What would you do with a blank slate 1971 Honda 600?
- Thread starter Swagger
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Swagger
Putting boot to ass since 1967!
Unless we're talking about the 1125 motor I'd probably pass and I have the 1100xx crated up in storage so being that it's already a honda motor and I have it........
For rollers, if I'm gonna go this far with it I'll run 15x7 with 205/50s. Mainly because I've got a set of Motegi Traklites that came off my autocross car. Air weighs more than these wheels to.
I'd probably try to make some 70's style bubble flairs or split the sheet metal and do some kind of IMSA widebody conversion. Dunno but it's a giggle to think about. I've got a pair of Jazz TurboPro roadrace seats that are hellishly tough to get in and out of for daily use but for a toy they'd rock....they are polymer, hollow spin molded with a perimeter tube frame, each one weigh something like 7 pounds. I have a buddy at drive-line services that is all but volunteering to make the axles to run from whatever pumpkins I use to whatever hubs....that's kinda cool.
Keep it coming buys! I had someone suggest that I build it into an offroad buggy. That'd be fun but I haven't done anything offroad since I sold Truckzilla.
For rollers, if I'm gonna go this far with it I'll run 15x7 with 205/50s. Mainly because I've got a set of Motegi Traklites that came off my autocross car. Air weighs more than these wheels to.
I'd probably try to make some 70's style bubble flairs or split the sheet metal and do some kind of IMSA widebody conversion. Dunno but it's a giggle to think about. I've got a pair of Jazz TurboPro roadrace seats that are hellishly tough to get in and out of for daily use but for a toy they'd rock....they are polymer, hollow spin molded with a perimeter tube frame, each one weigh something like 7 pounds. I have a buddy at drive-line services that is all but volunteering to make the axles to run from whatever pumpkins I use to whatever hubs....that's kinda cool.
Keep it coming buys! I had someone suggest that I build it into an offroad buggy. That'd be fun but I haven't done anything offroad since I sold Truckzilla.
charlesskelter
Been Around the Block
An engine in storage is an engine you have. I definately wouldn't screw up the weight ratio with a car motor.
Will 15's fit in the wheel wells? It could be the first donk rolling on 15's. haha Offroading it you'd have to reinforce the heck out of it to be safe, negating the fun you could have with the high hp motor. I'd go the street legal go-kart route. But that's just me.
Will 15's fit in the wheel wells? It could be the first donk rolling on 15's. haha Offroading it you'd have to reinforce the heck out of it to be safe, negating the fun you could have with the high hp motor. I'd go the street legal go-kart route. But that's just me.
charlesskelter
Been Around the Block
Stockers are 13" aren't they? 14"s have a few good quality reasonably priced low profile sticky tires, I figured they'd give a nice full look, but it's been a while since I've seen one up close.
VonYinzer
Over 10,000 Posts
Why dont you find a good Harley servicar rearend, mount the motor dead center in the car (you would need to fab a tube chassis), and run chain drive? Ive seen servicar setups run 200+ hp with some work. You could set up an a-arm suspension with resevoir monoshocks on each corner from a cbr1000 (keeping with the car/bike hybrid). Mount a billet VW sandrail steering box in the center of the frontend and throw one single racing seat in the center of the car right in front of the motor. (If placed properly, your weight + the seat should balance out the motors weight.) You can get a sand rail pedal setup that would work and be super strong im sure. Fab up a hydraulic cluth actuator, and run a shifter linkage int a lenco style inline shifter. Seeing as your setting everything into a tube chassis, you could "tub out" all four wheel wells and run a nice 14" race wheel. Set it up so it uses VW hubs up front and there are a ton of inexpensive but high quality disk brake setups out there. Make sure the chassis has an integrated roll cage to support the body shell, and you would have a crazy fast track car. Wire up the lights and build a sheetmetal box arount the motor and it would be streetlegal too!
Swagger
Putting boot to ass since 1967!
Mysta: That's fun, you have lots of time one your hands! I actually kinda like the roadster treatment, but I'd want some kind of top....I'm in Portland Oregon....we get rain no and again.
VonYinzer: It's small enough and I'm large enough that that would be a fun way to go, but I think I want to keep two seats. The plan would indeed be to keep it marginally street legal.
I'm not ruling out RWD only, but if I'm going to fabricate I might as well FABRICATE. It's not that much of a stretch to go from 2wd to AWD when you're basically free to lay it out any way ya want, dig? If I do only 2wd I will more than likely move the engine behind the seats and chain it to a rear end though I'll probably try to use this diff I have. The Subi pumpkins would be used if I was gonna go AWD. Dunno but it's fun to has this stuff out.....
VonYinzer: It's small enough and I'm large enough that that would be a fun way to go, but I think I want to keep two seats. The plan would indeed be to keep it marginally street legal.
I'm not ruling out RWD only, but if I'm going to fabricate I might as well FABRICATE. It's not that much of a stretch to go from 2wd to AWD when you're basically free to lay it out any way ya want, dig? If I do only 2wd I will more than likely move the engine behind the seats and chain it to a rear end though I'll probably try to use this diff I have. The Subi pumpkins would be used if I was gonna go AWD. Dunno but it's fun to has this stuff out.....
sebatron
Coast to Coast
-1 for the subaru drivetrain idea.
can you imagine how much torque you'll rob yourself of, using a car AWD transmission? it'd suck ass. you'd want a turbo just to have any kind of fun.
if you want to use 1 engine, mount it in your boot to a chaindrive diff.
if you want AWD, just stick an identical setup in the front, too... then, assuming the motors are about the same, all you'd need is a custom clutch/shifter/throttle setup.
it's been done before, just not exactly that way (2 motor, i mean)
for info...
hayabusa rwd mini: http://www.brittanicar.com/EngineSwaps/HayabusaengineconversionintoaclassicMini/tabid/76/Default.aspx
twin engine AWD mini ("twini mini"): http://www.mibv.com/Mini/Misc/TwiniMini/index.htm
and like i mentioned earlier, add a starter motor to one (probably the rear) for your reverse.
can you imagine how much torque you'll rob yourself of, using a car AWD transmission? it'd suck ass. you'd want a turbo just to have any kind of fun.
if you want to use 1 engine, mount it in your boot to a chaindrive diff.
if you want AWD, just stick an identical setup in the front, too... then, assuming the motors are about the same, all you'd need is a custom clutch/shifter/throttle setup.
it's been done before, just not exactly that way (2 motor, i mean)
for info...
hayabusa rwd mini: http://www.brittanicar.com/EngineSwaps/HayabusaengineconversionintoaclassicMini/tabid/76/Default.aspx
twin engine AWD mini ("twini mini"): http://www.mibv.com/Mini/Misc/TwiniMini/index.htm
and like i mentioned earlier, add a starter motor to one (probably the rear) for your reverse.
Swagger
Putting boot to ass since 1967!
I said nothing about transmissions did I? One way or another I'm going to have to get the rotational force from the engine's output to the tires contact patch where it meets the pavement. The most effective way to go about that is via a driven differential, some form of axle and hub connected thereto etc. The subaru differentials I mentioned are well proven and fairly light weight. I'm sure there are lighter units out there but I dunno what they are and I've used Subi bits before in projects. If you have a recommendation of a piece you've used before please lemme know. As for getting power to the pumpkins front and rear, a shaft would be used that would more than likely be driven by a chain from the engine. My plan would be to machine the ends of the drive shaft such that they mount to diff inputs solidly, thus eliminating the need for any kind of rotational alignment joint (Burfield, universal, Constant velocity etc) adn that subsequent parasitic frictional loss.
Yes there would be more weight with the AWD format, but even so I imagine that this thing won't tip the scales at much more than 1000 pounds, perhaps 1100. I'm basically considering a tin can strapped to a rocket. There are many cars considred "sporty" that weigh more than twice that and have the same or less horsepower, and since I have a fair degree of control over gearing the 75ftlb of torque can be used by gearing up. I can't see doing more than 100 in this tiny thing anyway and bike motors like to spin so why not.
As I said, at this point it's just mental masturbation and frankly *IF* I do it, I'd want to do something that other people haven't...hence a different approach to the driveline.
Yes there would be more weight with the AWD format, but even so I imagine that this thing won't tip the scales at much more than 1000 pounds, perhaps 1100. I'm basically considering a tin can strapped to a rocket. There are many cars considred "sporty" that weigh more than twice that and have the same or less horsepower, and since I have a fair degree of control over gearing the 75ftlb of torque can be used by gearing up. I can't see doing more than 100 in this tiny thing anyway and bike motors like to spin so why not.
As I said, at this point it's just mental masturbation and frankly *IF* I do it, I'd want to do something that other people haven't...hence a different approach to the driveline.
sebatron
Coast to Coast
i'll leave a parting gift:
http://www.torsen.com/fsae/fsaefaqframes.htm
relatively inexpensive chain drive differential designed precisely to be used with a motorcycle engine (though it's usually a 600) in a lightweight race frame. extra goodies like the option to use torque bias ratios, uses standard audi quattro driveshafts, it's easy enough to mount a brake setup to it (which i'm a huge fan of) and it weighs 8 goddamn pounds
and yes, i've used one, no it didn't break, yes i'd recommend them for any such application.
for a thorough whitepaper showing far more detail than the torsen site, check here:
http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/36702/77550024.pdf?sequence=1
i thought getting a honda 600 and mounting an XX engine to it would be plenty different already
i actually bought my '73 mini with just such a project in mind (though i was looking at a kaw zx12r motor as i'm quite fond of them), i just lost interest because there was some serious swiss cheese panel action in the floor, quarters, seams, etc.
http://www.torsen.com/fsae/fsaefaqframes.htm
relatively inexpensive chain drive differential designed precisely to be used with a motorcycle engine (though it's usually a 600) in a lightweight race frame. extra goodies like the option to use torque bias ratios, uses standard audi quattro driveshafts, it's easy enough to mount a brake setup to it (which i'm a huge fan of) and it weighs 8 goddamn pounds
and yes, i've used one, no it didn't break, yes i'd recommend them for any such application.
for a thorough whitepaper showing far more detail than the torsen site, check here:
http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/36702/77550024.pdf?sequence=1
i thought getting a honda 600 and mounting an XX engine to it would be plenty different already
i actually bought my '73 mini with just such a project in mind (though i was looking at a kaw zx12r motor as i'm quite fond of them), i just lost interest because there was some serious swiss cheese panel action in the floor, quarters, seams, etc.
Swagger
Putting boot to ass since 1967!
Sebatron: I'm gonna bet you only skimmed the post, that's cool but you can keep your parting gift. I've got one already (Torsen). Bike powered micros have been done, if I'm going to take on yet anther project, I might as well do something that goes a little beyond the rest don't you think. As for reverse, an electric motor added to the drive trane is a pretty workable idea but I think perhaps I'll look into other less kludged ideas...
Swagger:
Having built a bike engine car (BEC), there are a couple things to consider. First, the clutches on the bike motor are--as you know--tiny, and the overall weight of the car has to be kept to a minimum...like not over 1400lbs. Even with uprated springs and clutch plates, weight is the absolute enemy. For the record, I love stock Honda clutch pates, the EBC plates suck.
OK, you also have to consider reverse...or not. I had the get out an push reverse system and it worked fine.
The blackbird motor, like all honda motors, is indeed bulletproof. But from memory, you'll have to dry-sump that engine. Don't hold me to that statement. But if you have to dry sump, you're looking at $1k plus a plumbing nightmare.
To mate the bike engine to the wheels, there are a number of possibilities. Mid engine would be best using a chain drive to your sealed torsen. You could also use a rear differential out of a car and...you know, there are a million things I can tell you about this subject. Rather than type it all, PM me your phone number and I'll talk you through it.
And yes, no matter what, the bike engine is the way to go. BECs are insane. Mine did 0-60 under 4 seconds.
--Chris
Having built a bike engine car (BEC), there are a couple things to consider. First, the clutches on the bike motor are--as you know--tiny, and the overall weight of the car has to be kept to a minimum...like not over 1400lbs. Even with uprated springs and clutch plates, weight is the absolute enemy. For the record, I love stock Honda clutch pates, the EBC plates suck.
OK, you also have to consider reverse...or not. I had the get out an push reverse system and it worked fine.
The blackbird motor, like all honda motors, is indeed bulletproof. But from memory, you'll have to dry-sump that engine. Don't hold me to that statement. But if you have to dry sump, you're looking at $1k plus a plumbing nightmare.
To mate the bike engine to the wheels, there are a number of possibilities. Mid engine would be best using a chain drive to your sealed torsen. You could also use a rear differential out of a car and...you know, there are a million things I can tell you about this subject. Rather than type it all, PM me your phone number and I'll talk you through it.
And yes, no matter what, the bike engine is the way to go. BECs are insane. Mine did 0-60 under 4 seconds.
--Chris
Swagger
Putting boot to ass since 1967!
I'll drop you a line about it at some point but not right away. I will be actually seeing the car this weekend as I stuff it *somewhere* in my horrifically over filled storage yard.
I did dig up some loose specs in the 'toobs....
Wheelbase: 78 inches
Length: 122"
Width: 51"
Track: 44"
Weight OEM: 1312lb
it's teeny tiny..
I did dig up some loose specs in the 'toobs....
Wheelbase: 78 inches
Length: 122"
Width: 51"
Track: 44"
Weight OEM: 1312lb
it's teeny tiny..
Swagger
Putting boot to ass since 1967!
Well....that's a project.....for someday!
So it's there and did actually roll on it's own. There's no floor. I mean it's gone.....rusted away, apparently it sat with a couple inches of water on the floor for quite a while, old carpet held it nice and cozy against the metalwork....you get the idea.
I'd have cut it away anyway due to rebuilding to suit but...damn....
more someday...
So it's there and did actually roll on it's own. There's no floor. I mean it's gone.....rusted away, apparently it sat with a couple inches of water on the floor for quite a while, old carpet held it nice and cozy against the metalwork....you get the idea.
I'd have cut it away anyway due to rebuilding to suit but...damn....
more someday...
