Pulverized magnesium in the tank?
- Thread starter Texasstar
- Start date
mydlyfkryzis
当有疑问时踢你的敌人在生殖器上，你可以道歉后
Sounds a little fishy. Powdered anything would just clog things up....
Sounds like intimidation orpickeled Red Herring...Have people look for the magnesium, rather than an otherwise more obvious displacement or valve size adjustment, or something on that order.
Sounds like intimidation or
mydlyfkryzis
当有疑问时踢你的敌人在生殖器上，你可以道歉后
If I was guessing, it didn't burn, it cooled the charge. I doubt the mass could be enough to have a positive effect. But magnesium would displace fuel, so it would be leaner, and pulverized or powdered Mg would just clog fuel passages.
If it did burn, it would melt aluminum. The motor would essentially become a thermite bomb...
If it did burn, it would melt aluminum. The motor would essentially become a thermite bomb...
mydlyfkryzis
当有疑问时踢你的敌人在生殖器上，你可以道歉后
Tetraethyl lead is a compound. Pulverized magnesium an element and a powder. Lead powder would clog passages, jam up in ring gaps, etc too.
Think about Milk of magnesia, versus chewing on a mag wheel of your car....compounds are different...
Think about Milk of magnesia, versus chewing on a mag wheel of your car....compounds are different...
SONICJK
Reminds me of...me No, I'm sure of it. I hate him
This made me chuckle haha.mydlyfkryzis said:
However, magnesium powder could possibly In solution act as a grignard reagent effectively converting carbonyls or haloalkanes into longer carbon chain molecules, producing octane or similar compounds that could increase a fuels resistance to combustion just like octane.
If used in small quantities the mg is fairly reactive and the majority of it would dissolve. Mg powder is a very common reagent and readily dissolve I'm the right compounds. As far as gasoline I'm not positive, but my educated guess says it will dissolve in small quantities.
mydlyfkryzis
当有疑问时踢你的敌人在生殖器上，你可以道歉后
I don't disagree with your analysis at all. But old racers used to throw crazy ideas out to throw the hounds off the trail of the real changes they made.
Blending magnesium into the fuel may be a possibility, but tossing some pulverized magnesium in a gas can to increase octane would not be a consistent way to make more HP.
The other thing is, higher octane, by itself, does not increase the output of an engine. Higher octane allows you to increase timing advance, increase compression ration, etc.....If the magnesium was added in a scientific manner, they still would of had to "cheat" to take advantage of the higher octane.
Smokey Yunick (Stock Car racer) used to get around rules, like gas tank limitations. Turns out, if you use large diameter fuel lines, for example, parts of the roll cage, for fuel line, you can get an extra gallon or 2 in the car. That may be enough to finish a race without a stop.
This sounds like shenanigans, IMHO.
Blending magnesium into the fuel may be a possibility, but tossing some pulverized magnesium in a gas can to increase octane would not be a consistent way to make more HP.
The other thing is, higher octane, by itself, does not increase the output of an engine. Higher octane allows you to increase timing advance, increase compression ration, etc.....If the magnesium was added in a scientific manner, they still would of had to "cheat" to take advantage of the higher octane.
Smokey Yunick (Stock Car racer) used to get around rules, like gas tank limitations. Turns out, if you use large diameter fuel lines, for example, parts of the roll cage, for fuel line, you can get an extra gallon or 2 in the car. That may be enough to finish a race without a stop.
This sounds like shenanigans, IMHO.
kopcicle
antidisestablishmentarian
Yes many odd , counter intuitive , strange things have been done in a race environment to gain just that extra 1/10 ....
Until there was anything more than hydrometer/specific gravity testing of fuels many attempts were made to concoct either better knock resistance or provide and oxygen carrier so more fuel could be used .
All manner of things made their way into fuel . This is the first I've heard of powdered metal in the tank .
Obfuscation , or better hiding in plain sight has been a time honored method as well . Grump Jenkins when asked for the cam that had came out of a race winning car fished around in a bucket of solvent and cam up with a legal cam . Both Grump and Pops Yoshimura ground base circle and added it to the nose of the cam . Minimum and maximum dimensions were within tolerance but if placed in Vee blocks with a dial indicator ...
Petty racing was caught plumbing nitrous several times . Once plumbing it into the back of the block through a dummy hydraulic clutch system and again holding it in a double wall oil pan .
Even more misleading and not specifically illegal was the Lotus 78 . The Lotus 72 was getting left behind in 75 with Mario and Ronnie frustrated . Over the winter Collin put a wild idea to use with the help of a talented crew built the Lotus 78 . All season Long the differential was never left exposed for more than an instant . There was even a pit procedure to obscure it for the brief seconds it was viewed in the pits . It sent teams scurrying to their individual and collective brain trusts to find what "secret" Lotus had applied to their differential that had made the car (when reliable) near uncatchable in the turns . Formula one had an inkling what was going on and had a conversation with Collin that resulted in his innovation being recognized in the rule book the following year but for the balance of the season Lotus had the original ground effects to themselves . A classic case of misdirection as the differential was a stock Hewland and the real secret was the under body air control .
just some random thoughts ...
~kop
Until there was anything more than hydrometer/specific gravity testing of fuels many attempts were made to concoct either better knock resistance or provide and oxygen carrier so more fuel could be used .
All manner of things made their way into fuel . This is the first I've heard of powdered metal in the tank .
Obfuscation , or better hiding in plain sight has been a time honored method as well . Grump Jenkins when asked for the cam that had came out of a race winning car fished around in a bucket of solvent and cam up with a legal cam . Both Grump and Pops Yoshimura ground base circle and added it to the nose of the cam . Minimum and maximum dimensions were within tolerance but if placed in Vee blocks with a dial indicator ...
Petty racing was caught plumbing nitrous several times . Once plumbing it into the back of the block through a dummy hydraulic clutch system and again holding it in a double wall oil pan .
Even more misleading and not specifically illegal was the Lotus 78 . The Lotus 72 was getting left behind in 75 with Mario and Ronnie frustrated . Over the winter Collin put a wild idea to use with the help of a talented crew built the Lotus 78 . All season Long the differential was never left exposed for more than an instant . There was even a pit procedure to obscure it for the brief seconds it was viewed in the pits . It sent teams scurrying to their individual and collective brain trusts to find what "secret" Lotus had applied to their differential that had made the car (when reliable) near uncatchable in the turns . Formula one had an inkling what was going on and had a conversation with Collin that resulted in his innovation being recognized in the rule book the following year but for the balance of the season Lotus had the original ground effects to themselves . A classic case of misdirection as the differential was a stock Hewland and the real secret was the under body air control .
just some random thoughts ...
~kop
mydlyfkryzis
当有疑问时踢你的敌人在生殖器上，你可以道歉后
You would still need to mod the engine to take advantage of that. The article implies a drop in the tank increase in HP....
mydlyfkryzis
当有疑问时踢你的敌人在生殖器上，你可以道歉后
Would one not want the peak pressure to arrive at the optimum time? A faster flame front also means an earlier peak cylinder pressure. I would suppose ignition timing, at the minimum would be adjusted to compensate.
I don't think my CB360 will add a whole lot of HP with the mere addition of colloidal Mg to the fuel and no other changes. If fact, if peak pressure arrive to early, or too late, I may find a reduction in power.
To get a significant HP increase, as suggested by the article, there must of been some er, adjustments, somewhere...
I don't think my CB360 will add a whole lot of HP with the mere addition of colloidal Mg to the fuel and no other changes. If fact, if peak pressure arrive to early, or too late, I may find a reduction in power.
To get a significant HP increase, as suggested by the article, there must of been some er, adjustments, somewhere...
SONICJK
Reminds me of...me No, I'm sure of it. I hate him
I don't think they are talking about a significant increase, they are talking 1/10 of a second lap time I would assume where races are really won.
The mg is just a sidebar as an example of how far they were willing to go to get all the power they could.
But your probably right you would need to adjust timing at the least.
The mg is just a sidebar as an example of how far they were willing to go to get all the power they could.
But your probably right you would need to adjust timing at the least.
Texasstar
Can't is a four letter dirty word
Jack Wilson and Pete Dalio did this in the 50's...they would do anything to win. They had a bet with a competing dealer to race two stock bikes against each other. Jack tore down that bike that night without leaving a trace... New cam, valves, 12 to 1 compression. They won.Sonreir said: