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Well here's the new problem:
I just installed the new coils and condenser following this $50 mod (http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=6496.270) and I also rewired a new circuit for more power to my coils (http://www.wgcarbs.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=26).
I thought I did a pretty good job following the instructions, but apparently my bike would not start after it had refused to idle several times. I have compression, fuel and spark so what could the problem be? I also used 91 octane. Before this, my bike ran pretty well with 91 octane and 87 octane mixed (I'm stupid) so I guess that makes it 89?
I suspect a few things that I should look over:
1) I could have wired the Ignition Coils reverse. The bike did take some time to get it running, but it eventually started and ran for a little bit, then it died and refused to fire up after that. It didn't run very smoothly and somewhat backfired a bit, I think switching the coil wiring could have messed up the timing.
2) Check the condenser. Does the condenser have to be grounded? I got a replacement at MikesXS and the condenser has a metal piece on the cylindrical portion. I just zip-tied it around the coils. Also, would it matter if the condenser had it's connectors switched?
3) Use 89 Octane?
Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
I also wanted to show how I wired the extra circuit that may be the cause of the problem. After finishing the install I got a reading of how much power I was getting to the coils. With the battery at 11.7V I was getting 11.6V to the coils. It wasn't 100% but I figured that's enough.
Anyway, this is how I wired the extra circuit:
From the Website
Wiring Diagram for the cb450 (Pay special attention to the coil wiring at the middle-bottom)
How I wired the 4-pin relay:
- 85 was grounded to the negative terminal on the battery.
- 30 was wired how the article instructs it to be wired.
- 86 has a wire running all the way to the black/white wire that comes from the kill switch to power the coils. At the end of the wire soldered to 86 is a male bullet connector that is connected to only one of the two female connectors of the black/white wire.
- 87 has one wire spliced into 2 like a "Y" with female bullet connectors at each end. One end went to either the left or right coil and plugged into the black/white wire (colored brown on the coils that I replaced them with). The instructions on the website for this pin on the relay confused me a bit.
I ended up with spark so I think I wired the relay correctly.
11.7 volts seems pretty low i mean that 12v is just an average i guess but my battery puts out anywhere between 12.3-4 to 13.2 if i check right after i have been running. maybe those dyna coils need just a little more juice could you daisy chain a good battery or hook your up to a charger and se if that makes a difference?
It looks like you wired it up correctly. That's how I did it. I have some pics around here somewhere. Make sure the new fuse hasn't blown or come loose. Try turning the kill switch on and off with the bike on (but not running) to see if you can hear the new relay clicking. Check all your connectors again. Make sure all your grounds are good. Charge your battery. Make sure your petcock is on. Sometimes its the stupid stuff.
2) Check the condenser. Does the condenser have to be grounded? I got a replacement at MikesXS and the condenser has a metal piece on the cylindrical portion. I just zip-tied it around the coils. Also, would it matter if the condenser had it's connectors switched?
Yes condensor needs to be grounded. Nylon zip-ties might not do it. A condensor is a condensor is a condensor (shouldn't matter if the connectors switched)
I forgot to mention my battery was at 11.7V before charging. After I charged it, it was back at 12V. I even tried starting while the battery was still connected
to the charger, where the battery was at 12.5V.
The relay does click when I switch the kill switch to in and off. I'm going to try a different octane first because I had a really hard time starting when I used 91 with my old coils. I'll get back to you guys later today. Thank you for the advice!
So I tried cranking the engine again. After about 6 cranks, the start motor gave up. So I'm thinking not grounded the condensor could be a part of it, if that makes any sense. I'm going to remove the relay as well.
when I turn the ignition switch on and the kill switch on, the left coil seems to warm up but the right one stays cold. I'm having trouble trying to get some readings from the coil wires as well. what does that mean?
Have you pulled the plugs to see if they are actually firing,,,so the firing order is correct :(it will fart and not run if it's reversed,,,trust me I know) remember when the points OPEN you have ignition,,,,,
They are probably 'polarity sensitive', if connected up backwards wont work right ( I don't remember why )
Remove relay put it back stock and make sure its working.
When is running right again, fit relay.
Your battery sounds scrap, should be closer to 13.5v when fully charged.
You did take power from 'correct' side of starter solenoid?(Battery side)
If its motor side it will only spark when cranking.
ground capacitors or they won't work.
You should have one for each coil, the XS650 is double pole so one wire goes to each coil and grounds through body
I actually got it to work! I did what PJ said: put it back to stock first. Next thing I did was make a ground for the condensor. After I did that, the left coil stopped warming up when the switch and ignition was on. ALSO I found out that my battery charger was set to charge up to 6v! (doh) I did some readings without the relay and I wasn't getting full voltage to the coils. So I put the relay back in and checked the spark and firing sequence. It turns out that it's a lot better with the relay on. The spark is a bit beefier now and the left coil didn't misfire.
I got the bike to fire right up and idle. With the new coils it sounds a bit louder. I rode it a little around the block to charge up the battery a bit, let it idle then it died. Fired it back up and brought it into the garage to fully charge. I think it shouldn't die anymore because it now has a charge of 13.2V. I will check how it runs first thing tomorrow morning.
Good to hear you finally have her running, sounds like you are almost there! Have you done your jetting work yet, if not, you may not want to do much riding. Running with pods and the modified straight pipes, you will need jet work, running without propper jets could cause major setbacks! I am sure you are almost on the edge with setbacks, so dont cause yourself more grief, and get your jetting right.
I found out my main jets are 150. The bike doesn't backfire nor does it bog down so i think jetting is good. If I recall, the 450s came out of the factory running rich.
Man I've been itching to ride! I just rode a little bit this morning and the battery had a charge of 12.5V so I may have to get a new battery. Also after riding for like 5 minutes then fiddling with the clutch adjustment, my bike died. So after trying to start it up, it'd run if I held the throttle but it died shortly after I released the throttle or tried to launch in first gear. Could the battery be the culprit? Carb issue?
When I got my bike, I knew it was going to take some fiddling and work to get it running well and reliably. But I wanted to learn how the thing worked. To me, there is no better way to learn than by doing. Just think, by having to fix this, you now know more than you ever would about vehicle ignition systems.
[singing in my best british accent] "Always look on the bright side of life."
You'll get there.
Does it start right up if you let it sit for a minute, and then die? That happened to me when I was having fuel flow issues.
Figure out how to check the health of the coils (I have no idea). I know they are new, but one could still be bad. Again, make sure your connections are tight and clean.
Haha thanks for the encouraging words! I've learned so much with this bike, it's just tiring haha.
I got the same coils in the $50 mod post from mikesxs. The bike starts up fine but it dies unless I give it some gas (throttle). This is after I've had it running for 10 minutes, idling and riding. I guess I should check my spark and the carb bowls.
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