collapse

www.dimecitycycles.com

www.cognitomoto.com

https://www.townmoto.com/collections/vanson-leathers

www.speedmotoco.com

www.CITYLIMITMOTO.com

www.jadusmotorcycleparts.com

www.lostapostlejewelry.com

www.sparckmoto.com

www.pistonsociety.com


Author Topic: Why Does My Honda CL200 Only Run With Very Advanced Timing?  (Read 1907 times)

Offline advCo

  • DTT BOTM WINNER
  • *
  • Posts: 3153
  • Nick Ol' Eye
    • adventur Studios
Re: Why Does My Honda CL200 Only Run With Very Advanced Timing?
« Reply #10 on: Oct 22, 2018, 18:04:20 »
Got a new "snappy" spark advance mechanism

Ignoring the compression for the moment - 115 psi on both cylinders should be enough for it to run until the rings bed in - is this a "new" aftermarket or new used advance mechanism? Is it installed correctly? The cam lobe can be installed 180 degrees out and really screw things up.

Offline Classic5

  • Posts: 34
Re: Why Does My Honda CL200 Only Run With Very Advanced Timing?
« Reply #11 on: Oct 22, 2018, 18:42:05 »
Hey advCo,

This was a new OEM advance mechanism that appeared to have never been installed before.

As far as the cam lobe being 180° out of sync, I'm fairly confident that I installed the cam shaft correctly according to the manual. Placing the "spark advancer knock pin facing upward" and having the lines on the cam sprocket in line with the head while keeping the crankshaft aligned with with the "T" mark. I believe the advancer mechanism itself only has one slot for the pin to fit into which would make it impossible for that to get installed incorrectly.

Am I correct in thinking the "spark advancer knock pin" is the pin that makes the advancer mechanism spin on the very end of the camshaft? or is it a small flange further in towards the center that doesn't seem to operate anything?

Thanks!

Offline Sonreir

  • Moderator
  • DTT SUPPORTER
  • *
  • Posts: 11244
  • Oregon
Re: Why Does My Honda CL200 Only Run With Very Advanced Timing?
« Reply #12 on: Oct 22, 2018, 18:47:01 »
Only a single point with a dual tower coil on a CB200 (it's a 360° engine and not 180° engine), so the advancer can't ever be 180° out.
Sparck Moto - http://www.sparckmoto.com

Audaces fortuna iuvat.

1977 Honda CJ360 - Café SOS - Stage One™, Café SOS - Stage Two™
1976 Puch Maxi - APuchalypse Now
Suzi T500 Cobra Resto

Custom Gauge Graphics
Custom Wiring Harnesses

DTT Red, White, and/or Black 360 Club - Better than those Blue guys

Offline Classic5

  • Posts: 34
Re: Why Does My Honda CL200 Only Run With Very Advanced Timing?
« Reply #13 on: Oct 26, 2018, 12:03:08 »
Hey All,

So after reading the post by AdvCo about how 115psi should be enough to get it running, I decided to look elsewhere for issues that might be causing my problems. I eventually found that the right side carb (although properly set to the spec. float height) was not letting gas into the bowl! I still can't figure out why, but I think the floats are resting on the bottom or sides of the bowl or something and closing off the gas intake. I realize this makes it sound like it's actually NOT properly set, but I was very diligent in setting them and the left side carb is exactly the same and runs pretty well. I took off the carb and soaked it in carb dip for a few hours, blew carb cleaner and compressed air through all the holes and made sure it was clean and got no change in performance until I raised the float level(made it so that the gas level in the bowl would be higher) and then the right cylinder engaged but poorly. I've tried raising and lowering the level to try and improve the performance, but didn't have great results.

This makes me think that either the float is messed up/ not the right one for the carb OR the carb is not actually the right one for the CL200? The float does not look abused or bent in a way that would cause this. I'm planning on swapping the components in the carbs tonight to see if the symptoms switch with it, but wanted to update you all on where I'm at with this. Do you have any advice?

Also, I currently have a synthetic oil in the engine. Should I switch to a conventional oil for seating the rings?

Thanks again for all of your help. I really appreciate you guys sharing your years of knowledge with a rookie like me.

Offline Sonreir

  • Moderator
  • DTT SUPPORTER
  • *
  • Posts: 11244
  • Oregon
Re: Why Does My Honda CL200 Only Run With Very Advanced Timing?
« Reply #14 on: Oct 26, 2018, 12:06:39 »
We all start somewhere.

Sparck Moto - http://www.sparckmoto.com

Audaces fortuna iuvat.

1977 Honda CJ360 - Café SOS - Stage One™, Café SOS - Stage Two™
1976 Puch Maxi - APuchalypse Now
Suzi T500 Cobra Resto

Custom Gauge Graphics
Custom Wiring Harnesses

DTT Red, White, and/or Black 360 Club - Better than those Blue guys

Offline advCo

  • DTT BOTM WINNER
  • *
  • Posts: 3153
  • Nick Ol' Eye
    • adventur Studios
Re: Why Does My Honda CL200 Only Run With Very Advanced Timing?
« Reply #15 on: Oct 26, 2018, 12:08:32 »
Take the offending float out and place it in a cup of water or fuel and make sure it is buoyant. Leave it there for 24 hours or so just to be sure. If it sinks at all you will probably want to replace it.

Make sure that your float needle is not binding in the seat. If there is a noticeable depression in the pointed section at the bottom, it could be causing it to bind up.

Edit: Its unlikely, but there could be some constriction in the petcock. Attach some fuel hoses to the 2 barbs on the tank and turn the fuel on (with a fairly full tank). Make sure that there's enough fuel coming out of both sides. If not, there could be some crap in the screen or in the tank blocking good flow to the carbs.
Regarding the oil, you definitely don't want to run synthetic with a wet clutch. It will slip. I like to run Rotella 15-40w but any motorcycle oil should be pretty sufficient (don't use regular car oil).

Offline jpmobius

  • DTT BOTM WINNER
  • *
  • Posts: 1229
  • where does this go?
Re: Why Does My Honda CL200 Only Run With Very Advanced Timing?
« Reply #16 on: Oct 26, 2018, 13:14:10 »
When you check the petcock, if you only get fuel from one outlet, close it off with your finger and see if it makes fuel come out of the other.  If it does, the petcock is fine.  Often petcocks will only free flow fuel from one outlet at a time.  Not too sure why this is, but don't worry about it.  Also, if you have clear fuel lines, don't worry if there is a lot of air in them.  As long as there is fuel always above the inlet to the carb, all is well.  Very unlikely the petcock is your issue - either the problem is obvious, or the bike runs lean temporarily if you run it hard due to insufficient fuel flow.   I am also a big promoter of Shell Rotel oil.
Mobius


On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

1973 RD350 Yamaha build  http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=66498.0

Offline pidjones

  • Posts: 891
Re: Why Does My Honda CL200 Only Run With Very Advanced Timing?
« Reply #17 on: Oct 27, 2018, 00:09:58 »
And, Rotella T6 is full synthetic without the friction modifiers that cause wet clutch slipage, and safe to use in motorcycles. Another thing to check on the carb is that the float valves (and seats) are identical. Setting float height by gravity requires that you turn the carb such that the float tang just closes the valve without depressing any plungers on the valve. The float should be full free to move. After replacing the bowl you should be able to hear the float moving as you tilt the carb.
"Love 'em all.... Let God sort 'em out!"

Offline Classic5

  • Posts: 34
Re: Why Does My Honda CL200 Only Run With Very Advanced Timing?
« Reply #18 on: Oct 29, 2018, 11:14:45 »
Hey All,

Checking back in after the weekend of tinkering. I swapped the floats and bowls on the bike and suddenly it started running! I'm convinced that nothing gives your brain endorphins like a motorcycle kicking to life.

There are still some issues that I have to work out though, as the right side continues to have difficulty idling as smoothly or consistently as the left side. Also, I'm having a strange issue when driving it too, where it'll start to bog down and eventually die after a short while of consistent medium speed (40mph-ish, I haven't tried going any faster yet). I'll let the bike sit for 30 seconds and then I can start it back up again and drive for a little while further before the issue happens again. I'm assuming this is being caused by the carbs not being able to keep up with the fuel demands but would love to hear your takes on it!

After running it around the neighborhood a little bit, I re-set the cam-chain tensioner, adjusted the valves(0.05mm), set the timing, and took off the offending carb, soaked in cleaner for 6 hours, sprayed carb cleaner through the passageways, shot compressed air through it again and used a Q-Tip with some toothpaste in a drill to polish the inside of the float seat to make sure that the valve isn't sticking. If I soak that carb any longer, it'll just dissolve completely. I'm convinced the passageways are clean.

I'm thinking it's still an issue with the float, gas level, and valve that I need to figure out as the fuel flows freely through both sides of the petcock and through the fuel filters and lines without issue. Thank you again for your help!

Offline advCo

  • DTT BOTM WINNER
  • *
  • Posts: 3153
  • Nick Ol' Eye
    • adventur Studios
Re: Why Does My Honda CL200 Only Run With Very Advanced Timing?
« Reply #19 on: Oct 29, 2018, 11:39:07 »
Hey All,

Checking back in after the weekend of tinkering. I swapped the floats and bowls on the bike and suddenly it started running! I'm convinced that nothing gives your brain endorphins like a motorcycle kicking to life.

There are still some issues that I have to work out though, as the right side continues to have difficulty idling as smoothly or consistently as the left side. Also, I'm having a strange issue when driving it too, where it'll start to bog down and eventually die after a short while of consistent medium speed (40mph-ish, I haven't tried going any faster yet). I'll let the bike sit for 30 seconds and then I can start it back up again and drive for a little while further before the issue happens again. I'm assuming this is being caused by the carbs not being able to keep up with the fuel demands but would love to hear your takes on it!

After running it around the neighborhood a little bit, I re-set the cam-chain tensioner, adjusted the valves(0.05mm), set the timing, and took off the offending carb, soaked in cleaner for 6 hours, sprayed carb cleaner through the passageways, shot compressed air through it again and used a Q-Tip with some toothpaste in a drill to polish the inside of the float seat to make sure that the valve isn't sticking. If I soak that carb any longer, it'll just dissolve completely. I'm convinced the passageways are clean.

I'm thinking it's still an issue with the float, gas level, and valve that I need to figure out as the fuel flows freely through both sides of the petcock and through the fuel filters and lines without issue. Thank you again for your help!

Did you test the floats making sure they are 100% buoyant like I said in an earlier post?

Regarding the stalling, I'm willing to bet its either your gas cap not venting correctly or coil breaking down while hot, then being ok when its cooled down a bit. I'd check the gas cap vent first. An easy way to test it is to keep the fuel tank popped open, take your normal ride and then see if it stalls when it normally would. If not, then you know thats your issue and you can try blowing/cleaning it out.