76 CB360, Cherry Bomb at Barber's
- Thread starter trek97
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Re: 76 CB360, before & after
My original head is like 2nd good head.
LOL, please dont tell me "those are the heads that are notorious for crappy plug threads and cracked valves."
2nd head, flat (the one Im using)
1st head, molded (going on Ebay, as soon as I get to fix leaky valve, this winter)
Never even noticed it! Will it govern which head cover I use? Or is there a difference other than that?frogman said:
My original head is like 2nd good head.
LOL, please dont tell me "those are the heads that are notorious for crappy plug threads and cracked valves."
2nd head, flat (the one Im using)
1st head, molded (going on Ebay, as soon as I get to fix leaky valve, this winter)
frogman
'74 CB360, '71 CB450, '75 CB550SS
Re: 76 CB360, before & after
Might sell second to Giant Robot.
The flat backed ones lend to being able to drill an oil passage to force oil to the center cam bearing. The molded ones I THINK are older I had threads strip out of one.
I drilled mine when I changed heads last winter, haven't had the need to pull it down and actually see if it does any good though. :-\
Might sell second to Giant Robot.
The flat backed ones lend to being able to drill an oil passage to force oil to the center cam bearing. The molded ones I THINK are older I had threads strip out of one.
I drilled mine when I changed heads last winter, haven't had the need to pull it down and actually see if it does any good though. :-\
Re: 76 CB360, before & after
PICS of your head work? Very interested. or can you photoshop some rough direction. Or link to your build.
I have been watching his progress. The thought has crossed my mind. But I need to hang on to it til Im definitely up and running w a few miles behind me. Before I can feel safe enough to let these gems go.frogman said:
PICS of your head work? Very interested. or can you photoshop some rough direction. Or link to your build.
Re: 76 CB360, before & after
thats awesome! and ballsy.
Ok, I spent 10 minutes sitting quietly thinking about all that. and I believe its really quite ingenious. the only thing that causes me any real concern is the JB weld. Im wondering if theres a way to lead that. I will try to talk w my metal buddy.
thats awesome! and ballsy.
Ok, I spent 10 minutes sitting quietly thinking about all that. and I believe its really quite ingenious. the only thing that causes me any real concern is the JB weld. Im wondering if theres a way to lead that. I will try to talk w my metal buddy.
Re: 76 CB360, before & after
Ok, I spent 10 minutes sitting quietly thinking about all that. and I believe its really quite ingenious. the only thing that causes me any real concern is the JB weld. Im wondering if theres a way to lead that. I will try to talk w my metal buddy.
And the set screw plug. only due to the fact its not a liquid tight thread design. Like a small pipe plug w tapered threads. only It might be hard to find one small enough. could get gooey under points cap.
Ok, I spent 10 minutes sitting quietly thinking about all that. and I believe its really quite ingenious. the only thing that causes me any real concern is the JB weld. Im wondering if theres a way to lead that. I will try to talk w my metal buddy.
And the set screw plug. only due to the fact its not a liquid tight thread design. Like a small pipe plug w tapered threads. only It might be hard to find one small enough. could get gooey under points cap.
Re: 76 CB360, before & after
Spent another hour staring at it.
Let me know I am on track.
#1 honda relies on these left and right journals to "feed" the bowls and lube the outer bearings. filling bowls, the cam lobes dip into it.
#2 the full bowls then feed the inner bearings along with returning the oil down cam chain to crankcase.
However the bowls may never get full enough to properly feed inner bearings through the intended beveled journals due to the violent action of lobes, splashing and slapping oil around.
#3 if you create a small valley from bottom of bearing surface angling up radius and exit through Hondas beveled journals the counter clockwise spinning action of the cam should (theoretically) wick or draw oil from the lower point in bowl up into bearing surface. It looks like the biggest error a guy can make is, starting it cold and letting it idle on the side stand for an extended period. That would greatly increase the chance of running the center bearing dry.
What do you think of this theory?
Spent another hour staring at it.
Let me know I am on track.
#1 honda relies on these left and right journals to "feed" the bowls and lube the outer bearings. filling bowls, the cam lobes dip into it.
#2 the full bowls then feed the inner bearings along with returning the oil down cam chain to crankcase.
However the bowls may never get full enough to properly feed inner bearings through the intended beveled journals due to the violent action of lobes, splashing and slapping oil around.
#3 if you create a small valley from bottom of bearing surface angling up radius and exit through Hondas beveled journals the counter clockwise spinning action of the cam should (theoretically) wick or draw oil from the lower point in bowl up into bearing surface. It looks like the biggest error a guy can make is, starting it cold and letting it idle on the side stand for an extended period. That would greatly increase the chance of running the center bearing dry.
What do you think of this theory?
Re: 76 CB360, before & after
and Please dont get me wrong frogman.
I do believe your design is far superior to my theory.
Your oil is being forced into the bearing by the pump. foolproof, if the pump is pumping you got lubrication.
The bowl has to be atleast half full before mine would start to lubricate. But it may still be better than hondas plan. which seems to be virtually no plan at all.
ESPECIALLY, in the event a guy filled the journals #1 and/or #2 inadvertently w hondabond then its pretty much game over from the start!
and Please dont get me wrong frogman.
I do believe your design is far superior to my theory.
Your oil is being forced into the bearing by the pump. foolproof, if the pump is pumping you got lubrication.
The bowl has to be atleast half full before mine would start to lubricate. But it may still be better than hondas plan. which seems to be virtually no plan at all.
ESPECIALLY, in the event a guy filled the journals #1 and/or #2 inadvertently w hondabond then its pretty much game over from the start!
Re: 76 CB360, before & after
and between putting the deck back on tractor and this...I was totally able to procrastinate working on the bike tonight. Actually a nice little break!
thanks
the reason for installing deck on tractor...all the engine parts Ive been washing I got a 10 foot circle of green grass growing. It got about a foot tall! The rest of yard is still brown and crunchy. LOL
and between putting the deck back on tractor and this...I was totally able to procrastinate working on the bike tonight. Actually a nice little break!
thanks
the reason for installing deck on tractor...all the engine parts Ive been washing I got a 10 foot circle of green grass growing. It got about a foot tall! The rest of yard is still brown and crunchy. LOL
frogman
'74 CB360, '71 CB450, '75 CB550SS
Re: 76 CB360, before & after
The Allen screw got put in with a dab of Honda bond, then I let it dry. Later I made sure that none had gotten into the passage by blowing them out with compressed air.
I closed that channel on the left side because in my mind oil flows like water looking for the path of least resistance, which in stock form is right into the tub, comes up the passage hits the cam, runs right out. That bearing is also the smallest so it needs all the oil it can get.
JB weld, well its what I had, if it fell off I guess I will find out. I have other means to fill that channel I just wanted to see what happens. IF it works great if not, then I will weld it up.
And no offense taken man, I've scratched my head many a night wondering why Honda didn't drill that gallery even though they molded it into the head. Like I said, I may get ambitious the next oil change and pop the cover off and see. I thought about doing the diagonal cut as well, more than welcome to try it.
The Allen screw got put in with a dab of Honda bond, then I let it dry. Later I made sure that none had gotten into the passage by blowing them out with compressed air.
I closed that channel on the left side because in my mind oil flows like water looking for the path of least resistance, which in stock form is right into the tub, comes up the passage hits the cam, runs right out. That bearing is also the smallest so it needs all the oil it can get.
JB weld, well its what I had, if it fell off I guess I will find out. I have other means to fill that channel I just wanted to see what happens. IF it works great if not, then I will weld it up.
And no offense taken man, I've scratched my head many a night wondering why Honda didn't drill that gallery even though they molded it into the head. Like I said, I may get ambitious the next oil change and pop the cover off and see. I thought about doing the diagonal cut as well, more than welcome to try it.
crazypj
Split personality, I fake being smart
Re: 76 CB360, before & after
Oil takes path of least resistance.
At high rpm it goes from pump, to centrifugal filter and, most goes back to sump as the spring loaded piece in clutch cover gets forced back.
Doesn't matter how good the holes are at top of engine if the oil is staying in the bottom.
There just isn't enough reserve pressure to force oil up through studs to top galley
This is what a friend in Belgium is doing to fix the problem
Oil takes path of least resistance.
At high rpm it goes from pump, to centrifugal filter and, most goes back to sump as the spring loaded piece in clutch cover gets forced back.
Doesn't matter how good the holes are at top of engine if the oil is staying in the bottom.
There just isn't enough reserve pressure to force oil up through studs to top galley
This is what a friend in Belgium is doing to fix the problem
frogman
'74 CB360, '71 CB450, '75 CB550SS
Re: 76 CB360, before & after
Yeah, I've got a spare clutch cover that will be receiving bypass treatment for an external oil cooler and filter, Hadn't thought of adding in a pressure regulator but would make sense.
My bike never spends very much time over 6-7k rpm so I would figure the pressure blow by shouldn't be happening that much. Nothing else one could pull that apart and install a stronger spring?
Yeah, I've got a spare clutch cover that will be receiving bypass treatment for an external oil cooler and filter, Hadn't thought of adding in a pressure regulator but would make sense.
My bike never spends very much time over 6-7k rpm so I would figure the pressure blow by shouldn't be happening that much. Nothing else one could pull that apart and install a stronger spring?
Re: 76 CB360, before & after
PJ , any input about my little valley idea? Ever seen or tried anything like that? I think it would have to travel from the bottom of bearing and up to the existing journal, to give oil an exit. If it came to a dead end, I believe it would just become a pocket for crap to collect in. Causing more harm than good. Also if it was slightly tapered larger to smaller. The oil could accelerate as it traveled through the valley increasing its self cleaning capability.
It looks like the biggest error a guy can make is, starting it cold and letting it idle on the side stand for an extended period. That would greatly increase the chance of running the center bearing dry.
Also, along w the ZDDP I got a package of Z paste cam and valve assembly lube. I was thinking of using this on the piston rings and pins, any views on that?
http://www.eastwood.com/zp-paste-625-oz-packet.html
PJ , any input about my little valley idea? Ever seen or tried anything like that? I think it would have to travel from the bottom of bearing and up to the existing journal, to give oil an exit. If it came to a dead end, I believe it would just become a pocket for crap to collect in. Causing more harm than good. Also if it was slightly tapered larger to smaller. The oil could accelerate as it traveled through the valley increasing its self cleaning capability.
It looks like the biggest error a guy can make is, starting it cold and letting it idle on the side stand for an extended period. That would greatly increase the chance of running the center bearing dry.
Also, along w the ZDDP I got a package of Z paste cam and valve assembly lube. I was thinking of using this on the piston rings and pins, any views on that?
http://www.eastwood.com/zp-paste-625-oz-packet.html
