axeugene27
Over 1,000 Posts
saw a pretty put together one at mid ohio. I needed an education for what it was as my exclamation was pretty much the headline of this thread. I find it interesting at least to look at.
What the fuck is this? Craigslist bike
- Thread starter OneArmWillie
- Start date
I loved the original RE5 with the flip up instrument cover. It was ridiculous and outrageous and not all that good of a motorcycle, but for audacity, it can't be beat. It's in the same league as CBX and turbo bikes of the era. Thank goodness that manufacturers had the cojones to try something different back then.
Rotary Cycle , which was sold a short while back, specialized in those bikes and had collected literally dozens of them as projects or to break for parts. They moved location, but some parts are still available. Their rarity stems from lack of sales rather than any inherent value, but I like them.
Rotary Cycle , which was sold a short while back, specialized in those bikes and had collected literally dozens of them as projects or to break for parts. They moved location, but some parts are still available. Their rarity stems from lack of sales rather than any inherent value, but I like them.
spotty
Vmax...why,yes i think i will
" It's in the same league as CBX and turbo bikes of the era. "
the problem with the turbos as well as the RE5 was that they involved tech features way beyond the capabilities of most people of the day (it was a lot more common to work on your own bike back then) with no appreciable advantages,
for instance Honda decided to turbo the bloody CX500 for gods sake, so they bolt an expensive failworthy unfixable lump onto a maggot of a bike (apologies to owners but get a real bike, a Vmax springs to mind, LOL) and get something with less performance than their 1100s of the time,
Suzuki did the same to a GS650 and got something slower than a GSX1100 and sold it for the same price. Kawasaki did the best of the lot with the GPZ750 turbo but again, why not use the already existing 1100 and turbo that ?
frame and brake tech of the time were limiting factors too, i rode a suzuki turbo one day and taking a bend on the freeway, the turbo kicked in, the bike stood straight up and shot straight up an off ramp...........
the problem with the turbos as well as the RE5 was that they involved tech features way beyond the capabilities of most people of the day (it was a lot more common to work on your own bike back then) with no appreciable advantages,
for instance Honda decided to turbo the bloody CX500 for gods sake, so they bolt an expensive failworthy unfixable lump onto a maggot of a bike (apologies to owners but get a real bike, a Vmax springs to mind, LOL) and get something with less performance than their 1100s of the time,
Suzuki did the same to a GS650 and got something slower than a GSX1100 and sold it for the same price. Kawasaki did the best of the lot with the GPZ750 turbo but again, why not use the already existing 1100 and turbo that ?
frame and brake tech of the time were limiting factors too, i rode a suzuki turbo one day and taking a bend on the freeway, the turbo kicked in, the bike stood straight up and shot straight up an off ramp...........
surffly
Over 1,000 Posts
The argument that its to hard to work on XXX is weak and old
When the first automatic transmissions came out everyone bitched and was afraid. Hell how many people know old guys that hate power windows because its "just something to break"
Fact is that alot of the bike we play with now were cutting edge when they were new.
The industry moves forward all the time and there will be people that understand things and embrace them and there will be others that fear it and complain. It has been going on since people dropped the horse and got a car, and it will continue for ever.
When the first automatic transmissions came out everyone bitched and was afraid. Hell how many people know old guys that hate power windows because its "just something to break"
Fact is that alot of the bike we play with now were cutting edge when they were new.
The industry moves forward all the time and there will be people that understand things and embrace them and there will be others that fear it and complain. It has been going on since people dropped the horse and got a car, and it will continue for ever.
VonYinzer
Over 10,000 Posts
That's just silly. In the case of the re5, there's multiple cooling systems, two ignition systems, a motor based on tech that at the time a small percentage of the population had ever laid eyes upon, and so on. In short, for the average rider and home mechanic it was a ridiculously overly complicated machine. Could someone learn to keep it running right? Sure. But why would you when you could buy a cheaper, faster, better performing and less complicated bike?
The fact is that it and bikes like it just weren't worth the time and effort needed to keep them road worthy and reliable. Not to mention the cost of doing so.
Look at your CBX. Other than the "wow it's a CBX" factor, what about that bike actually makes it a better machine than a simpler, yet similarly performing motorcycle of the day?
The fact is that it and bikes like it just weren't worth the time and effort needed to keep them road worthy and reliable. Not to mention the cost of doing so.
Look at your CBX. Other than the "wow it's a CBX" factor, what about that bike actually makes it a better machine than a simpler, yet similarly performing motorcycle of the day?
surffly
Over 1,000 Posts
Its the people that see the new tech and try and make it work for them that drive things forward
Better? Well thats a subjective term. Where there simpler bikes that you could do all the same things that a CBX could do? Sure. But maybe simple is not the highest thing on everyones list. It was one of the fastest (some claimed the fastest) bikes of the time. Is it a bitch to work on? Yup. Is it expensive because there is six of everything? You bet. But is the smooth power worth the work vs riding a twin? I think so. Some might not, thats why other manufactures built twins.
The CB750 had twice as much of everything when it first came out. Now its an industry standard.
The RE5 and all rotary engines have failed to come into the main stream for a few reasons. Out right performance and ease of back yard techs working on it being low on the list.
By this argument are you apposed to dual clutch transmissions? Computer controlled ignitions? Traction control? ABS?
Most people claim that a all modern bikes are beyond what the average home tech can trouble shoot. Is this really true? I dont think it is.
Want to claim that it costs a fair bit of money in tools to work on modern stuff because of the computes or special tools? OK I guess its not something that a 62pc kit from craftsman can deal with, but is that a bad thing?
Flop or not its the bikes that push the boundaries that move things forward.
There is an ass for every seat. There will always be a market for things that are simple, reliable and cheap. But on the other side of the coin there will be people willing to forgo some of those things to have a superlative in one or more ways
Better? Well thats a subjective term. Where there simpler bikes that you could do all the same things that a CBX could do? Sure. But maybe simple is not the highest thing on everyones list. It was one of the fastest (some claimed the fastest) bikes of the time. Is it a bitch to work on? Yup. Is it expensive because there is six of everything? You bet. But is the smooth power worth the work vs riding a twin? I think so. Some might not, thats why other manufactures built twins.
The CB750 had twice as much of everything when it first came out. Now its an industry standard.
The RE5 and all rotary engines have failed to come into the main stream for a few reasons. Out right performance and ease of back yard techs working on it being low on the list.
By this argument are you apposed to dual clutch transmissions? Computer controlled ignitions? Traction control? ABS?
Most people claim that a all modern bikes are beyond what the average home tech can trouble shoot. Is this really true? I dont think it is.
Want to claim that it costs a fair bit of money in tools to work on modern stuff because of the computes or special tools? OK I guess its not something that a 62pc kit from craftsman can deal with, but is that a bad thing?
Flop or not its the bikes that push the boundaries that move things forward.
There is an ass for every seat. There will always be a market for things that are simple, reliable and cheap. But on the other side of the coin there will be people willing to forgo some of those things to have a superlative in one or more ways
I knew someone that had one, an older guy at that time (now deceased) he was an engineer and used to build everything for his bikes, including rings etc.
He'd crashed his, someone pulled out in front of him.
He vowed he wouldn't sell it to anyone that had never raced, said it was too dangerous (this is back in the early 80's), no engine braking.
I always liked that bike! Maybe I'll get one sometime....
He'd crashed his, someone pulled out in front of him.
He vowed he wouldn't sell it to anyone that had never raced, said it was too dangerous (this is back in the early 80's), no engine braking.
I always liked that bike! Maybe I'll get one sometime....
VonYinzer
Over 10,000 Posts
I don't think that ANY bike is beyond the scope of most peoples abilities if they would choose to maintain them themselves. I also don't have anything against modern, more complicated machines. As you correctly stated, it's these machines that push the tech forward.
That said, comparing the the cb750 of 1969 to the re5 is a bit off center. There really wasn't anything about the cb750 that was groundbreaking on it own. What was groundbreaking was having all of these things in one, reliable and well performing machine that Joe Public could afford AND maintain. The re5 was not that.
The CBX on the other had was and still is an impressive machine. That doesn't make it a better machine and obviously doesn't make it worse. The claim that it was the fastest bike of its time is moot though. The fastest bike in the world means nothing to the average rider on the street. It's just another "wow, look at this" factor. Unnecessary like today's 200mph street bikes. Neat? Yup. Reasonable or needed. Hell no.
Again, the re5 is interesting as its an oddity. Just like the CBX. Rare, different and possibly ahead of its time doesn't make it better or worth a damn.
The 70s were an interesting time in motorcycle tech. The major manufacturers were skipping the usual track first street later steps in some cases in an attempt to build sales. Car companies were doing the same thing. The 70s and 80s were times of grandiose excess. Did it help to usher in the era of amazing bikes we have now? Fucking a. And that kicks ass. Doesn't mean that any of those bikes were particularly worthwhile in real world conditions.
That said, comparing the the cb750 of 1969 to the re5 is a bit off center. There really wasn't anything about the cb750 that was groundbreaking on it own. What was groundbreaking was having all of these things in one, reliable and well performing machine that Joe Public could afford AND maintain. The re5 was not that.
The CBX on the other had was and still is an impressive machine. That doesn't make it a better machine and obviously doesn't make it worse. The claim that it was the fastest bike of its time is moot though. The fastest bike in the world means nothing to the average rider on the street. It's just another "wow, look at this" factor. Unnecessary like today's 200mph street bikes. Neat? Yup. Reasonable or needed. Hell no.
Again, the re5 is interesting as its an oddity. Just like the CBX. Rare, different and possibly ahead of its time doesn't make it better or worth a damn.
The 70s were an interesting time in motorcycle tech. The major manufacturers were skipping the usual track first street later steps in some cases in an attempt to build sales. Car companies were doing the same thing. The 70s and 80s were times of grandiose excess. Did it help to usher in the era of amazing bikes we have now? Fucking a. And that kicks ass. Doesn't mean that any of those bikes were particularly worthwhile in real world conditions.
Point is that all the above odd ball motorcycles were pushing the boundaries in some cases to prove it could be done and in other cases to push the envelope. That's exactly the thinking that makes bikes better. Of course they are not all successful even from an engineering perspective, and in many cases not from a market or sales perspective, but thank goodness they didn't just stop there and asy "that's as much as any person could want. We are done".
As for people doing their own maintenance on modern bikes with EFI and complex electronics, they are not designed to be maintained by owners any more. It's either throw parts at it or buy thousands of $$ of diagnostic gear.
As for people doing their own maintenance on modern bikes with EFI and complex electronics, they are not designed to be maintained by owners any more. It's either throw parts at it or buy thousands of $$ of diagnostic gear.
spotty
Vmax...why,yes i think i will
"Was it a turbo powered bike, or a rocket powered bike? If turbo, easing off the throttle a little bit would have taken care of that."
we're talking about something that happened totally unexpectedly at speeds already well in excess of the limit and within a couple of seconds on what used to be a fairly tight bend.....could well have had something to do with my somewhat marginal riding abilities which haven't really improved but it scared the shit out of me.
if that exit ramp hadn't been there it would have been straight into the crash barrier, and i've done that too and it really hurts
we're talking about something that happened totally unexpectedly at speeds already well in excess of the limit and within a couple of seconds on what used to be a fairly tight bend.....could well have had something to do with my somewhat marginal riding abilities which haven't really improved but it scared the shit out of me.
if that exit ramp hadn't been there it would have been straight into the crash barrier, and i've done that too and it really hurts
surffly
Over 1,000 Posts
Don't get me wrong, the RE5 is not on the same level as the CB750, but I don't think it was ever meant to be.
The CB750 became exactly what Honda wanted it to be. The package as a whole was accepted and thrived. I don't think the goal of the RE5 was the same.
And things have changed a ton. Now there is way less adjusting and way more replaceing of components.
The think I love are the options. I feel that there were more options in the past. What I mean is if you wanted a 6cyl rocket, or a two stroke monster or something that looked like a guzi with downs and a turbo, air cooled, liquid cooled, freaking rotary, you could buy almost anything your heart wanted. Now not so much. Yes you can buy bikes tailored to a task. And yes the performance and reliability are better. But some how the options are less. Other then styling what's the difference in most segments?
The CB750 became exactly what Honda wanted it to be. The package as a whole was accepted and thrived. I don't think the goal of the RE5 was the same.
And things have changed a ton. Now there is way less adjusting and way more replaceing of components.
The think I love are the options. I feel that there were more options in the past. What I mean is if you wanted a 6cyl rocket, or a two stroke monster or something that looked like a guzi with downs and a turbo, air cooled, liquid cooled, freaking rotary, you could buy almost anything your heart wanted. Now not so much. Yes you can buy bikes tailored to a task. And yes the performance and reliability are better. But some how the options are less. Other then styling what's the difference in most segments?
So the problem was really between the seat and the bars and not the induction system.spotty said:
teazer said:
I agree. I think, in these modern times, that most manufacturers are hesitant to spend the money on all the things that go into making a "hey look what I can do" type of bike. The risk vs reward is too great, so they stick with what's working for them currently. Of course it also only the failures that stick out in memory too. If turbo and rotary bikes had caught on, do you think this discussion would be happening?surffly said:
