Yo! A W30 442 is rare as hell, assuming that's not a clone. My old man built a '75 442. I have a soft spot for those cars.iatethepeach said:I parked next to this boss at the hardware store and had to get a photo.
New CL100 Owner
- Thread starter iatethepeach
- Start date
iatethepeach
Coast to Coast
grcamna5 said:
Thanks for posting the part number. I experienced the missing on my evening ride Saturday and again yesterday morning. If setting the timing with a strobe doesn't work, I'll get one of these with my next parts order.
deviant said:
It's not my style but it definitely raised the bar amid the new F150 and the like at the hardware store parking lot.
You might also check that the condenser is properly grounded to the frame(it mounts to the coil frame correct?)as that can cause points 'arcing' also;you would need to remove the coil for this and make sure the metal is shiny steel making good contact plus you can further inspect the coil for more leakage underneath.
iatethepeach
Coast to Coast
Yes, the condenser mounts on the coil. Together they're screwed to the top of the frame. The grounding surfaces looked good when I checked them yesterday, but I wire wheeled them shiny to be sure. Thanks, that was a good idea.
I also got my hands on a self-powered strobe and reset the timing. Unfortunately, however, this somehow took things in the wrong direction- the bike isn't running so well now. According to the strobe, as I had the timing set previously (with the bike running nicely), it was quite advanced. With the strobe I ended up retarding it further than the first time I set it last week. Operating the strobe seems simple enough that even I should have trouble messing it up (though I did get motor oil on my sneaker). Do I still line up the "F" mark on the rotor with the index notch on the crankcase cover, as I did with the static light? If not, I'll probably need a different strobe, since this one doesn't have an offset function.
I also got my hands on a self-powered strobe and reset the timing. Unfortunately, however, this somehow took things in the wrong direction- the bike isn't running so well now. According to the strobe, as I had the timing set previously (with the bike running nicely), it was quite advanced. With the strobe I ended up retarding it further than the first time I set it last week. Operating the strobe seems simple enough that even I should have trouble messing it up (though I did get motor oil on my sneaker). Do I still line up the "F" mark on the rotor with the index notch on the crankcase cover, as I did with the static light? If not, I'll probably need a different strobe, since this one doesn't have an offset function.
Yes,with the strobe it should idle right on the F mark and should advance to the two little lines when you give it steady throttle(for testing your advancer unit;have you ever removed and checked it out?) to about 3000 rpm's.I think it helps if you have a spare Left crankcase round cover made w/ a small sightglass in it so the oil doesn't come out.I've wanted to do that SO many times when checking the timing on my CB350 twin 
iatethepeach
Coast to Coast
I only checked the timing with the strobe at idle. The motor is weaker there as well as at higher RPM, so is the advancer mechanism likely to be the culprit? I had it out when I replaced the cam chain and put a little assembly lube on it, but I didn't know what to look for in terms of wear.
What else might explain rough running with the timing set dynamically? Could the hotter D9EA plug or setting the valve clearance to .003" instead of the shop manual's .002" be a problem?
Having a rotor cover with a sight glass would be great. Since I have two of these bikes to work on now, I'll try making a simple plexiglass cover for temporary use. It won't have a perfect seal but should at least keep my sneakers clean. If it works I'll make you one for the 350.
What else might explain rough running with the timing set dynamically? Could the hotter D9EA plug or setting the valve clearance to .003" instead of the shop manual's .002" be a problem?
Having a rotor cover with a sight glass would be great. Since I have two of these bikes to work on now, I'll try making a simple plexiglass cover for temporary use. It won't have a perfect seal but should at least keep my sneakers clean. If it works I'll make you one for the 350.
iatethepeach said:
peach(what's your real name?),
Have you replaced your points ? I would have to be there to see the way it's running the way you describe to know what's going on now.. but I think you may have been used to it running at a very advanced state of tune(that can cause damage over the long-haul) and now that it's 'settled-down' to 'F standard timing'
it may just seem slower?... tough to know just by 'computer definition' for me.. The advance mechanism needs to move freely where it pivots and the 2 springs need to have good,even tension on them so it returns back to 'F standard running' below 1500 rpm(or thereabouts..)plus the cam surface that slides on the points should be in good shape and not too worn out; as far as the other things you mentioned they wouldn't affect how it's running.What type of timing light(have a pic?)are you using & is it self-powered or depend on a 12vt. battery for it's power ?
oh,also Thanks for the offer of the timing window
custom alt. cover ! I sold the CB350 though and I'm running the XL/XR185 high performance engine in my 81' CB125S which has a little slotted plug at the top to check timing and oil doesn't come out much at all when i time it dynamically. Thanks again for the offer
iatethepeach
Coast to Coast
It's a self-powered light, branded "Prolite UM-1".
I did late last year (about 2000 miles ago). I'll probably get a new set when I place my next parts order. I may first swap the points out of the XL for a test.
I wouldn't be surprised. I'm going to try to live with it for a while to see if my expectations get in tune with F-standard.
After I set the timing with the strobe I turned up the idle and adjusted the mixture, which helped keep the engine from stalling. Besides feeling a little weak on my ride, the throttle response was noticeably sloppy, and the engine bogged and stuttered a bit. It stalled at a couple stops and I had a harder time starting it than usual.
Could the engine possibly run well advanced if the camshaft/crank alignment was off by a tooth? (I'm not going to experiment!) When I replaced the cam chain I marked the sprockets and old chain, then carefully transfered the marks to the new chain to maintain alignment. The bike ran the same afterward as before. Is there a more professional way of ensuring alignment, though, like a mark on the camshaft or checking the tappets? Maybe at some point the camshaft/crank became misaligned and I copied the misalignment, and advanced timing is making the motor run OK. When I bought the bike way back it was in a bit of a state (ill-fitting Chinese carb, improperly adjusted clutch, brakes, chain, etc.). Nothing is totally trustworthy.
I can imagine! Thanks for trying.
Ha, it's Al. That's from a movie.
grcamna5 said:
I did late last year (about 2000 miles ago). I'll probably get a new set when I place my next parts order. I may first swap the points out of the XL for a test.
grcamna5 said:I would have to be there to see the way it's running the way you describe to know what's going on now.. but I think you may have been used to it running at a very advanced state of tune(that can cause damage over the long-haul) and now that it's 'settled-down' to 'F standard timing'
I wouldn't be surprised. I'm going to try to live with it for a while to see if my expectations get in tune with F-standard.
After I set the timing with the strobe I turned up the idle and adjusted the mixture, which helped keep the engine from stalling. Besides feeling a little weak on my ride, the throttle response was noticeably sloppy, and the engine bogged and stuttered a bit. It stalled at a couple stops and I had a harder time starting it than usual.
Could the engine possibly run well advanced if the camshaft/crank alignment was off by a tooth? (I'm not going to experiment!) When I replaced the cam chain I marked the sprockets and old chain, then carefully transfered the marks to the new chain to maintain alignment. The bike ran the same afterward as before. Is there a more professional way of ensuring alignment, though, like a mark on the camshaft or checking the tappets? Maybe at some point the camshaft/crank became misaligned and I copied the misalignment, and advanced timing is making the motor run OK. When I bought the bike way back it was in a bit of a state (ill-fitting Chinese carb, improperly adjusted clutch, brakes, chain, etc.). Nothing is totally trustworthy.
grcamna5 said:
I can imagine! Thanks for trying.
grcamna5 said:
Ha, it's Al. That's from a movie.
Ok Al,
You should be good if you lined-up the small 'dot' on the timing sprocket at the 12noon/top position when you replaced the cam/timing chain and then set the alt. rotor at the TDC 'T' mark.
That looks like a good timing light.I like the idea of you installing a known good set of clean points(check your advancer & springs too)or rather a new set of oem quality points and go from there.What do the contact surfaces of your present set of points look like? burn't or pitted? Have you checked your pilot jet and see if that little tiny hole in it is clear and you can see light through it ? I mention about the carb./fuel supply because any older bike 'could' have dirty/a hint of rust in the fuel.. which will cause a bit of erratic running also.
You should be good if you lined-up the small 'dot' on the timing sprocket at the 12noon/top position when you replaced the cam/timing chain and then set the alt. rotor at the TDC 'T' mark.
That looks like a good timing light.I like the idea of you installing a known good set of clean points(check your advancer & springs too)or rather a new set of oem quality points and go from there.What do the contact surfaces of your present set of points look like? burn't or pitted? Have you checked your pilot jet and see if that little tiny hole in it is clear and you can see light through it ? I mention about the carb./fuel supply because any older bike 'could' have dirty/a hint of rust in the fuel.. which will cause a bit of erratic running also.
iatethepeach
Coast to Coast
grcamna5 said:
I didn't know about the dot-on-the-camshaft-sprocket trick, as obvious as it now seems- I just transferred the marks from the old to the new chain, so if it was misaligned before it's misaligned now. I realize it's improbable but I'll check to be sure.
Is the dot on the sprocket typically next to one of the bolt holes? I think I see it on the right side in this photo, which I took when I did the replacement.
I'll also take another crack at the points and carb. The XL and my gf have temporarily stolen the show, but I'll be back on the scrambler ASAP. It's interesting to hear you have a similar problem, JB77!
Make sure to service your advancer mechanism! first before setting the timing !
I see the tiny little circle timing mark next to the bolt hole,yes that's it.That mark should be at 12o'clock & touching the small notch in the head casting when your stator rotor is at the 'T' mark according to the service manual.What brand service book do you own ?
I see the tiny little circle timing mark next to the bolt hole,yes that's it.That mark should be at 12o'clock & touching the small notch in the head casting when your stator rotor is at the 'T' mark according to the service manual.What brand service book do you own ?
iatethepeach
Coast to Coast
Gotcha on the advancer mechanism. Thanks!
I have the Honda FSM. I may not have read it as thoroughly as I should. :|
I have the Honda FSM. I may not have read it as thoroughly as I should. :|
iatethepeach
Coast to Coast
Yesterday during a break in the XL excitement I found a few minutes to remove the CL's point base and advancer mechanism. The springs don't fully return the lobes when I open them by hand- that has to be an issue.
https://youtu.be/yHfmb7Dl6eU
For my own sanity I also verified camshaft alignment. The sprocket mark doesn't seem dead-on at TDC, but I imagine the camera must have been at a bit of an angle when I snapped the photos.
Also, for what it's worth, the play of the new points on their shaft on the CL seems to be about the same as that of the original points on the XL (at 2600 miles).
https://youtu.be/yHfmb7Dl6eU
For my own sanity I also verified camshaft alignment. The sprocket mark doesn't seem dead-on at TDC, but I imagine the camera must have been at a bit of an angle when I snapped the photos.
Also, for what it's worth, the play of the new points on their shaft on the CL seems to be about the same as that of the original points on the XL (at 2600 miles).
You may be able to find an NOS advance mech.(if your present one has play in the shaft where it mounts and turns..)online or better a new pr. of NOS advancer springs;you will need to tighten up the spring action either way for correct timing and advancing.I have adjusted the orig. springs on a few by carefully clipping-off a half coil and then carefully(with the least amount of force.. and then matching the tension evenly between the two)bending that coil to match-up to fit back into the weight and it has tightened it up well,when I couldn't find a pr. of new advance springs.They do loose their strength over the years from heat,etc. so new is best. Have a nice weekend Al.
The photos of the timing marks you posted look fine.
The photos of the timing marks you posted look fine.
iatethepeach
Coast to Coast
Thanks, grcamna5. I didn't come across a set of springs in my parts search, but I did find an NOS advancer for $25 shipped- not too bad. Hopefully it'll fix the CL's somewhat-erratic idle problem as well as its high-RPM stuttering, and I'll have parts left over for the XL if it needs them.
iatethepeach
Coast to Coast
JB77 said:
Hey JB. I found it on ebay (my favorite online casino): http://www.ebay.com/itm/161758555258 ; the part number discrepancy either means I got a good deal or I'm about to be burned.
