within their particular view of 'how it should be', motorcyclists are no different...perhaps worse that some even. Swing arm front suspension is a prime example. It's far superior to forks in every conceivable way; less flex on all axis, tunable dive...hell you can tune the front end to SQUAT on acceleration if you so desire. Far better ability to track, less unsprung weight blah blah blah.
You're not likely to see it on any mainstream bike for a long time. Because it's expensive? Only artificially, there's not much going on in that type of front end that isn't going on elsewhere mechanically, swing arm like any bike, one of several hub designs that you see in cars all day long as well as mechanical steering linkages etc. Where's the magical unobtainium?
At least BMW has balls enough to build their front end...even if they geeked the design from someone else.
Now, the bike itself...yup, fugly as hell. Useful as a proof of concept? Totally.
People resist anything that doesn't fit within their particular view of 'how it should be', motorcyclists are no different...perhaps worse that some even. Swing arm front suspension is a prime example. It's far superior to forks in every conceivable way; less flex on all axis, tunable dive...hell you can tune the front end to SQUAT on acceleration if you so desire. Far better ability to track, less unsprung weight blah blah blah.
You're not likely to see it on any mainstream bike for a long time. Because it's expensive? Only artificially, there's not much going on in that type of front end that isn't going on elsewhere mechanically, swing arm like any bike, one of several hub designs that you see in cars all day long as well as mechanical steering linkages etc. Where's the magical unobtainium?
At least BMW has balls enough to build their front end...even if they geeked the design from someone else.
Now, the bike itself...yup, fugly as hell. Useful as a proof of concept? Totally.
