Recommendation for a welder

So I'm registered for a quick 6 hour intro to MIG welding class at a local college. Haven't touched a welder before.


There's also someone local offering beginner lessons in TIG, but the 'classes' are in his unheated garage and are the same price or more than the class at the college. TIG equipment is a lot more expensive than MIG, and I figure I have a better chance at actually getting something done in MIG as a beginner.


So anyhow - looking to invest some money in a MIG setup. I have 220v in the garage, on a 30A circuit.


Any suggestions on how big of a MIG welder to buy? I've been looking at things like the Lincoln Mig Pak 180, which goes on sale here from time to time for around $450.


I don't want to buy something that I'll be frustrated with a year from now and want to replace. Would rather just get something that is capable of welding on all the brackets I want onto motorcycle frames and adding some bracing to my little utility trailer.


Thoughts?

Get the biggest one possible. 220. Or higher if you can get the power, 110 is too small. Get gas mig, flux core is mess and you won't like it. It's easier to do aluminum with tig, lots of aluminum on bikes, consider more like $1000

Like I say, I've got 220v so will definitely buy a 220v welder. Just wondering how many amps I need from the welder. Is the Mig Pak 180 overkill for the typical type of welding I might do (less than 1/4" thick material I would think for the most part).

Tim said:

So I'm registered for a quick 6 hour intro to MIG welding class at a local college. Haven't touched a welder before.


There's also someone local offering beginner lessons in TIG, but the 'classes' are in his unheated garage and are the same price or more than the class at the college. TIG equipment is a lot more expensive than MIG, and I figure I have a better chance at actually getting something done in MIG as a beginner.


So anyhow - looking to invest some money in a MIG setup. I have 220v in the garage, on a 30A circuit.


Any suggestions on how big of a MIG welder to buy? I've been looking at things like the Lincoln Mig Pak 180, which goes on sale here from time to time for around $450.


I don't want to buy something that I'll be frustrated with a year from now and want to replace. Would rather just get something that is capable of welding on all the brackets I want onto motorcycle frames and adding some bracing to my little utility trailer.


Thoughts?

Click to expand...

Tim, I picked up this unit from Princess Auto with a TIG accessory http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8261877/120v/90A-Arc/TIG-Inverter-Welder
I get my Argon from TSC stores and a friend of mine borrowed my unit to have a professional welder come to his house to weld up an XS650 project for him, and the pro-welder went out and bought the same set up for his cottage that weekend because he was so impressed. It technically requires a 20A 115V circuit but I have used it to weld frames on a 15A circuit without tripping the breaker several times since I got it. If you ever learned how to braze weld in highschool you can easily learn how to TIG. The difference is that the source of the heat is the electrical arc instead of the oxy/acet flame.

Princess sells everything necessary, filler rods in SS or Steel, regulators, TIG electrodes, you won't be sorry and the welds are much nicer and require less cleanup once you get proficient. The only thing I find different from MIG is TIG requires more prep work to clean the joint.

The TIG accessory is sold separately and includes the regulator and torch head. Miller or Lincoln accessories will fit the torch head as well.

Never learned how to weld at all. We did have a shop class in school, and I worked on a bandsaw, various table sanders, even a plastic injection molding machine, but for some reason, we never got to weld. Some small engine work too.

So would learning MIG (I'm signed up for a 6 hour session at Centennial College in early Feb) be useful as a start? I don't mind jumping right into TIG with a kit like that from PA, if it's good enough for up to 1/4 material but I do have 220v if it's better.

That unit will weld 1/4" no problem you will need the 20A breaker though because the 15A breaker will trip soon after you start. We did some small 1/4" welds on a 15A breaker but had to do it in short burst about an 1" to 1 1/2" long at a time. MIG lessons will get you used to working with electrical arc welding, the processes are very different but the striking the arc creates the same body reaction of surprise, you will get over it once you get used to it.

I have tried both processes but like TIG for it's accuracy, I am no expert but some of my welds look good with good penatration. Either process takes time to learn and each has its tricks, and you only get better by practicing. There is alot to learn to weld well. Things like how to weld SS and steel to eachother and separately.

Oh you will need a separate diamond grinding wheel for a dremel type tool to use specifically to repoint the tungsten electrodes, I picked up a wheel from PA for $3.00 works perfectly... you will learn that the secret to strong TIG welds is prep, cleaning, and prevention from contamination. I learned what I know, which is very little, from a Gas Pipe TIG welder. His welds look automated and I have never had to grind or file any before I send stuff to powdercoating.

i weld for a living tim and ive built alot if bikes, seats, tanks with my 110 gas miller. the bigger the machine the thicker the metal it will weld but that goes both ways big machines dont play well with thinner metal. i would wash off all the advice hear and go to a local welding supply store and tell the salesmen exactly what you want to do and let the salesman explain the differences and the price jumps in the machines. at home ive never ran in to anything on a bike/trailer i couldnt weld with a 110 gas mig. if i was to get a ac/dc tig it will have its own 220line but i more than happy with my 110 machine. to all the other post im not tring to be a dick but a salesman is paid to know his product and how to match a product with a customer needs. good luck

All advise is just that, someone elses viewpoint. The only way to know what you want or need is by experimenting, that said, Tim I am just north of TO and would be more than happy to have you stop by on a weekend to try your hand at my set up. Then you know what it's like or capable of and could compare it to MIG.

I agree with brad here, I have never run across anything my 110 mig wouldn't do.
Other than tig and that's another ball game

I'm really curious about this process too! Like you Tim, I've never welded a thing myself, but I'd love to learn and get started! 8)

I'm gonna be watching and listening here!! ;D

I bought a Century 90 amp 110V MIG with gas around 1998 or so to do some bodywork on a car, and still use it and have never had a problem with it. TIG would be better for aluminum and gas tanks (less porous weld), and I'll likely get one sometime, but the MIG is great for most work. No class needed; just a few hours practice on some scrap and you should be set for brackets and tabs.

A seat:


Frame mods on my SR500:

Any thoughts on the Decastar 180E? Someone is selling one locally for $250. Good for gas or fluxcore. 220v. Near as I can tell it needs a 16amp 220v circuit to run? That's no problem if I'm reading it right. Think these are the specs:

1 Ph x 230 Fuse (Amp): 16
Installation Power (Kw): 2,5 @ 60%
Open circuit voltage (Volt): 34
Welding current range: 30 - 160
Duty Cycle (%): (130 @ 20%) - (100 @ 35%)
Welding positions (N°): 6
Wire Suitable Spool: Ø mm 100 - 200 (standard)
Steel wire (Ø mm): 0,6 - 0,8
Stainless steel wire (Ø mm): 0,8
Aluminium wire (Ø mm): 0,8 - 1,0
Self shielded wire (mild teel) (Ø mm): 0,9

http://www.decaweld.com/default.asp?cmd=getProd&cmdID=18837&l=2

Stick with your staples. I like miller but have been using a Lincoln MP350 at work and have been pretty impressed with it. At home I have Lincoln welders only cuz they are more affordable. My mig is a SP175T (230v approx 36A Draw, so 40A breaker) and would be similar to the migpak 180. Trevor has the migpak 180? and it works well for the same things you are looking to do with it. they have charts on the inside cover and they are generally pretty close for beginners to go by. It will do aluminum (with argon, alumshield,etc). Aluminum works better with a spool gun attachment ($199-299)
I've seen a lot of those Decas returned to PAuto. They just look cheap.

As for tig, it is a harder process. A lot of people think cuz they joined two pieces of metal together it's a good or "strong" weld. There is no chart on a tig machine, just knowledge and experience. Knowing what tungsten to use when, what size tungsten, amperage setting for material thickness being used, what gas to use, etc...
The machines are more expensive, so I would get the experience and knowledge before making the investment. At home I have a Lincoln square wave 175 (230v approx 76A draw, so 100A breaker) with optional pulser unit. At work I use a Milller Dynasty 350 and a Lincoln Precision TIG 275. The miller hands down is the better welder. Newer technology,less powerdraw, programable, 4 different A/C waves, etc...
I have used an offshore inverter tig machine and it did weld very well, but definitly had it's bugs and quality issues. It was affordable for home, but you get what you pay for and if you don't have the knowledge or experience to work around inconsistencies I would buy a known and proven name welder.

Maybe if there is enough interest, I can host a small group either here in London or Toronto for a beginners weld introduction.

Everyone has to start somewhere, but know your limits. Welding your hardtail on with no experience with your shitty 110v princess auto/ harbor freight fluxcore welder is probably not a good idea. It may hold together, but those shitty cold, porious welds are taking all the load from the road that the suspension used to. Be smart as you might not just kill yourself.

I've always been the first guy to tell people take their critical welding to a professional All my welding thus far has been done in a full on welding shop specializing in TIG on various materials.

Really I'm venturing into this for personal interest. Just something I've always wanted to do.

I have a 30A 220v breaker out on my panel in the garage. The Lincoln Mig Pak 180 recommends a 40A breaker, but it says it draws 20. I think I'd likely be OK for the limited use I'd put it through. Not going to be welding solid for hours on end.

Only reason I'm mentioning the Lincoln Mig Pak 180 is there are some for sale locally and it goes on sale at Canadian Tire for about $430 from time to time vs $700 at most places.

Otherwise I'm looking for any specific recommended Miller or Lincoln models that people think would suit me. I'm open to 110v - but I do have the 220 sitting there. I use it to run a construction heater in the winter months when I'm working out there which isn't often, so I don't mind swapping it out to welder duty. Warm up the garage and then do some welding, then warm it back up again

Just get the Mig pak 180. It will handle anything you will need to know. As I said, Trev picked up the same one and he was totally green to welding and he lays down some nice welds just by following the recommended chart on the inside. Lincoln warranty. Canadian Tire return policy. Parts to be got anywhere. For what you are looking for, that's it. Weld some metal. Feel free to pm a pic if you are unsure.

Good luck

And for your power, It only really matters when you are welding at highest setting that it will start overheating circuit and cause breaker to trip. When I first picked up my tig I plugged it into the same socket as my mig which was a 40A breaker. When I was doing some aluminum welding it would trip the breaker after a couple minutes as amp setting was higher and so the draw was higher. I'm now running a proper breaker.
So basically, if you start tripping the breaker, change it or spend the $25 and change it anyways.

reds said:

So basically, if you start tripping the breaker, change it or spend the $25 and change it anyways.

Click to expand...

I'm probably reading this wrong, but if you're suggesting swapping a higher amperage breaker into a circuit that keeps tripping, that's a bad idea. The circuit breaker is just there to protect the wiring, so installing a higher amp breaker into the circuit is liable to result in some burnt wiring.

CC

I can only really go up to the 30A in the garage. I had a line (have to double check the wiring gauge) pulled out to the building and it's running off a 40A breaker on my main panel in the house. I have a sub panel in the garage with 2 15A 120v circuits and the one 220v 30A breaker that I have been using for my little construction heater (just turned it on - heading into the garage soon).

Must be 8 gauge wire but need to confirm. One of the 15A circuits is for the hot tub and the other is for the garage lights and door opener and a couple outlets. So I can't sacrifice either of those. Haven't had a problem being in there in the winter with the heater running full blast, lights a blazing, hot tub heating and using basic power tools. But then again the heater isn't drawing much - it's a little 5kw heater.

CCRider said:

I'm probably reading this wrong, but if you're suggesting swapping a higher amperage breaker into a circuit that keeps tripping, that's a bad idea. The circuit breaker is just there to protect the wiring, so installing a higher amp breaker into the circuit is liable to result in some burnt wiring.

CC

Click to expand...

No. I didn't know what delivery he has to the garage. My garage has a 60 amp panel so i was assuming that if he has a panel in his garage he would have room to expand.

Tim- for 40a I believe 8guage to be right unless there was plans to expand. I ran heavy enough to run a 100 amps just to the shop if i up to 200A service as I may build another shop behind the one. Be aware of your draw. I turn off my heater 230v 4800w if I am doing some heavier welding