"the Mooch"

MiniatureNinja

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carnivorous chicken said:
If this is a "witch hunt" they seem to keep finding witches.
that is 100% the definition of a witch hunt... remember where the term comes from. thousands of innocent women were executed as witches because the evidence against them was exactly what their accusers said it was.

the Prosecutor who "sent manafort to prison" attended Hillary's election night party.

oh and by the way this has not much to do with Trump and the collusion story, since he's being convicted of crimes that happened 10 years ago. LOL
 

carnivorous chicken

Active Member
MiniatureNinja said:
that is 100% the definition of a witch hunt... remember where the term comes from. thousands of innocent women were executed as witches because the evidence against them was exactly what their accusers said it was.

the Prosecutor who "sent manafort to prison" attended Hillary's election night party.

oh and by the way this has not much to do with Trump and the collusion story, since he's being convicted of crimes that happened 10 years ago. LOL
Not sure where you're getting your information from but...

There were 20 victims of the Salem Witch Trials, not thousands. But a witch trial in the sense that Trump and his ilk are using the term means going after innocent victims. The Salem Witch Trials was a case of mass hysteria, although research has shown that it wasn't simply over "witchcraft," but rather property and land ownership and was complicated. The women were not "witches" hence a "witch hunt" is going after innocent victims.

And not sure where you are getting your information from about Manafort. He has been accused of not disclosing payments from Russia and the Ukraine, as recently as the 2016 campaign, and has just been jailed for attempting to tamper with witnesses in the past 6 months.

If you are implying that this is simply a political stunt -- because the prosecutor favored Hilary Clinton as a candidate -- I think you are misunderstanding the nature and gravity of the crimes that Manafort is accused of. Mueller, a lifelong Republican, has leveled charges at Michael Flynn, Richard Gates, George Papadapoulos, and Alex van der Zwaan. Richard Panedo has pleaded guilty to setting up bank accounts in false names. Van der Zwaan pleaded guilty. Papadopoulos pleaded guilty. Gates pleaded guilty. Flynn pleaded guilty. There are also 13 Russian nationals and 3 Russian businesses that have been indicted for interference in the 2016 election.

Happy to hear more arguments as to why there is no substance to this investigation, or that it is simply politically motivated, but you're going to have to cite some sources.
 

MiniatureNinja

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Re: "the Mooch"

Manafort absolutely deserves to be jailed for his crimes. There is no mistake in that. But the which hunt thing, the conviction of these crimes came about because of a phoney investigation into supposed collusion between the trump campaign and Russian state officials to influence the election. Something evidence has shown over and over that did not happen. There were people who were unknowingly duped by Russian people (not state actors) into gaining information and other useless crap and those people are already suffering the consequences of their poor research and actions. I'm not simply referring to just the Salem which trials... over the course of the history of the church, thousands WERE indeed tortured and killed. It's an example that parallels this "collusion " investigation.... as the only crimes it has brought into light are absolutely unrelated to the crimes under investigation.

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carnivorous chicken

Active Member
Re: "the Mooch"

MiniatureNinja said:
Manafort absolutely deserves to be jailed for his crimes. There is no mistake in that. But the which hunt thing, the conviction of these crimes came about because of a phoney investigation into supposed collusion between the trump campaign and Russian state officials to influence the election. Something evidence has shown over and over that did not happen. There were people who were unknowingly duped by Russian people (not state actors) into gaining information and other useless crap and those people are already suffering the consequences of their poor research and actions. I'm not simply referring to just the Salem which trials... over the course of the history of the church, thousands WERE indeed tortured and killed. It's an example that parallels this "collusion " investigation.... as the only crimes it has brought into light are absolutely unrelated to the crimes under investigation.

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Wait -- Trump's son Donald, Jr., along with Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner, have admitted to meeting with Russians who promised dirt on Hillary Clinton during the campaign.

Flynn lied to FBI investigators about his contacts with Russia.

Gates and Manafort's charges have to do with secret payments and lobbying -- on behalf of Russia and Ukraine.

Papadopoulos lied about his connections to Russian officials and attempts to set up meeting with Trump campaign members.

Van der Zwaan and Gates are accused of secret lobbying on behalf of pro-Russian Ukrainian interests.

Pinedo sold bank accounts under fake names to Russians involved in elections meddling.

These aren't made up "fake news" items -- I am looking at a Fox News page with this information on it. If anyone has their nose up Trump's butt, it's Fox News, and although they certainly lie and distort the truth -- and their talking heads such as Hannity are spiraling downward into crazy conspiracy theories that make no sense -- even Fox has to admit that these charges are real, and related to the campaign.

Again, I'd like to see some sources if you have any that back up your assertions. If this is some kind of "liberal" or "deep state" conspiracy against Trump, being led by a Republican investigator, how can it possibly be continuing? Everyone is in on it? The rule of law is over? This requires some interesting mental gymnastics...
 

MiniatureNinja

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Re: "the Mooch"

Ok, starting at the top with Jr. He met with Natalia Veselnitskaya (a Russian lawyer, who's access into the United states was fast tracked by Obama officials who she had closer ties with than with Putin. ) the meeting was set up by Goldstone and Natalia was one of many other Russians in the meeting including artists, singers, beauty pageant members (of a pageant run by DJT) obviously if you are running a campaign of dirt on an opponent you're going to get it from some source... does it really matter what that source is if it's the truth?
Because the "Russian Trump Dossiers" were just the same thing, they were contracted hit pieces manufactured by fusion GPS under the employ of the Clinton campaign in an effort to trash her opposition.

Flynn took a plea deal... he plead guilty to lying to save his family because he was threatened by the FBI and their weaponized politics. His contact with Russians was not illegal, though it could have ended up that way. He as fired by Trump when found out and referred to Justice Department by same for prosecution.

Lobbying for foreign governments is something probably half of Washington is guilty of.... throw them all in jail.

I couldn't tell you about hannity. Or fox I don't watch those shows, I do my own reading and research, not the spoonfed stuff many channels try to serve up.

I am happy to provide sources... I generally stay out of these types of conversations because most people are not willing to open their minds up to evidence when it contradicts their core beliefs. I did not vote for Trump, I do support some of his ideas and not others. to be fair... I am on mobile so I will have to get home to find these sources again.

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irk miller

You've been mostly-dead all day.
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Re: "the Mooch"

MiniatureNinja said:
Lobbying for foreign governments is something probably half of Washington is guilty of.... throw them all in jail.
Lobbying is not, nor should be, illegal. The issues at hand is non-compliance with the Foreign Agents Registration Act. It's the secrecy.
 

sav0r

Member
Re: "the Mooch"

MiniatureNinja said:
Ok, starting at the top with Jr. He met with Natalia Veselnitskaya (a Russian lawyer, who's access into the United states was fast tracked by Obama officials who she had closer ties with than with Putin. ) the meeting was set up by Goldstone and Natalia was one of many other Russians in the meeting including artists, singers, beauty pageant members (of a pageant run by DJT) obviously if you are running a campaign of dirt on an opponent you're going to get it from some source... does it really matter what that source is if it's the truth?
Because the "Russian Trump Dossiers" were just the same thing, they were contracted hit pieces manufactured by fusion GPS under the employ of the Clinton campaign in an effort to trash her opposition.

Flynn took a plea deal... he plead guilty to lying to save his family because he was threatened by the FBI and their weaponized politics. His contact with Russians was not illegal, though it could have ended up that way. He as fired by Trump when found out and referred to Justice Department by same for prosecution.

Lobbying for foreign governments is something probably half of Washington is guilty of.... throw them all in jail.

I couldn't tell you about hannity. Or fox I don't watch those shows, I do my own reading and research, not the spoonfed stuff many channels try to serve up.

I am happy to provide sources... I generally stay out of these types of conversations because most people are not willing to open their minds up to evidence when it contradicts their core beliefs. I did not vote for Trump, I do support some of his ideas and not others. to be fair... I am on mobile so I will have to get home to find these sources again.

Sent from my SM-G955U using DO THE TON mobile app
Tit for tat. Emails, blow jobs, pizza gate, Benghazi, the list goes on. The problem with the investigation is that’s it’s still active. We might get to the end and it might be nothing. If that’s the case then Donnie will be justified. Good for him. If something is found, then the swamp has been drained. Donnie and his supporters can fly the “mission accomplished” flag. The difference between this investigation and other mud slinging is that one has several people who are guilty of one thing or another. The others were bs. Just like illegal immigrants people broke the law, Jeff “law and order” Sessions and all the other people who hate law breakers (not just brown ones) should have more to cheer about. That’s like a quadruple win. Go Mueller!
 

sav0r

Member
In Pittsburgh there’s been quite a lot of backlash over this. The paper is rebranding as a conservative news piece. They’ve featured a number of pretty bad editorials recently, all of which pushed out from a sister paper. It probably won’t hurt them in the burbs, but in the city I’m sure they’ll darn near screech to a halt sales wise. The PG’s only real competition (Tribune Review) went online only a few years back. I wouldn’t be surprised if the City Paper was the only PGH specific physical copy you could get in a year or two.
 

teazer

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Seems that Trump is interested in real estate deals in North Korea after he retires/resigns/gets out of jail.

As for the investigation into Russian interference, that is well understood to have happened. The question that Muller (a lifelong republican) has been asked to address is whether the Trump campaign knowingly colluded with Russians. It's clear that Trump had financial interests with many Russians and it certainly looks possible that Trump and his team knowingly interacted with Russians and lied about those interactions and all teh Russian cash going to Trump properties.

Was there collusion with a foreign government or did Trump and his team not understand how inappropriate their actions were, may never be clear. But there is no witch hunt. It's a search for facts and if there are enough to suggest collusion, then so be it and if not that's fine too. But as long as Trump continues to lie about his involvement and what reports state as facts, he is not doing himself any good. It certainly appears as if Trump is a bully and a cheap crook, but time will tell if enough facts emerge to show if he is also a traitor as has been suggested. No point in any of us getting wound up about an ongoing investigation. It will be over soon enough.

I have a suspicion though that if Muller finds insufficient evidence to impeach Trump, then Trump supporters will feel vindicated and anti Trumpers will feel enraged that the truth was hidden, so I'm not sure any result will be well received by many Americans. The other funny thing about human behavior is that as a group we seem to ignore facts until they can no longer be ignored and then we get all bent out of shape that no one told us there was a problem. If this turns out badly for Trump, who will the average American blame? Congress for doing nothing? The media for being too soft on him? Comey or Sessions for not doing more? I have a feeling that whatever the final report says, America will be more divided than ever. That is truly sad.
 

MiniatureNinja

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Re: "the Mooch"

Lol I love it


Oh and time magazine.. wonder if the next issue will be the truth? Father of that child feature on the front was never even separated from her mother, they went to the boarder even though he knew it was a bad idea.

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carnivorous chicken

Active Member
Re: "the Mooch"

MiniatureNinja said:
Lol I love it


Oh and time magazine.. wonder if the next issue will be the truth? Father of that child feature on the front was never even separated from her mother, they went to the boarder even though he knew it was a bad idea.

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And the photo of Trump wasn't him looking at a small child originally, most likely. That's not the point.
 

irk miller

You've been mostly-dead all day.
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I'm still buying into Chomsky's theory that Trump and all of his -isms are just a distraction from the Republican's agenda of dismantling the government and every program that benefits the people.
 

sav0r

Member
irk miller said:
I'm still buying into Chomsky's theory that Trump and all of his -isms are just a distraction from the Republican's agenda of dismantling the government and every program that benefits the people.
The problem with that theory is that the Republicans control all the branches and are flailing around and achieving very little. I like when Trump blames Democrats, it shows he doesn't understand the basic mathematic principle of the majority.
 
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