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Turn your Brain Off and Shoot the Shit => The Collections => Cafe Racers => Topic started by: onefromexile on Aug 20, 2016, 16:45:15

Title: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 20, 2016, 16:45:15
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/3d83727f8dd2ffe9c031e99356396593.jpg)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 20, 2016, 16:46:48
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/0be6fe215a54ee16abef55cb11d72cb8.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/cf7d3f9d9f1aba76c8585a985301a0d0.jpg)
This is the bike how I found a barn find $400



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: trek97 on Aug 20, 2016, 18:08:36
The PO needs to refund $350.   ;)

JK, Looks like a project.  Welcome to DTT.

Its funny cause it looks about the same shape as the 360 "deviant" drug home a couple weeks ago.  Maybe got them from the same guy.
 
(http://www.dotheton.com/gallery/11494-200816161421.png)
Title: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 20, 2016, 18:14:53
It's been decent so far


(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/f7a019139e5a88d3e6194c497150dfd6.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/e2b31c1e15b741c850e74287ee09beca.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/72bc901c2d2a353389ddd056b09312d3.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/ac8286b829e76e4de7bf743634512eeb.jpg)
Here is a few picks of the tear down
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: trek97 on Aug 20, 2016, 18:18:20
So, whats your plan for it?
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 20, 2016, 19:08:01
Wow  great shape
Mine has only 9000 original miles
Was a one owner bike
Based of the vin lookup
I thing my bike is #303



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 20, 2016, 19:09:20
I plan on something in between these two builds(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/71a9a2d32977ab752c46949023856805.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/998ab66341ca18a423c1978166750a7f.jpg)



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 20, 2016, 19:11:17
I'm keeping the scrambler style exhaust


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 20, 2016, 20:17:01
I basically been slowly building on the motor first and cleaning up all the rust of the frame(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/87af2fae5ae66f566ab1e529d64562d0.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/4b53abb3ded5667cb31487994b74efd9.jpg)


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Title: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 20, 2016, 20:19:34
Here is a few pics of work on motor and cases motor is black metallic now and cases are copper metallic
Has a very vintage look to it
Not sure yet on a color for the bike yet(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/7b8cd501a440aca88be2c8b5812d0c21.jpg)IMG]http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160820/51e38f61c48233039c3585ee028e4299.jpg[/IMG]


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: trek97 on Aug 20, 2016, 20:34:54
Nice!  Actually the red bike you posted is owned by a DTT member here.  its been so long ago now I cant recall which user he is.  But he may pop in before youre finished.

The other bike needs more work (fenders, muffler and footpegs relocated further back a bit maybe? ) but its a nice looking build.

Did you get have thing running before you took it all apart?   
Title: First build ever
Post by: advCo on Aug 20, 2016, 20:39:20
Im guessing you didnt get the thing running before you took it all apart?

I was wondering the same I'd get the piston to cylinder bore clearance checked to be safe, check the ring end gaps, new wrist pins to say the very least. Like the paint another member just used a similar color engine paint might have to keep it neutral with the frame/tank paint now though.

Also do the oil mods, read up on crazypj's 360 thread or just search cb360 oil mods you'll find em, call it preventative maintenance.

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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 21, 2016, 20:33:07
Yes thanks for all the info
No the bike was not running
It had been garaged since 92 it was complete except the seat even the rusty tool kit

As far as engine work I've done all myself with assistance from my job
I work at a precision machine shop
The engine was pretty clean
Inside and out once I got all the case screws out
I've upgraded to Allen bolts
For assembly
As far as Pistons the originals were decent just cleaned em up and cylinders just need a fresh hone to get fresh cross hatches
All measurements were well within tolerance

It's a slow process
one part a week i try to buy
Working on new gasket set and rings and tensioner kit
Then motor should be all buttoned up



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: itsmissmia on Aug 22, 2016, 04:12:24
Who makes that copper metallic paint? Is it a powder coat?

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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 22, 2016, 21:42:25
I got it at Autozone its engine enamel
You have to use the primer too but it's rated to 650f


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 22, 2016, 21:43:21
I baked mine in the oven to make sure no paint bubbled
And it stuck great


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 30, 2016, 04:17:40
Ok so I've done some more work on motor but unfortunately found this forum after so it seems I'll be waiting on putting top end together until I do some  more cosmetic work on the jugs
Right now my engine is metallic black w/metallic copper cases
I'm going to buy a dremel and do some interesting stuff
I'll be sure to post pics
Also plan on doing crazypj's oil mods and posting pics as well just to get the info and pics out there again

I will update tomorrow with pics  of paint



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 30, 2016, 04:20:35
https://vimeo.com/180701217 (https://vimeo.com/180701217)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 30, 2016, 19:12:54
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160830/f0db0f289b72460947cb50ccc6f53641.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160830/69deac5789eb9d04454cae94e947c895.jpg)



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 30, 2016, 19:13:34
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160830/d467f263b09a9d79aec32991cc5ed91f.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160830/b7943a0f955f13e50e412f4d75809fd9.jpg)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 30, 2016, 21:47:53
Unfortunately due to Rochester humidity I gotta re clean all my surfaces before putting new gaskets
But that's an easy clean up
Shouldn't damage my paint job either


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 30, 2016, 21:50:27
I kinda wanna dremel or grind flats on my engine cooling fins to give in that custom look and break up some of the dark lines



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 06, 2016, 01:26:22
Well I started grinding the fins and polishing them it looks great but now I need to fix paint
I definately recommend using vht primer before enamel
Especially on jug and head


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 08, 2016, 19:34:21
Another while your in there mod
I started the port and polish my head also plan on getting new valves and lapping new seats
They had to come out regardless for new stem seals
No point doing complete rebuild on bottom to top
engine without doing a valve job
And while I'm there port intake and polish combustion chambers

I've got six hours on it so far
It's tedious but well worth it
I've spent less than 20 bucks on dremel bits


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 09, 2016, 16:31:42
Updated picture (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160909/7535185052bcadc633dfd5b4fd054c39.jpg)
The valves were caked in crap
Glad I decided on the port and polish



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 09, 2016, 16:33:33
I'm done with porting half done with polish
I've got 9 hours in so far
Agh but damn it looks good and should improve
Fuel atomization
And air flow


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: teazer on Sep 09, 2016, 16:49:44
... should improve Fuel atomization
And air flow

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Please explain the fuel atomization theory of polished ports.  Polishing inlets leads to reduced flow and fuel puddling.  A nice "as machined" finish flows better and keeps fuel in suspension better than polished ports.

The only benefit of polishing combustion chambers and exhaust ports is to reduce carbon build up and on low mile bikes, that's not really an issue.

Did you follow the AGBell and Vizard inlet port shapes and how did you resolve the fact that certain portions of the inlet tract are too large already?
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Sep 09, 2016, 19:22:19
Yeah, so did you weld the ports to close them in some sort of squish them down then re shape em? wheres the pics I really am intrigued  ???
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 09, 2016, 20:14:52
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160909/b97f180f96af2faea4bb9072801e2767.jpg)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 09, 2016, 20:15:21
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160909/c7a1f41162fdb685d0957f43a187f71a.jpg)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 09, 2016, 20:15:54
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160909/0762bb4604a83101e6c1a988ca5ca692.jpg)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 09, 2016, 20:16:44
I still got a lot more work but this is 9 hours


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 10, 2016, 15:21:52
Teaser Polishing intake is not what I said not what you want to go for you actually want a rougher finish on the porting because the small grooves create turbulence and that's what helps to atomize the fuel
It's a bigger thing for a carb engine but has little effect on injected vehicles
A carburetor has to mix fuel and air by time it gets through intake to combustion chamber
An injector sprays a mist
Hence the air and gas has been atomized by time it sprays out into chamber



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Title: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 10, 2016, 15:32:08
I just went off their theory
And cleaned up the casting marks and if you look closely at how the intake ports air flows stock
The goal is to clean up any intrusions and I wanted to get rid of the kind of lip and bend inside the port which seems to restrict flow  once valve opens
I also might back cut my valves at 30 degrees
I'll try to draw a diagram of the material removal



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 10, 2016, 15:43:05
As for combustion chamber
Polishing I believe smoother surface helps with heat transfer and does prevent carbon build up but the main thing Is keeping consistent lower temperatures promoting cleaner burn
Higher power


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 10, 2016, 15:58:31
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160910/c3794d2cc73d55ea07bd8a625031a240.jpg)
I wish I could illustrate better
But it basically was bottle necked bad inside I just cleaned up the casting marks and made a cleaner less restrictive path to the valve opening


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 10, 2016, 16:06:03
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160910/c3794d2cc73d55ea07bd8a625031a240.jpg)
I wish I could illustrate better
But it basically was bottle necked bad inside I just cleaned up the casting marks and made a cleaner less restrictive path to the valve opening


Sent from my iPhone using DO THE TON (https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=89466)hould be noted port and polish is a theory
That some believe some don't
There is a wrong way to do it and a right way is how far you wanna go with it until it becomes wrong

I believe in more air more power
I've also known all the highest power producing engines all have this service done
So it's something to be said why it's done if there is no real gains ???
Because it can improve your engine if done properly





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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Sep 10, 2016, 16:24:58
Ever poured a pitcher of beer down your throat?

Me too  :o
Title: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 10, 2016, 16:30:47
Yes I know what you mean
I went for better flow without changing or slowing the velocity which would be a result of opening up the port diameter

I kept port openings stock size minus roughing with 80grit also the left was 3  thousand diff than right stock cast I'm  going to counter sink the inner diameter too and clean pass on the face
These 360 heads need just clean up of casting and the amount of material and where removed should be what I wanted
We will see one day how it affected my motor



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 10, 2016, 16:31:51
I'll try to post better pics
See if I can get a better visual


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: teazer on Sep 10, 2016, 16:49:02
How do you know if you changed velocity?  Larger ports tend to reduce velocity and will reduce flow as well if they are the wrong shape.  A.G.Bell has a nice section in his book on 4 stroke performance that explains the different parts of a part and their relative shapes/sizes.

On the fuel side, you are almost right but slightly back to front.  Fuel is mixed with air in a carb and the fuel  is changed from fluid in the float bowl to small droplets as it emerges from the needle jet.  By mixing air with the fuel in the so called "emulsion tube" the droplet sizes are reduced. Those droplets are not vaporized by a rough surface, but will separate out of the flow in a polished port.  Fuel injection as the advantage of pressure.  Where a carb relies on atmosphere./gravity/pressure differential to get the fuel moving, FI can operate at much higher pressure and potentially through small orifices all of which encourages smaller droplets which burn faster.

In the combustion chamber a polished surface will reduce heat transfer and the mixture temperature will potentially be higher leading to detonation in a worse case scenario.  There are those who argue that a thin layer of carbon protects the heads even though it will raise the head temperature and reduce combustion temperature slightly.  You could conduct your own experiments to see which variable has the greatest effect in your particular situation.

"More air only means more power" only when gas velocity is high and flow into the head is higher.  With the same size valves and cams, porting is only useful to the degree to which flow is restricted.  If a head already flows more than the motor needs, any further flow increase just results in lower velocity, less turbulence and slower combustion. The most critical area of a port is the 1/2 inch to an inch just before the seat.

One thing to avoid is directing the flow at the valve stem, the gas has to go around the valve to fill the combustion chamber and the easy thing to do is to open it's mouth behind the seat and that hurts flow.

Grab a copy of Bell and read all you can by Vizard and ignore most of what you read on the internet.   :-)
Title: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 10, 2016, 17:02:42
Yes yes I did
Go off vizards theories
In his book
I was unable to find a direct match for porting a 360engine
So I applied what I learned t o my build and
I mostly just got rid of casting impurities and port matched and cleaner path
Hard to explain exactly how much was changed
But I will say only time will tell
I'm confident in the info I've received from all my great friends on dtt
My own knowledge and skill
And the way I did it I think will be benificial
I'll be sure to let everyone know my results(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160910/7c3e269cdea62b60aba8dc70a911f036.jpg)





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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 10, 2016, 17:08:50
Thanks teazer
Love the support !!
Dtt is awesome





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Title: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 10, 2016, 17:18:04
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160910/92c9b3f1d8f6c38fefa6ea20ff361dcd.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160910/c92e31c3352858ac8d9310e12ba2fee9.jpg)


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I'm thinking my air flow is better and before the ports directed air strait at valve stem
Now it directs more towards back of mouth of the valve seat and swirls around like a vortex
Theoretically of course!!!
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 10, 2016, 21:15:59
Ok new update
In talking to another DTT member my work will continue on the head I am going to work on the exhaust port
Will post pictures as its finished


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Sep 10, 2016, 21:44:39
PM advice eh.  :-\  Mitch Payton ? lol

Keep us posted looking forward to the results.
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 10, 2016, 22:31:16
Crazypj' 


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: teazer on Sep 11, 2016, 02:29:55
Doesn't look too bad.  The exhaust is where you will probably make most gains.  Too long since I looked at a 360 head but most Honda twins of the era were exhaust restricted and respond well to clean ups.  The floor really needs to be raised but that requires a lot of cutting and welding, and not really worth it.

Crazy PJ is a guy that really knows those motors.  So do a couple of the other guys on DTT. 
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: Tune-A-Fishİ on Sep 11, 2016, 08:32:17
Ok I confess... I know naaaaada about the porting of a honduh 360 head, I know some CRF 250 and 450 from racing days and yeah Mitch Payton is an inspiration.

https://youtu.be/5BfVF0wPli4
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 11, 2016, 12:59:10
Yeah makes you wanna do stuff to your own bike


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 15, 2016, 15:22:39
Just came up on a cb175 in decent shape
Thinking about picking it up any thoughts??????


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: teazer on Sep 15, 2016, 20:49:08
Don't hurt your back.  Bend your knees.   :-)
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: teazer on Sep 15, 2016, 20:49:42
Great little bikes if they are in good condition and cheap. 
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 15, 2016, 21:40:34
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160915/88f01983db754e7ddccc26958e2c8b36.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160915/ea2f424dd865a843d19eafcc5c17309d.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160915/173df7c2d7d2451134f0afeafe850a75.jpg)
Here is a few picks
I guess it needs new Pistons



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 16, 2016, 12:24:41
More pictures of the progression of the head port and polish(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160916/a9a176dd428b6b91d59a865e9bdd604b.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160916/487f14a96d80100b19a1487c59ed7660.jpg)exhaust side
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160916/a8af932ceb76ab0417f86b4a28a79c79.jpg)below the mouth of valve on exhaust side


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: teazer on Sep 18, 2016, 00:55:29
Why are the cylinder liners out of the barrels?  That can't be a good sign. 

Small Hondas often have liners that come loose with very little heat, so they have to be refitted with a suitable grade of loctite and clamp them while they set.  If not they cannot be bored or honed and even if they could they will overheat in a running motor. 

Liners have to be an interference fit so that they transfer heat to the cylinder and fins. 

BTW, on those ports, just clean up the inlets and don't open them up and on the exhausts raise the roof and try to avoid dropping the floor.
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 18, 2016, 01:26:53
That's from a cb175 I might buy
But the other pictures show my head work it's right on line with everyone's advice
And my research


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 18, 2016, 01:42:42
I left alone intake except rough clean up of casting marks exhaust however I opened up bowl below mouth of valve to port and ported the top half
So on its side a d shape


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 18, 2016, 02:11:58
I left the old crush washer in as a guide it helped get a good even shape


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 18, 2016, 02:14:05
The CB 175 had a stuck piston I guess guy got overwhelmed wanted to sell
I'd just buy a new hug and Pistons make sure crank is ok


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 18, 2016, 02:14:52
Jug
But he hasn't messaged back to sell yet


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 23, 2016, 20:14:09
Who hoo just scored a set of gs850 Pistons
This baby will be a 378 now


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 24, 2016, 21:49:58
So I'm nearly done with the head work
It's been quite the task matching the intakes to within a thousandth
The exhaust side got extensive work and the chambers and exhaust port are smooth and clean like mirrors and matched to within a thou also
I'll be going with the 378cc
Upgrade so once completed I'd like to see some solid numbers I may pay to have head flow tested
If I can find stock numbers
Im positive in a significant improvement over stock




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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 24, 2016, 21:56:52
And yes I had a hard time trying to port match intake side without taking away
As it's been researched 360's already have a great if not overkill amount of intake flow
But with the new displacement from gs850 Pistons in the plan
Any minute amount of  metal I removed from intake side cleaning up casting marks and port matching shouldn't negatively affect performance





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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 24, 2016, 22:00:18
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160924/b3332559a2d7918f9360fb122811ef27.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160924/cc5331aa39111922a29d8fba25ae4845.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160924/df6a43e9c7c0e8a557d2a104a3e90af6.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160924/097f8aa38dcbb2beb62650f6fb79b804.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160924/50b18a2987d124906ca140eab25414ca.jpg)
The pictures show the left and right intake and notice the rough finish left on the intake ports I kept it a 220




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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Sep 25, 2016, 17:47:54
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160925/2948fc9fddb5bc4d1eaf9f341110856e.jpg)chambers


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Oct 06, 2016, 21:43:51
New/old Pistons arrived
3 out of 4 very useable very clean
1 piston no good
And gs850 head
Which I don't need and will put up for sale  right away

Bottom line I got my set plus one extra
And two sets of wrist pins and clips

378  here we go(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161007/0beeb1e1677d30e7677a3435b376ff22.jpg)



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Oct 06, 2016, 21:45:46
By very clean I meant actual metal surfaces
Have no scores or scratches
The cylinders still have honed cross hatches




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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Oct 20, 2016, 01:39:52
Haven't been able to update much baby should be coming any day now

However I have done a lil work on the seat
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161020/92406fd9ef19990875ee28f99c121ea1.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161020/55f571cee1bf738e59937950a4232269.jpg)



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Nov 25, 2016, 15:25:23
In process of developing
Oil cooling system
Tcs  micro pumps
Runs about 1-7watts (controlled)
Pushes just under a liter of fluid at a constant  6psi
Should be bolt on system application except valve cover
I'll try to post a few pictures of the design drawings

It will utilize starter nose cone and end cone  thinking plexi tube in between cones inside will house micropump and controller
Lines in/out to from engine
Small oil cooler etc.

With upgraded charging system and led lighting conversion
There is enough watts to spare 1-5 for my oil system
Depending on rpms





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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Nov 28, 2016, 18:20:34
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161128/5ceb3310824fa8be3e26b315f8bb8261.jpg)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 08, 2017, 19:01:16
About to start reassembly of my motor
Have the lower end all ready put back together
All new seals gaskets hardware
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170608/2c6449a86f55d706beafc00a64314cae.jpg)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 14, 2017, 21:22:47
[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170615/f721666e1e3384f34c7a3890e3de5ab3.jpg[/IMGF


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 14, 2017, 21:24:02
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170615/279315fc3914361057594eb161285840.jpg)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 14, 2017, 21:26:33
Finally got my seat shape
Now I gotta do a few layers of glass and lots of sanding
Do some work on underside

Slow progress


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 14, 2017, 21:27:49
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170615/1213d4c9929081e33533ce13ca032544.jpg)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 14, 2017, 21:32:53
I'm using a stainless steel hinge cut and bolted to under lip of tank yes the hinge will be removable from tank and the hinge pin
The rear will be locked down with Zeus fasteners
On the side the underside has clearance for electronics
And gets air for keeping cool



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 14, 2017, 21:35:05
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170615/3490fa7733e5a695eabbf9dc43081d7f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170615/8d48f03f67ddd2a4cee837c3fe35eacc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170615/9668304beaeecb710f23d8f566b552fc.jpg)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 15, 2017, 02:06:53
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170615/50b1441274d3715c1c42e17f8a1fffc9.jpg)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 15, 2017, 02:11:49
Lots of shitty welds
Lots of grinding
Since picked up a new welder
Just couldn't do it without gas
It was struggling to fuse 18 gauge to frame
Without.burning through sheet
Lower setting wouldn't fuse to frame ugh

Anyhow will update frame pics after the finish welds and prep and primer

Undecided on blackmatte  or matte charcoal metallic


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: HDJ80 on Jun 15, 2017, 02:44:37
I kinda like it as is...  Clear coat the frame. 

Peter
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 15, 2017, 17:33:50
I do like the raw metal look
If I can get it pretty clean
I might try to heat  up (blue ) around the welds with a torch and this metal dye I've been wanting to try
That might be a cool look
For frame



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 25, 2017, 22:41:19
Did a lil more welding on the rear and started the bondo

I'm not powder coating
I'm doing all my own work so I'm gonna do paint too
I'm not the greatest not the worst   Sometimes a lil made it nice cause had to do it twice lol  but if I take my time it comes out great
Haven't sanded bondo yet just testing on the rear hoop
I got more sanding and cleaning on rest of frame before I bondo my creases and primer but it's a start (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170626/551d98355367a03a7490bfaf5e25a567.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170626/359a9c8fd65b67e1ce6c56b9c330484c.jpg)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 25, 2017, 22:44:51
Also wanted to post pics of some motor bling
Just finished up all the work and blasting ect
I got over 25 hours alone in dremel and hand sanding filing polishing
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170626/da7b322f49333bd209f7453955cfa564.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170626/4be03711414fffd4abc264f3332b735a.jpg)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 25, 2017, 22:48:32
Here is shots of the inside work on the intakes
First I cleaned up the casting lines and crude took very lil because was told 360's have great intake
Kept a rough like 120
I port matched as best I could they measure within a few thou of each other
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170626/627b70c06d20df228272fd111cbb2148.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170626/851aeb001ba66d511a834af9c737ba4a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170626/6820b99650247e87fd36e2990c568e17.jpg)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 25, 2017, 22:53:46
Exhaust side got opened up
Substantially
Got more advice on how to shape and what to remove
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170626/40c4fe40c04d9d240e2b75d4ac3c0360.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170626/52930fcb4aa494f7331d94e0881ebbb2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170626/91932905e05480b02ed37232d29e9888.jpg)

Also got Schumann motorworks bronze valve guides I'll be installing next
I did not deck my head at all it was flat already after stoning
Used a $20,000 CMM inspection machine at work to check measurements
Overkill


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: irk miller on Jun 25, 2017, 23:42:09
Loving that motor.
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 26, 2017, 01:13:28
Yeah I really got my fingers crossed for a bad little ripper
I got bored to gs850 Pistons
not going to get a cam and explore the whole heavy valve springs and eat my head   Bearing journals
But besides that
Did all the recommended mods and it should have better performance and will sound killer less restricted

Wondering if custom headers that have bigger I.d over stock would really help that much more
Cause these stock pipes are pretty small and there is room with the design of the collars to go fatter




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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: irk miller on Jun 26, 2017, 07:59:25
Depends on what carbs you're using.  The CV carbs will benefit from a longer, narrower exhaust. 
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 26, 2017, 10:06:42
I'll be running stock carbs
Done up by pj
He and a few others talked me into it
Dtt the best


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: trek97 on Jun 26, 2017, 23:31:37
The CV carbs will benefit from a longer, narrower exhaust.

+1
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 26, 2017, 23:37:02
So keep the stock pipes ??
I planned on wrapped pipes
No mufflers but a lil longer than stock (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170627/5426c5df2408964ede6f8387dde09b3a.jpg)
Similar to these I like the mufflers too



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: trek97 on Jun 27, 2017, 08:43:39
I would keep (atleast start with) the stock exhaust set up, get her tuned in and running.  Then make changes and see how it goes later.
I had the slash cut version of those glass packs, made tuning carbs difficult + too loud for me.
I currently have and like the 18" cone engineering, quiet-er cores.

http://www.coneeng.com/pdf/motorcycle/MC-finished-Mufflers.pdf
 
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jun 27, 2017, 09:49:28
Yes
That was my biggest mistake
I started with a total mess
Engine had a stuck valve
Bike hadn't been riding since 93'
I've come along way over the last year
Wish I had a running bike to start with
Definitely want to do a cb750  one day brat style
So I can passenger cl360 just a lil too small lol


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 01, 2017, 01:17:12
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170701/edd13d34c0e7fea1436f46c809daeed4.jpg)rocker box with new rockers
Much happier with these no spalling or wear 2 from mine two I got



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 20, 2017, 22:18:35
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170701/edd13d34c0e7fea1436f46c809daeed4.jpg)rocker box with new rockers
Much happier with these no spalling or wear 2 from mine two I got



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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170721/f4a1fee3c44cb1a4f182a2494638d27c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170721/1101d4e8a05eff37bdd2bce386fee436.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170721/a8f6bd7876cf355b69eacd776292978a.jpg)
The frame hangs
Primed as the sun went down
Finally no more rust sweating my frame



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: crazypj on Jul 21, 2017, 18:43:35
So keep the stock pipes ??
I planned on wrapped pipes
No mufflers but a lil longer than stock
Similar to these I like the mufflers too



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It will work much better if you keep glass-packs where they are and use 1-1/2"~1-3/4" pipes extending back another foot or so.
You could even move them forward slightly so they tuck in better then have long pipes out the back. £60's perform MUCH better with a long exhaust system
Title: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 21, 2017, 18:52:09
It will work much better if you keep glass-packs where they are and use 1-1/2"~1-3/4" pipes extending back another foot or so.
You could even move them forward slightly so they tuck in better then have long pipes out the back. £60's perform MUCH better with a long exhaust system
So add a lil to the overall length
Move glass packs up a lil and have about 8 inches more pipe sticking out from the packs


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: crazypj on Jul 21, 2017, 20:30:54
Just did a very quick Photoshop (I'm lousy at picture editing) You really need pipes as long as possible and closer to equal length
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 21, 2017, 20:52:47
Just did a very quick Photoshop (I'm lousy at picture editing) You really need pipes as long as possible and closer to equal length
Interesting what about trying to tuck under seat
I know there is already lil clearance there
Decent photoshop though
I was gonna sketch up one lol



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: crazypj on Jul 21, 2017, 20:56:43
I think you would need pipes coming either side of cylinders to make a nice looking underseat exhaust, both coming in from left just doesn't sound right?
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 21, 2017, 22:42:06
I think you would need pipes coming either side of cylinders to make a nice looking underseat exhaust, both coming in from left just doesn't sound right?
Yes unless two to one and run it oval
Under seat but that's prolly too extreme for me and this build
I don't think it looks too bad in the photoshop image having longer pipes like that
My seat is a lil longer than the bike in picture so that will help with the look


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: crazypj on Jul 22, 2017, 20:55:40
The intake is sized for a 400 motor stock so you have to be very careful doing any mods. I tend to smooth it out slightly and unrestrict valve guide boss. The exhaust side is the restricted area, you can pretty much carve on it without hurting any flow (although it is possible to go too far it takes a lot of cutting). With a 378cc conversion everything works much better. The AG Bell books give a lot of information that works but David Vizard keeps up with later developments (I guess he 'invented' some of the stuff various racing engines use?)
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 22, 2017, 21:19:34
The intake is sized for a 400 motor stock so you have to be very careful doing any mods. I tend to smooth it out slightly and unrestrict valve guide boss. The exhaust side is the restricted area, you can pretty much carve on it without hurting any flow (although it is possible to go too far it takes a lot of cutting). With a 378cc conversion everything works much better. The AG Bell books give a lot of information that works but David Vizard keeps up with later developments (I guess he 'invented' some of the stuff various racing engines use?)


Yeah I was unable to find anything specific in his books for a 360 motor but
Was able to learn a lot and understand the theories and principles behind it

So I went with your advice and his theories and ended up with great looking head lots of work like 45+ hours into it stayed away from intake side just cleaned up some of the poop from casting and was able to use a pretty expensive piece of inspection equipment to port he match as.close I could
It's within a thou
Roundness and diameter
The exhaust worked(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/7eab1716c70b6d1167eda0d203978d4c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/ccecb819b440932396714415038f2a37.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/9acb42f39578906fe8b3b45f0874da18.jpg)
Gs850 Pistons had to have em
I'm hoping for solid results improvements


I just had new bronze guides driven
And last is new valves
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/86c7af13ea33f3f5aa9302d3ae10269d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/7599d01fddc16ef975a24fd8dba1d44c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/e95bc3345214914508800f57d4ff40be.jpg)



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 22, 2017, 21:20:59

Yeah I was unable to find anything specific in his books for a 360 motor but
Was able to learn a lot and understand the theories and principles behind it

So I went with your advice and his theories and ended up with great looking head lots of work like 45+ hours into it stayed away from intake side just cleaned up some of the poop from casting and was able to use a pretty expensive piece of inspection equipment to port he match as.close I could
It's within a thou
Roundness and diameter
The exhaust worked(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/7eab1716c70b6d1167eda0d203978d4c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/ccecb819b440932396714415038f2a37.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/9acb42f39578906fe8b3b45f0874da18.jpg)
Gs850 Pistons had to have em
I'm hoping for solid results improvements


I just had new bronze guides driven
And last is new valves
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/86c7af13ea33f3f5aa9302d3ae10269d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/7599d01fddc16ef975a24fd8dba1d44c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/e95bc3345214914508800f57d4ff40be.jpg)



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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/fb77929d490feafa0caf97c0a44199af.jpg)



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: crazypj on Jul 22, 2017, 21:29:52
45 hrs sounds a bit much but as you had some specialised equipment to match left and right I guess it's not too bad.
 Long time ago (around 1980) I spent over 25 hrs doing just one intake on a GS550 then around the same to get the other 3 intakes matched (much easier when you have a pattern to follow) Turned out a stupidly fast bike after big bore conversion, frame welding, stock carbs bored oversize and a full race exhaist and cams (around 170 mph but not with me on it  :o ) Honda VFR 750 had just been launched, it was great fun running away and hiding from them on what looked like a POS  ;D 8)
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 23, 2017, 00:37:59
45 hrs sounds a bit much but as you had some specialised equipment to match left and right I guess it's not too bad.
 Long time ago (around 1980) I spent over 25 hrs doing just one intake on a GS550 then around the same to get the other 3 intakes matched (much easier when you have a pattern to follow) Turned out a stupidly fast bike after big bore conversion, frame welding, stock carbs bored oversize and a full race exhaist and cams (around 170 mph but not with me on it  :o ) Honda VFR 750 had just been launched, it was great fun running away and hiding from them on what looked like a POS  ;D 8)
I spent way to much time on it but he is my first full build on a motorcycle
Even when I acquire and build more down the line he will be my prize my daily rider
I used a cmm inspection machine
I checked every surface ,angle , dimension , I've been so precise remember our ring gap and cylinder bore discussion??
I shopped around finally found a shop that can guarantee my specs wanted
I even had my gs Pistons polished perfect both same size but one is a lil less than a gram heavier
Overkill
I do want my 360 to be bad ass
I don't want to go extreme like cams I only have aluminum seats lol you know
I do plan on an upper oil mod
But I have an extra rocker box cover and such for that
I'd love to discuss more on
I've found micro pump that would be perfect for it
Vfr750 I just picked up a 94 it was free just had to pay gas to pick it up
I had a discussion going about using any of it on a cb750 roller I also got for free




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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: crazypj on Jul 23, 2017, 13:38:15
I've given a dedicated 'top end' oil pump a lot of thought over the years but decided against it every time. Modification plus better voil seems to have cured the 'problem'. I've stripped a few motors now that look better than when they were assembled.I am doing the external oil line bypassing filter on a couple of engines though.
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 23, 2017, 20:02:39
I've given a dedicated 'top end' oil pump a lot of thought over the years but decided against it every time. Modification plus better voil seems to have cured the 'problem'. I've stripped a few motors now that look better than when they were assembled.I am doing the external oil line bypassing filter on a couple of engines though.

I plan on running no external yet but still work on developing a system
Mostly for cooling the oil

Look at what I just dragged home(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/59cefd04c2f7df9217da2b448d3b4eec.jpg)


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 23, 2017, 20:20:13
Look at what I just dragged home(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/59cefd04c2f7df9217da2b448d3b4eec.jpg)


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84' gs400



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: crazypj on Jul 25, 2017, 23:34:41
That motor is very under-stressed and over engineered. It never developed anywhere close to full potential. I would bump it to 500cc with later 500 twin parts  ;)
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 26, 2017, 14:56:31
That motor is very under-stressed and over engineered. It never developed anywhere close to full potential. I would bump it to 500cc with later 500 twin parts  ;)
Ohh do tell all
Turns out it's an 80' gs450 frame 80'  gs450 engine too
Right now I cleaned up the wires they were melted together
Po was trying to run a single dual output coil wondering why wouldn't run and tried to silicone the bad intake boot
Definitely a lot of hacked work but I pulled it all off and went to simplifying
In needs one carb boot and fork seals few things but I can run it and use it while I build my 378
I'd like to eventually do a tracker brat
Versatile lil beast


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 27, 2017, 15:16:59
Ohh do tell all
Turns out it's an 80' gs450 frame 80'  gs450 engine too
Right now I cleaned up the wires they were melted together
Po was trying to run a single dual output coil wondering why wouldn't run and tried to silicone the bad intake boot
Definitely a lot of hacked work but I pulled it all off and went to simplifying
In needs one carb boot and fork seals few things but I can run it and use it while I build my 378
I'd like to eventually do a tracker brat
Versatile lil beast


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Let me say further on the coil
I don't think it can be used on this bike because it has no points condenser
However I have seen a single dual output coil used on honda twin
So I'm a lil confused but
Will look into it further
I'm pretty sure I can use old singles on the gs


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: crazypj on Jul 28, 2017, 21:41:10
It all depends on crank configuration. A 180 crank needs two coils but 360 crank can use a dual lead coil. Even then, two coils is actually better though
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 29, 2017, 09:57:11
It all depends on crank configuration. A 180 crank needs two coils but 360 crank can use a dual lead coil. Even then, two coils is actually better though
Back to the oiling
And my original build

What do you think about modifying a starter delete plug and fitting and bending a small pickup tube to sump oil
 Through external cooler /filter to head While engine is on side stand or high rpm
I could even have on demand power before starting to avoid dry starts
This system will be totally independant from original oil /filter system
I'll be drawing low amps constant
And it will be sumping  from left side of lower end
That way I'm not taking from the oil pick up and slinger
I'd use 1/8" inch copper lines fittings
To help with cooling further
The pump has its own intergrated controller and small enough to mount inside starter case shell and run lines out maybe easier to use starter nose
I have to show you the drawings
But it's by far the least power draw and smallest compact efficient system I've been able to come up with




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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: crazypj on Jul 29, 2017, 21:08:02
I was going to do something very similar. Drill a pick up hole just below where the baffle plate rod sits so it's higher than the sump pick up. That way the electric pump will never be able to drain sump (although oil in head will get to mains and big ends with back-flow/drain
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 29, 2017, 21:39:56
I was going to do something very similar. Drill a pick up hole just below where the baffle plate rod sits so it's higher than the sump pick up. That way the electric pump will never be able to drain sump (although oil in head will get to mains and big ends with back-flow/drain
That's what I was wondering
If it's not drawing away from oil pick up
And has its own cooler / filter and your adding oil with the volume of filter and cooler calculated
Really it's just to have no  dry starts but also cooling good oil and filtering it should help and keeping the baths full
It's more or less an independent line bringing oil to the head gravity will bring it back down



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: crazypj on Jul 30, 2017, 14:48:41
Yep, the problem 30+ yrs ago, there were not the choices available for miniature oil pumps or high efficiency electric motors. I looked at the filtration system as well, you cannot get better than centrifugal, any filter medium will always allow some particulate through.
A centrifuge forces any heavy particles to outside of filter bowl (OK, osmosis is a different matter but we are not trying to remove various elements from oil, just 'bits')
 I have an oil filter article saved somewhere (found it a couple of days ago then 'lost' it again  ::) )
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 30, 2017, 16:16:30
Yep, the problem 30+ yrs ago, there were not the choices available for miniature oil pumps or high efficiency electric motors. I looked at the filtration system as well, you cannot get better than centrifugal, any filter medium will always allow some particulate through.
A centrifuge forces any heavy particles to outside of filter bowl (OK, osmosis is a different matter but we are not trying to remove various elements from oil, just 'bits')
 I have an oil filter article saved somewhere (found it a couple of days ago then 'lost' it again  ::) )
That brings you back to the original system though
How dirty do you think the oil would be ??
If not as clean as oil coming from centrifugal then cooling oil is the only think rationally to make it better
For that I'm pretty sure you could tap and drill the right side case where there seems to be plugs all ready
And just run to cooler
And back to case


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: crazypj on Jul 30, 2017, 16:47:47
Just posted some new 'Public Information Service' with oil filter pdf. and Honda Common Service manual pdf, you may wa't to read first and download second.
As for the clutch cover mod, that's what people are now doing.
If Photobucket sees sense and gives everyone their pictures back you'll find the info
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 30, 2017, 17:46:30
Just posted some new 'Public Information Service' with oil filter pdf. and Honda Common Service manual pdf, you may wa't to read first and download second.
As for the clutch cover mod, that's what people are now doing.
If Photobucket sees sense and gives everyone their pictures back you'll find the info
I have never seen a cb360 run
Which is why I have trouble visualizing the oil flow (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170730/b2aac601a4b7002d6302130f10f92324.jpg)



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 30, 2017, 17:53:10
I have never seen a cb360 run
Which is why I have trouble visualizing the oil flow (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170730/b2aac601a4b7002d6302130f10f92324.jpg)



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 30, 2017, 18:15:40
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170730/93c261f5df1dc5e41633b6dddc7d1a34.jpg)



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So if i can't tap into top cause I don't want to take any oil from oil to head path
If I use the starter delete plug feed to micro pump and cooler and feed back into  the bottom of case into path for centrifugal  fresh cooled oil
I'm using exsisting oil filtering and just adding a path to cool and re introduce


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 30, 2017, 18:26:45
So if i can't tap into top cause I don't want to take any oil from oil to head path
If I use the starter delete plug feed to micro pump and cooler and feed back into  the bottom of case into path for centrifugal  fresh cooled oil
I'm using exsisting oil filtering and just adding a path to cool and re introduce


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 30, 2017, 18:32:10
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170730/25fb702424f7db24d21b8f4cc4a9ff28.jpg)



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The best I can come up with
Because of the other mods like clutch cover the heads seem to last longer
And the slinger style filtering seems to be sufficient So that's why I think introducing a cooler would only benefit even further and be the most rational course without extreme modifications
I don't want to take away from the system just improve upon it
 


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: crazypj on Jul 30, 2017, 19:12:36
That's the 'outlet' better to remove inlet plug underneath cover and use small bore pipe to restrict flow. I got hold of some 1/8" copper pipe, probably 1/16" bore. It should restrict flow when oil is cold but allow a decent amount to cam when oil is hot and pressure is higher at 'elevated' rpm plus relieve some of the pressure on transfer piece. I've got a drilled cam plus oil feed into right side of rocker cover, going to do things slightly different next time though. Your system will work as long as starter is fully sealed. I'm not sure if body is rolled from sheet but not welded? Will probably add around 1/2~3/4 pint extra oil. Originally I was going to make a Cappellini style cooler to fit in place of starter with anti-drain back valve on 'intake' side
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 30, 2017, 19:26:19
That's the 'outlet' better to remove inlet plug underneath cover and use small bore pipe to restrict flow. I got hold of some 1/8" copper pipe, probably 1/16" bore. It should restrict flow when oil is cold but allow a decent amount to cam when oil is hot and pressure is higher at 'elevated' rpm plus relieve some of the pressure on transfer piece. I've got a drilled cam plus oil feed into right side of rocker cover, going to do things slightly different next time though. Your system will work as long as starter is fully sealed. I'm not sure if body is rolled from sheet but not welded? Will probably add around 1/2~3/4 pint extra oil. Originally I was going to make a Cappellini style cooler to fit in place of starter with anti-drain back valve on 'intake' side
I was liking the capalini too
Yes I think an anti drain back is necessary in my system
I planned on 1/8 copper lines as well in my system I won't have any complex bends and copper will help cool as well
 I would like to gun drill cam and do the center bearing hole
But where would I get clean oil from to feed into ??
What if I just  ran a small line from top oil passage on right case to the cam for feed use 1/8 inch copper
There should be enough pressure to feed cam


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: crazypj on Jul 30, 2017, 21:36:59
You won't need much pressure if cam is gun drilled and 'outlets' are on base circle. As the end of rocker box has a small capacity, it will soon fill to a high enough level to run through cam and be centrifuged onto bearing surfaces and rocker pads. I recently did a cam for jlama for his 378cc conversion, sending it back tomorrow
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 30, 2017, 23:12:00
You won't need much pressure if cam is gun drilled and 'outlets' are on base circle. As the end of rocker box has a small capacity, it will soon fill to a high enough level to run through cam and be centrifuged onto bearing surfaces and rocker pads. I recently did a cam for jlama for his 378cc conversion, sending it back tomorrow
Sweet To know I had planned out everything then lost hope with the cam drilling and top end oil mods
I do plan to make the system I drew up
Not sure if I want to delay my build doing so because I know it will be ok without and I can then work out the system  on a running bike 

So if I had just a gun drilled cam

The cam itself would pick up oil from the lobe side if I had that extra feed keeping the tubs full ??




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Title: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Jul 31, 2017, 18:44:22
Sweet To know I had planned out everything then lost hope with the cam drilling and top end oil mods
I do plan to make the system I drew up
Not sure if I want to delay my build doing so because I know it will be ok without and I can then work out the system  on a running bike 

So if I had just a gun drilled cam

The cam itself would pick up oil from the lobe side if I had that extra feed keeping the tubs full ??




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I think I get it visually

Right nowi think  I'm having issues driving in the new valve guides
I bought the hand driver
And I was not able to comfortable hit them in all the way right now there about 2/3 or more
I just don't feel confident in hitting them harder I did prep' the guides and hole followed all the proper technics
I didn't have much luck with the hand driver
I think I'm going to get the air hammer one
I know lowest setting speed all that
I' may just be too paranoid because of the time invested in the head




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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: teazer on Aug 01, 2017, 01:20:11
Valve guides should be pressed in with cold guides and a heated head if at all possible.
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 01, 2017, 05:14:02
Valve guides should be pressed in with cold guides and a heated head if at all possible.
Yeah
I did that froze plugs and heated each  hole
I have them in it's very close
Iiterally need to go down about 1/4" to the the cir-clip
I didn't have to swing too hard
I'm prolly just worried too much
Hand driving I'll get em'




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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: crazypj on Aug 01, 2017, 18:44:44
We didn't teach it but hand driving with hammer, use 4lb 'drilling' (or 'club' ) hammer.
One big hit works better than a lot of little taps and stops guide absorbing as much heat. You do need the 'tube' part that fit over driver to prevent guide going too far, the stock cast guides will fracture perfectly around the circlip groove if inserted too deep( seen it happen on brand new bike, came from factory with 'extra short two piece guides )
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 01, 2017, 19:20:33
We didn't teach it but hand driving with hammer, use 4lb 'drilling' (or 'club' ) hammer.
One big hit works better than a lot of little taps and stops guide absorbing as much heat. You do need the 'tube' part that fit over driver to prevent guide going too far, the stock cast guides will fracture perfectly around the circlip groove if inserted too deep( seen it happen on brand new bike, came from factory with 'extra short two piece guides )
I was able to get em in just did a couple hard hits each
I was just being a puss and over worried
I have bronze guides though too



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: crazypj on Aug 01, 2017, 20:54:21
Bronze guides are 'better' as they won't crack but will probably 'shrink' so need reaming after fitting. Valve seats WILL need to be re-cut. I use 45, 70, 30 for three angles (mainly because they are the cutters I have  ;D )
Title: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 01, 2017, 21:06:53
Bronze guides are 'better' as they won't crack but will probably 'shrink' so need reaming after fitting. Valve seats WILL need to be re-cut. I use 45, 70, 30 for three angles (mainly because they are the cutters I have  ;D )
I'm going to have seats re-cut same place as my cylinder bores
We just don't have the tooling at the shop I do have a 7mm reamer (.270 )
I think is the size


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Reamers are not expensive but
The boring head I wanted and the cutters for valves are
but my boss wouldn't let me get unless I could show more than one use for it
He almost bought the boring head though cause we could have used a more rigid style than the two we have
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 01, 2017, 21:57:53
I'm going to have seats re-cut same place as my cylinder bores
We just don't have the tooling at the shop I do have a 7mm reamer (.270 )
I think is the size


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Reamers are not expensive but
The boring head I wanted and the cutters for valves are
but my boss wouldn't let me get unless I could show more than one use for it
He almost bought the boring head though cause we could have used a more rigid style than the two we have
.270 is 5 and a half thou off from 7mm.
Title: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 01, 2017, 23:51:19
.270 is 5 and a half thou off from 7mm.
yes thankyou

If I recall my guide hole was .274
before driving into head
Now they are at .273
I'm using pin gauges .274 won't go
.273 goes
I have to ream holes anyways
if I don't have correct reamer size
We have tooling fastener supply next door so I can get same day
But I want to wait till new valves come so I can measure for sure
How close tolerance overall am I looking at trying to achieve ??
I'll have to go back to my service manual



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Finally got my forks
K6cb450 33mm
Wow they are so much beefier than stock 31mm (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170802/c0cd5f12a80cb9f534e6ab93b06780e3.jpg)
Had to grind down the steering lock
To fit the bottom triple and need a few wheel spacers but it looks so much better
I feel much better
And I have cl fork lowers so I can retain the drums up front too
Which I know people would advise disk are better yes
But I want the look to stay with the drums and scrambler high pipes
Mine was a cl360

Title: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 02, 2017, 00:37:28
yes thankyou

If I recall my guide hole was .274
before driving into head
Now they are at .273
I'm using pin gauges .274 won't go
.273 goes
I have to ream holes anyways
if I don't have correct reamer size
We have tooling fastener supply next door so I can get same day
But I want to wait till new valves come so I can measure for sure
How close tolerance overall am I looking at trying to achieve ??
I'll have to go back to my service manual



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Finally got my forks
K6cb450 35mm
Wow they are so much beefier than stock 33mm (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170802/c0cd5f12a80cb9f534e6ab93b06780e3.jpg)
Had to grind down the steering lock
To fit the bottom triple and need a few wheel spacers but it looks so much better
I feel much better
And I have cl fork lowers so I can retain the drums up front too
Which I know people would advise disk are better yes
But I want the look to stay with the drums and scrambler high pipes
Mine was a cl360
I do think I'll go clubman bars
I'm not sure about clip ons for this because the tank comes pretty close for clips


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 12, 2017, 08:32:46
I do think I'll go clubman bars
I'm not sure about clip ons for this because the tank comes pretty close for clips


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Maybe another layer of cloth the strengthen but the shape and look I wanted is there
Will be going with clip ons
I just can't get past how top heavy clubman bars make the front look tall



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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 19, 2017, 20:52:00
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170819/52b5eade1f10ac9124fb42c8fef520bc.jpg) couple more shots of cowl
Progress
underside was reinforced with wood
Need to add aanother layer underside (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170819/d14c16162206e6a706d794adb2d66813.jpg) getting seat cowl ready for dzus fasteners
Quarter turn self ejecting
And the hinge on front




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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 23, 2017, 11:36:13
Well after months of working
And seeing tons of projects get completed
I'm at the fork in the road with my build in 2 weeks when jugs come back from service
I'll be ready to put Engine back together
I have all the stock parts to get it running (old reg/Rec,coils wiring
Carbs are in process thx to pj

Frame is 90% need to do the dzus fasteners and slot for tail light
And the placement routing of electronics and such
 
So I've decided to get it running and tuned first
get it road worthy next new cables  tires brakes ect.
Then start the cosmetics like final paint and the bolt on upgrades
I have all the fab work done it's all primed to protect from rust
I wanna ride it
I can make it look pretty after I know it's functional ya know
Do the ton
Then make it look good doing it




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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: J-Rod10 on Aug 23, 2017, 12:58:21
Always paint last.

I've made that mistake once. Won't do it again.
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: 1fasgsxr on Aug 23, 2017, 13:08:23
Good plan
Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: onefromexile on Aug 23, 2017, 14:11:08
Not sure if I posted this interesting fact yet
All my metal used on frame for the venting panel and seat pan
We're made from various stainless coffee machine parts from the Dunkin' Donuts my wife works at
The cafe term literally used
Coffee machine parts lol


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Title: Re: First build ever
Post by: CrabsAndCylinders on Aug 23, 2017, 14:14:26
Not sure if I posted this interesting fact yet
All my metal used on frame for the venting panel and seat pan
We're made from various stainless coffee machine parts from the Dunkin' Donuts my wife works at
The cafe term literally used
Coffee machine parts lol


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Now that is cool!