College kid with a Norton Atlas

Thanks For all the info NortonGuy. I took a look at the link and it is great lot of great information and pictures.

I was able to get the cam breather out by running a feeler gauge around the radius and using a punch on the back side of it. I then took a file and cleaned up the breather and got it into useable shape and put it back in the engine. I figured it was there for a reason it need to be in there so I left it.

As far as the oil pump is concerned I'm going to look in to the oil passage upgrade. But I have the cases sealed together already.
Would the larger capacity oil pump drive be worth finding without the oil passage upgrade?
 
I put the faster oil pump gears on an otherwise stock Norton twin about 20 years ago and it's present owner is still riding it around. I have seen other examples of people doing this mod with no problem too. The oiling system on the early Norton Dominator engines really is marginal, we know this because current builders of Norton performance twins even think that the late Commando oiling is marginal!

Not everything Norton did at the factory was correct. They made a few mistakes here and there over the years that can be corrected. My friend that told me to ditch the breather disk used to work right at the Norton factory in the late 50s/early 60s, then he was the head technician for the USA Norton distributor and head of it's racing team, so he certainly had information that trumped the factory service manuals and parts books.

That said, people rode many thousands of miles on Nortons as they were assembled from the factory, so factory service manuals are never going to get you into trouble.

When you rebuild your cylinder head note if it has scrolled or plain rocker arm spindles. The spindles should be tight in the head, and the head should be heated when the spindles are installed or removed. If you have scrolled spindles then you have to feed oil to them from the return line back to the oil tank, if the spindles are plain then you need a high-pressure feed to them from a banjo fitting and bolt that is underneath the oil relief valve in the timing cover. Getting the wrong oil feed to the wrong type of rocker spindles can cause Big Problems. Since your bike is an early model, it would have come with the scrolled rockers and a fitting on the return line to the oil tank to run a rubber hose up to the top of the head to feed them, unless of course someone swapped newer parts in at a later date.

Your engine originally came with low compression pistons, around 7.5:1 with dished tops. I see in the photos someone had installed flat-top pistons, which would boost the compression to about 9:1. This is okay as long as you use the ignition timing that was used on the Commando 750 which ran the flat-tops from the factory. When you set the timing try to err on the side of less ignition timing, that will help you out if you get some bad gas or are running in really hot weather. 29 Degrees is what famous Norton tuner Paul Dunstall recommended for Nortons with 9:1 compression, I would certainly not have any more advance than that.

The monobloc carbs have to be taken all apart and looked at very closely, every little passageway has to be gently and carefully cleaned out, never use any sort of bead blasting etc. on the carbs, this is hand work.

If the carbs are clean and installed properly, the only other thing that spoils idle quality is a bad ignition advance mechanism. They can get sticky or the springs can go bad and cause erratic timing at low rpms, so it is something to look at if you have any problems.

If you are mechanically inclined and have a clean work area, you should have fun taking the magneto carefully apart and cleaning it gently with a gentle solvent like kerosene etc. and compressed air. Watch out for the delicate shims that set end play, they are very thin and can be damaged. Put it back together with a very little bit of high-temp wheel bearing grease on the ball bearings, work in enough with your fingers to give them a small coating. Remember too much grease here will creep through the magneto and muck up your brushes and eventually stop it from working well or at all.

I think you should be pretty much set. Remember your best friends are information and patience. Let me know if you have any other questions or problems.

You are lucky to have got your hands on a Norton from the 60s, they are pretty legendary bikes and are rarer and a cut above their contemporaries. When it is running well you will be very impressed with it's torque and speed.
 
Thank you for all that awesome info.

I wouldn't have noticed that the pistons were higher compression, and I definitely wouldn't have known to change the timing.
Thank you for pointing that out.

I'm looking for a set of oil pump drive gears as well. But before I buy them I'm going to do a little research and make sure that my gears aren't already the later set. It seams as if the guy that was rebuilding it before me was on track to doing an expensive rebuild.

I haven't had time to really work on it lately, But I still do research on it everyday. I'll keep you updated when I get around to pulling the head apart.
 
The pump drive gears in your photo of the timing chest of your engine look like the older "three start" gears, not the faster late "6-start" type. There is a section on the Facebook page just on oiling with photos and descriptions of the pumps and other oil system parts.

It is good that you are going slow and doing more research than anything else, that is certainly the smartest thing that can be done in your situation.

Good luck.
 
If/when you start to strip the mag, please remember to remove the one or two screws at the corners that go into the commutator to bleed off any stray sparks. If they are not removed the commutator which is made of bakelite will crack or break.

When you assemble it, check the timing on both cylinders. the points cam on those is annular. In other words it's around the outside of the points and they are often/sometimes off on one side and have to be stoned to shape. That means hand ground, not the biblical sense or the modern usage of that word.

Your cam may be stoned but you don't want it hammered. :)
 
teazer said:
... and have to be stoned to shape. That means hand ground, not the biblical sense or the modern usage of that word.

Your cam may be stoned but you don't want it hammered. :)

That was good!
 
IN cases where the ignition timing is off between cylinders on Lucas k2f magnetos, the first thing to check is the condition of the paper bearing insulating cups. Usually fresh and correctly installed new ones will fix any problems if the cam ring is good. A lot of people over the years have wasted time and effort altering their cam rings simply because the insulating cups were contaminated and compressed on one side, or poorly installed pushing the armature spindle a bit off center.
 
That's true, and after the cam has been checked and installed correctly there are times when it will have to be stoned, but NortonGuy make s a good point.
 
Thanks for the info guys!
I've been stuck in the library studying for the past couple of days for a test I have tomorrow. I'm planning on getting the jug on the engine on Friday.

So when compressing the rings do I need an actual ring compressor or can I get by with an extra set of hands compressing the rings into the groves like I did on the last engine I rebuilt a cb650, but it also had beveled edges on the jug.

As for removing the spindles in the head, I read somewhere maybe the service manual that I need to heat up the head can I use a heat gun to heat it up or will I need to use another method. Maybe the oven or some sort of torch.

Thanks again guys

PS as for getting the cam stoned and hammer I'll look into that ;)
 
Scott84 said:
I read somewhere maybe the service manual

It is time for you to make sure of things before you do them, and to know what you are doing, otherwise you are going to end up destroying parts. If you have a service manual for your bike, then you should use it and do what it says. For instance if you already pulled the rocker arm spindles out of the head without heating the head in an oven, then there is a chance you may have made their fit in the head too loose. This is exactly why I already told you more than once that patience is your best friend.

If it is more important for you to have the bike running and together at all, and not having it running and together right, then it has not found a good home has it.

Hopefully you will not do enough damage to the bike that you or someone else will not be able to fix it the right way at some point in the future.

I am out of here.
 
You know I ask questions so I can reinforce what I've read and improve my understanding. You your self said that the original Norton builders/technicians didn't always have the right answer or do something the best way. Take the cam breather. You said that a technician told you that it was "useless anyway" he got that knowledge from on hand experience. That's all I'm asking was what was the best way that you have found from your experience. The manuals are close to 50 years old now. Alot has changed since then there has been new techniques developed.

Do you take me for a fool? Did you really think that I would just rip the head apart without taking a look at the service manual again? No I wouldn't I've been taking this slow because I don't have the time to actually work on it yet I've been studying for days for school so give me a break if I don't exactly know where I've read something. Also I don't fully understand exactly how it comes apart to I haven't tried yet.

But really what would it really matter to you if I did something wrong on my bike? I mean really? If I have to find parts because I screw something up, oh well lessoned learned life moves on I'm wiser in the end for it. I bought this bike because I enjoy working on motorcycles and learning how they work and I realize what it is and what potential it has. The way I look at it is I'm only 20 years old I have a lot of mistakes left to make.

Anyways thanks for all your guidance and the information you have given to me it has be invaluable.
 
Well Sorry if I come across as grumpy and harsh, it is just who I am. I have seen some rare old bikes ruined by ham-fists and it left scars on my soul and I have flashbacks, so don't mind me. You are doing great for being 20 years old.

The factory service manuals are a big help for the basics. If your cases are back together then go with it. You are young and you can always tear it back apart in a year or two, or you can get an extra engine and swap them back and forth so you don't lose any riding time. Until you really get an engine together right, I would resist running it really hard. Keep it below 6000 rpm.

If you are going to have anyone do work on the cylinder head for you, then you better shop around a while until you find someone with Norton experience who will do a good job on it. If you join your nearest Norton club branch then you will run into people who will be able to recommend competent help in your area. I have my own valve and seat grinding equipment and have not messed a head up yet, but there are enough details in the heads that need attention one could surely bite me back someday.

The 750 Norton was made in greater numbers than any other Norton ever from 1962 through 1973, so you lucked out in that respect, the parts for that size Norton are the easiest to find and cheapest. I am sure you have been poking around on Ebay, and if you put a watch on 750 heads etc. you will see that they are reasonably priced. The most expensive parts are those that wear out and people need to replace, the cylinders and cranks. The rest of the parts you can often find for very little cash if the seller is sane and knows the market.

If you get stuck give me a shout.
 
Hi Scott,
Can I suggest that you review this restoration thread for your bike.
http://www.accessnorton.com/norton-n15cs-hybrid-restoration-t3627.html

Then search all related threads for N15cs.
The accessnorton guys also very knowlegeable and will be able to assist with what parts are interchangable.
I also have a N15cs, which I am slowly restoring.
This bike was markets by matchless, norton and AJS, with only minor differences.
Matchless G15
Norton N15 /N15cs (competition spring)
AJS model 33
So you may wish to research those models if you hit a brick wall.

Thanks,
Francis
 
hello young man….The best site for vintage british bikes is; www.britbike.com for help with your project. if you do need magneto or generator overhaul/repair i can help out.
good luck, joe@Vcycle
 
Thanks for the info and kind words Guys. I haven't been working on the bike because of the weather, it hasn't been nice here for a while now and going out and working in a uninsulated garage when its below 0 isn't going to happen. Ill get more work done on the old girl when it warms up some.

Doomsday, I found that thread already and have looked through it two or three times now ha. Its good inspiration for me when I get discouraged to see how much potential my bike has.

Joea, Thanks for the offer, I'm gonna take this one step at a time. I plan on trying to get the engine together first before I try and tear into another portion if the bike so I don't have more pieces to sort though than I already have.

I'm afraid this project is getting put on hold till spring and when its warm enough to work in the garage. Its to cold to work at 7220 feet!!
Thanks Scott
 
I'm not sure if it was mentioned before, but your bike has the same frame as Matchless G12 and AJS 31. Probably the motor has some similar parts as well.

This is the G12:

matchless-g12.jpg
 
Hey Jack, that G12 is beautiful. the tank and the motor look different but other than that the bike looks like it has alot of the same parts. I really do like the paint on that bike. The black on the fenders is nice. I don't have any updates on the bike because it has just been to cold up here at 7220 ft to be working in the garage along with my engineering classes. The days it gets sunny and maybe up into the 40's I've taken my 1980 CB650 to class though. I really want this winter to be a short one so I can have a running bike this summer.
 
Scott84 said:
Hey Jack, that G12 is beautiful. the tank and the motor look different but other than that the bike looks like it has alot of the same parts. I really do like the paint on that bike. The black on the fenders is nice. I don't have any updates on the bike because it has just been to cold up here at 7220 ft to be working in the garage along with my engineering classes. The days it gets sunny and maybe up into the 40's I've taken my 1980 CB650 to class though. I really want this winter to be a short one so I can have a running bike this summer.

The weather is crazy. Here in Israel it should be cold and rainy, but instead it's the driest January ever recorded.
The bike in the picture is not mine. I found it in Google images just for the example. You can see my project here: http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=45784.0
 
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