Recommendation for a welder

[Tim]

Oh I don't think i'd run both the heater and the welder - at least I more or less assumed I wouldn't. I was going to keep both outlets (I think the welder will need a different style outlet than my heater does) just for convenience, but didn't necessarily plan on running both at the same time.

Still considering 120v models based on feedback, but it will ultimately come down to what's available. I don't necessarily want to cheap out and buy PowerFist or whatever from Princess Auto, but I also don't want to plunk down $700 for the Lincoln 180 just yet. If Canadian Tire puts them on sale again I'll snap one up - $430 for the Mig Pak 180 seems too good a deal to pass on. Last time was in September so who knows, maybe I'll get lucky in the next few weeks.

 

[Drewski]

Interesting discussion...

 

[4eyes]

I'll throw in my two centavos.
I think you will love a 110v mig to start with. And ANY schooling is not wasted when it comes to fabricating. If you need something thicker or more critical welded than you feel comfortable with, you can still tack it in place and take it to a pro.
I would stick to Lincoln and Miller, I bought a Craftsman in the early 80's 110v with CO2/Argon mix, and it has done almost everything I have needed in that time frame. All the parts inside are Miller.
I have a gas welder that I have only used as a cutting torch, and have rented a plasma cutter a couple of times. (prices are getting much lower now). My next quest is to learn how to gas weld, then maybe later TIG. 8)

 

[4eyes]

Oh yeah, my welder is sensitive to the quality of AC. If I use a plug right next to the breaker box, it produces MUCH better welds than if plugged in to an outside plug at the other end of the house.

 

[CCRider]

Oh yeah, my welder is sensitive to the quality of AC. If I use a plug right next to the breaker box, it produces MUCH better welds than if plugged in to an outside plug at the other end of the house.

This has been my experience as well. Welds really get crappy if I have to use an extension cord.

CC

 

[reds]

Why buy twice? It just costs more in the long run. You are better to have more power than not enough. Those mig 180' s are always on sale. you can ask the people at CT when it is planned to go on sale next as they have all the dates in their computer system and the sale price. The cheap Scotsman in me knows how to shop and hates buying the same tool twice.

 

[cyclhed]

Tim, My advice is to go with a TIG from the beginning if you can afford it and run it on 220 with a 30 amp breaker. The inverter type machines do aluminum and any steel so you are covered with whatever you want to fabricate. If you can't, or choose not to do the TIG then get at least a 150 amp MIG and run it on 220 with the same 30A breaker. Stay away from the flux core wire and run argon shielding gas. With that setup you can weld up to 1/4" steel if you want. You will be much happier with the gas and 220 than 110 and/or flux wire. MIG is very easy to learn and you really don't need a class to learn it, just a welder and practice on scrap. TIG is more difficult to get the hang of, but it definitely more versatile and makes nicer looking welds. Check out this site for excellent online instruction on all processes. weldingtipsandtricks.com

 

[Tim]

Oh I'm definitely going with gas 100%, and will be popping into CT to check on the Lincoln 180 to see when they're going on sale next. I'm from Winnipeg, which is about on par with being Scottish in terms of hunting for deals

My 220 outlet is about 20 inches of wire away from the breakers. From the garage panel it is about a 70 foot run to the main panel in the house but that's 8 gauge wire in conduit.

 

[bluenose bomber]

Tim,as a retired electrician of 40 + years, consult the Canadian Electrical Code for welder installs. Everything you need to know. With respect to others opinions, the CEC has the latest and most accurate information. Also, your insurance company is the final arbiter of a "proper" install. have a fire and see how fast they will try and blame you. As well, have it at least checked if not done by a licensed electrician. BTW, a 220v panel 70 feet away needs at #2 at the least, to prevent any voltage drop and be able to handle the amperage draw. depending on number of circuits. And, use Tec cable instead of conduit.

 

[Tim]

The panel in the garage is already there and has been for years. It was installed by a licensed electrician who ran the conduit and conductor from the main panel in the house to my garage. The conduit is all above ground with the exception of about 6 feet running under a walkway.

Not meaning to contradict, but are you sure about the recommendation for 2 gauge conductor for a 240v 40A circuit 70 feet long? All the online calculators I've found suggest minimum of #10 for that distance and I'm pretty sure we ran #8 given I think it's required for a 40A circuit.

Kind of wishing we had run larger wire and individual conductors, but I didn't really know what to ask at the time and the wire was bloody expensive as it was. I have an unused dual 20A breaker sitting on my main panel as well - could have had more power out in the garage. But then the conduit on the side of my house would have been much larger as well I think.

Anyhow - plenty of power out there for little old me.

 

[Kanticoy]

I HIGHLY recommend Hobart welders. They are Miller's economy line. I have been using a Handler 140 for years now with zero issues. I have a 220 welder, and I hardly ever use it. I have welded everything from 3/8 plate down to 20g steel for sheet with it. It's all about learning the skill, I think I picked mine up for about $400. I can't see why you would ever need 220v MIG for anything bike related, it's just overkill. I have been welding for over 15 years and wouldn't try to steer you wrong. From trailer hitches to gas tank repairs, I have never had an issue.

 

[bluenose bomber]

Tim, what you have is fine unless you start adding circuits, ie a welder, various machines or other consumers to the same panel, then you may need an up-grade. I don't know how many circuits you have or are left. But today a sub-panel needs a #2 feed today for at least 10. This allows for any future usage increases up to 100 amp, pushing it then IMO, for a 240/115 set-up. Then you will go a 1/0 and a larger panel. Contact a licensed electrician for proper info as each province has different ways of doing installs. Also a licensed contractor will, should, be up on the newest changes to the CEC. I know this is wandering away from a welder selection, but electricity is nothing to fool with. In my years working with different trades, I have found people will do others trades work, with varying results, but generally, none mess with electricity.

 

[cyclhed]

reds is completely spot on here. And I respectfully disagree with running 110 and welding anything but sheet metal or exhaust. You can plug those small Lincoln/Hobart 135 - 155 amp MIG machines into either 110 or 220, so if you go with one of those, get the machine that has the option of using 220 and use that. Using 110 you won't have enough power to weld structural frame tubes. Why use 110 when you can use 220 and have the amperage to weld properly?

I now use a Miller Synchrowave 200, but I build this entire frame with my Lincoln 155 MIG and rode it hard for 6 years before selling it. I inspected it regularly and never had any issues. I have tried several of those cheap machines on 110 and they just don't get the penetration needed to weld even 120 wall tubing.

 

[Getnjgywitit]

Like you, I didn't know sh!t about welders nor do I claim to know anything now, but my nephew is a welder by trade. He gave me a Millermatic 140 Auto-Set welder. It's handled everything I've thrown at it and my nephew was able to do a lot of work with it as well. That being said, I haven't welded anything like frame tubes, or something that may kill me if that goes wrong only because I haven't needed to yet and I'm not confident in my ability or if the machine is designed to do something like this.

 

[kauai1800]

Aloha Tim,
Thought I'd jump in as I did just take a welding course last semester at the local community college. We learned gas, gas cutting, plasma cutting, stick, MIG and TIG. The class was less than $300 and for me it was a great way to try all the techniques and see what I liked most.

Here's what I learned:
Stop thinking in terms of just "welding" - think in terms of "fabricating" - what it is you plan to make? I'm sure you will move beyond brackets soon.
To make something, may need other tools like saws, grinders, benders, drill press, etc. Perhaps 75% of good welding is just good fitting and jigging and has nothing to do with Miller vs. Lincoln; MIG vs TIG. So my advice is make sure you have you have a budget for all that stuff besides the welder. Doesn't have to be fancy: you can get a lot done with just a angle grinder and some disks or even a file.
Another thing I learned: welding is *not* easy. Especially TIG. All those beautiful welds you see come only from practice. I hear people saying you can learn it in one day - well I disagree. You can make something that will either look welded or might even be a metal-metal bond, but it won't be a pretty weld bead...it'll look like shit. I think when you see the other students and how they are also making shitty welds even after 6 weeks of practice you'll understand my viewpoint. I'd say one needs to weld for 5-15 hours with any given technique before they start getting anything like "good" welds. 25+ hours before you are "good welder" at that technique. That's 5-10 days and lots of welding. It's not just a matter of laying down a bead on a butt joint. Welding pipe is much harder for example. Being consistent is hard too. Inside corners/upside down. Hats off to the guys who are real journeymen welders - that shit ain't easy!

In the end my choice was made for me: a mint 110V Lincoln Weldpak 3200 showed up on Craigslist for $300 and I bought it - very similar in specs to the Miller 140 mentioned above. The previous owner only used it for flux-core, but had all the stuff for gas, so it was a pretty good deal for where I live. I've used it to weld up to 3/8" plate down to 14 ga steel...works like a champ.
It's a fun skill though no doubt so enjoy your class.

 

[Kanticoy]

reds is completely spot on here. And I respectfully disagree with running 110 and welding anything but sheet metal or exhaust. You can plug those small Lincoln/Hobart 135 - 155 amp MIG machines into either 110 or 220, so if you go with one of those, get the machine that has the option of using 220 and use that. Using 110 you won't have enough power to weld structural frame tubes. Why use 110 when you can use 220 and have the amperage to weld properly?

I respectfully disagree. I weld 220 as well, but the 110s...the good ones...when run right do just fine. Gas mixture is important as well as heat and speed, but it is more than doable. This is a crosscut of 1/4" welded to 3/8 plate showing penetration using the Hobart 140. More than adequate. .120 wall is only 1/8", so it would penetrate even deeper, and this is standard frame tubing.

 

[canyoncarver]

This has been my experience as well. Welds really get crappy if I have to use an extension cord.

CC

Damn! And that is one of the reasons I'm here. I never would have thought of that.

Thank you Gents!

 

[Tim]

I have an opportunity to buy a new in the box Lincoln 180HD setup for $500 cash. They retail for $700 + tax so about $800 new. in the US at Home Depot they retail for $670 + tax.

So it seems like a decent deal to me. A little more than I'd wanted to spend, but in the long run it might be a decent investment. Only thing missing is a gas bottle.


This is a 220 kit, and I do have the circuit in my garage for it. I don't expect to need to move it around the house (my garage is the only place I'd ever expect to do any welding).

 

[4eyes]

I would jump on it.

 

[Tim]

Called them - hoping to buy it today.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk 2