VINDICATOR - 60's style Cafe Racer TR1

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Back to the plot now ................

I checked out the "spinning starter - not engaging" syndrome - HOPING it might just be a solenoid problem...No such luck, looks like the starter clutch or drive gears might be the problem.........ah well.

So, this weekend I'll get the "new" bike bump started to make sure there are no issues with the motor - i was told by the PO that all was fine apart from the starter.

Then it will be strip down and get busy.

I've already discussed the colourways with you guys and decided on the FO Red / Gold / Polished alloy with Satin Black engine. I've seena few engines lately [ vees ] and somehow they don't look right with the fins filed / polished. So first off it will be completely Satin Black with the various polished alloy covers to break it up.

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Hey Rev,

I saw a referrence to this fix over on the Virago Forum, but the pix had been deleted.

yea, I'm now guessing - Starter Clutch, Starter Planetary gear ring loose, Throw out gears phucked.

I haven't seen pix but I'm imagining a roller / spring sprag clutch as in my BMW Kay 100?

Any info. on dismantling the housing please ? Again, I saw ref. to machining / cutting, and others to a "crimped" construction. I managed to get a complete very low mileage throw out ass'y off E-Bay for £65 - well pleased with that.
Just leaves the possible clutch and or planetary gear issues.

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Work began in earnest today on "my" TR1 - "The Vindicator".

I sold the exhaust and some other parts that I am not using [ £450 ! ], so I decided to start stripping the parts off. Predator aftermarket exhaust off, tank side panels and most of the ancilliaries - so I decided to keep at it.
3 1/2 hours later and the bike is down to the rolling chassis with the engine loose and ready to come out. I've still got about another £300 to come in from sale of parts - if I achieve that - then the bike owes me nothing !

I'll have another blitz over the weekend, so should be somewhere near to break it down for powder coating and getting parts away for polishing, gold passivating, etc.,etc. - all the jobs I can't do "in house".

Then I'll have a troll through my "goodies" box - clip-ons, Tarozzi Rear Sets, 7" chrome headlamp [ Guzzi style] , Duke 750SS rear lamp, etc.,etc.

I've changed my mind YET AGAIN re: some of the colours : - I'm doing the hubs Gold now before the wheel build. I'm still debating whether to have the fork yokes [ triple trees ] polished, or painted Red. Comments? Also decided [ finally ] that the engine will be solid satin Black - NO fin filing / polishing - with cam / tappet / starter / clutch mech. covers highly polished as a bit of contrast. Thanx to some sound advice from you guys - I'll have the "YAMAHA" logo welded over [ clutch side ] and then fettled /painted out. The alternator side is much easier - as I can do away with the screw on cover and replace it with "something else" !!

My latest E-Bay purchase - an XS650 alloy rimmed rear wheel will be here over the next few days. The rim is good but only 2.5" wide - so I'll have that polished and used on the front and just have to buy the WM5 3.5" for the rear.

I've also decided - phuk the expense, I'm going for Amal Mk2 Concentrics with proper velocity stacks - none of this pissy filtration nonsense !!

I'll post some pix up over the weekend of the progress - but it really does begin now, I' like a kid again - Spring isn't that far away !! 8)

BTW - pic attached is the bike at 11.30 today - just before the off !

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

This pix 3 1/2 hours later with some of my goodies.

The rear wheel is from an XS650 and although the rim is too narrow for the rear, it will be ideal for the front - and save me having to buy a new rim ! I'll have the rim polished prior to building, but it's in good condition with no dings.
The front hub is also XS650, this time I'll build with twin discs. Both hubs will be Gold [ I think ! ] and I'm planning on some nice cooling [ BS ] holes in the rear brake plate with fine brass mesh on the inside. Briefly thought about the Turbo [ for my BMW K100 / 1100 Fighter], but if I do eventually blow one of the CR's - I will go with a period Shorrock supercharger.

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

+ 2 hours from above.

Clip-ons and controls mocked up - though not tidied up ! Tried the trad 60's headlamp bracket [ aftermarket ] and just didn't look right, so I'm going to mod the OEM yamaha "spider" brackets. Basically you can't really see them - until I paint the suckers in FO Red that is!

I removed the idiot light panel and when I did that immediately resolved two issues I was having - filling the holes left by the OEM handlebar risers, and making a neater mounting plate for the instruments. So 2 birds with one stone - I'll make up some 60's - Goldie style mounts in alloy or stainless and mount them off the riser mounts. I've decided to have both yokes [ triple trees ] highly polished - the top one does bear a bit of a resemblance to the Goldie Taylor-Dow unit. The bike came with 60's style fork gaiters - and I might just keep them. Loads of other parts removed that you can't really see, but I've now got a growing pile of parts for polishing!

I ordered the Amal Mk2 Concentrics today. They also do a really neat 30 degree bend inlet stub, which I think may just move the carbs out and up a tad, allowing me to get some 3 1/2" Velocity stacks on.

I even managed to get the final dimensions for my Kay Fighter front wheel spindle today - so that's off tomorrow to be completed.

All in all I achieved more in a couple of days than the last 4 months !

 

[two-smoker]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Wow, you move quick when you want to! So, I might sound ignorant, but I've never heard of a Shorrock supercharger... What period is that from? edit: nevermind- I just googled it. The reason I've never heard of it before is probably because it's British. And I'm not. Lol.

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

The Shorrock blower was very popular here in the UK from the 50's onwards and spot on for our "small" cars - usually sub 1000cc - 1500cc. They were a popular instant speed add-on for BMC A series engines - Minor, Sprite, etc. In the late 50's the Bike Sprint [ pre-Drag Racing ] guys adopted them for their Triumphs, Vincents, J.A.P.s etc. Instant 40 % power gain with very few side issues.

On methanol you were talking about doubling the HP with no other mods.

I raced [ circuit ] a Renault R8 Gordini fitted with a Shorrock C75B unit, and it was very quick. I later Drag Raced it and outperformed cars with 5 times my engine capacity [ 1300cc ]. Here I am at Santa Pod Raceway in 1968

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Here's my weekend project [ tied up with family stuff this week ] - revamp the instrument mounts to do away with the idiot lights and bring the instruments closer / lower to the top Yoke. I'll mount the brackets [ Goldie style ] off the handlebar riser mounts - which are already rubber mounted ! Once the top yoke is tidied up I'll get the paint stripped and have it highly polished. The lower yoke is already in natural finish, so that will be fairly easy to get a good polish on it. I'll get my pal to weld up the modified OEM headlamp brackets and get that area fully mocked up Brackets will be FO Red - should look OK against the 7" chrome headlamp. While I'm at it, I'll re-position the ignition switch out of the way. I had to move the BMW forks off the "bench" to make some space .................the 4 pot Brembos look like they have very similar mounting hole spacings........

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

A good day in a piss poor week !!

The guy that is modifying my new stainless steel spindle for the BMW Kay Fighter, has quoted me almost half the price I paid to make me some copies.

What's more he can machine the spindles for the TR1 [ front / rear wheel and swingarm ] for 40% less than I've been quoted elsewhere. Result.

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Sold the stock carbs today - $130 - that's $130 towards my new Amal Concentric Mk2's [ $280 ]. Also sold the stock gearlinkage and footrest hangers $60 against my Tarozzi rear set kit at $145 - all helps !

 

[biker_reject]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Often times I feel like I'm just bartering. Sell parts to buy parts. Ha!

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Often times I feel like I'm just bartering. Sell parts to buy parts. Ha!

That's the way to do it reject,

I paid £600 [ $1000 ?? ] for the bike + £135 transportation. To date I've sold off the Predator exhaust, tank, bars, mixture control valve, gear linkage, carbs, centre stand. To date that's £695 - another £40's worth of sales and the bike owes me nothing !
Still to sell - both wheels and tyres, seat, mudguards and lights - maybe another £250?

 

[biker_reject]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

The tough part for me is relisting (fees and all...). I still have a pile in the shed that I can't seem to get rid off. Really would hate to throw them away.

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Managed to get the instruments and headlamp brackets mocked up today - took the easy route with the instrument mounts and modified the OEM unit and located it from a different mount to bring it closer and lower to the top yoke. I'll get them properly fettled and then - not sure red or black? The top yoke is being highly polished. The bonus is that I can re-use 2 of the idiot light holes. As I'm not having indicators, I only need 3 idiot lamps - I might try to get the high beam lamp in the speedo - as in the old Smiths units. The headlamp is a little too high, but is only a 6" unit. When I put my 7" flat back unit in I think it will be more in proportion. The ignition switch will have extended leads and mounted down behind the rear cylinder. I pulled the coils out and joy of joys - they are ye olde screw in leads, so my GBFO 10mm silicone leads will fit. Grrrrrrrrrr.

I also had a play around with the OEM tank, as my pal's dummy plant on is taking too long for me. I'll still use it sometime - too much effort gone into it ! Maybe on the Mk2 bike ? However, I can disguise the tank by welding a strip along the bottom to take off the reverse curve and I'll make up a small filler at the back to bring it into the seat. I'm also playing with the Duke 750SS single race unit - undecided, but could look OK. I've further disguised the origin of the tank by replacing the OEM filler with a period solid Brass "Monza" cap. I bought this cap 40 years ago and never used it ! I'm going to have it highly polished rather than chrome plated - just to be different. I'll finish the tank off with a Manx style stainless steel mounting strap and over centre clip. That's sixties enough for me !

Also made some mock ups for the seat frame hoop, which will also double up as the side panel mount and somewhere to hide the gel battery. The electronics [ relays etc. ] will get lost in the seat hump.

All in all a productive afternoon - I even fitted a vice [ vise ] to the old office table my pal gave me to use as a bench - solid oak and with a green leather insert !!!!!!!!!

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Just getting a big box of parts ready to go off to the polisher.........

Fork bottoms - polished or Red [ to match tank / tins ] ???????????????

What do we think?

 

[Swagger]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

I'd polish the heck outta the fork bottoms!

I missed this one, don't know how though....
I guess it's a TR1 thing, I just bought #2.75 (I already have 1 and three-quarters of another) and will be picking it up the Saturday. As luck would have it, it's a high mileage runner with fresh paint and tires. 67 thousand miles and only down compression a tick or two in each cylinder.

Just for general edification; Honda CB wheels can indeed be fitted up almost bolt on other than your aforementioned spacer juggling. I'll be running 40mm Showas up front and a slightly modified Ohlins out back that was to be fitted to my now long gone Hinkley 955.

I really like the look of the cut and capped frames like Sepp Koch runs and I spoke with him fairly extensively (as much so as Google Translate would allow) on the subject. He's measured the 'gap' for flex on the racetrack and doesn't see any worth noting so that's a nice bit of info.
I'm leaning toward fabricating my own upper and lower frame sections from tube though....we'll see.

(damned typos)

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Yea Swag, I'm leaning towards polished !

Re: the chopping of the rear frame ........................ I've done a lot of work with auto engines and trannies using them as stressed members, and I'd looked at the Sepp Koch mods, and I'm not convinced.

Not the actual movement [ potential ] in the swingarm to bike centreline [ twist ] but the additional loads imparted to the heads and the rear tranny area [ via the swingarm ].

Of course we have to say that Herr Koch seems to have been fairly successful with his mods [!]

I drew up a top tubular replacement frame which included tubes at the rear of the engine [ a la Featherbed ] picking up both swing arm and the rear engine cases. Also allowed me many more options for tank shapes.

I'm not even certain WHY it would be cut out [ frame section ] ? Ugliness I suspect, but then I'm creating side panels to cover that area anyway. I AM cutting the frame section below the swingarm spindle [ axle ] as I won't be using the centre stand. I'll also box the area underneath and weld the sub frame to the main frame. Apart from saving production costs - I can't see any reason why it should be bolted?

My Scorpio Trike presented a similar headache. The whole of the drivesaft / swingarm on the BMW Oilhead powerplant is bolted direct to the rear of the gearbox without any further bracing. Wasn't impressed with that so I designed a sub frame. Then when we stripped a younger bike down - what did we find? BMW had installed a subframe like the one I designed for the Scorpio !

 

[Swagger]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

I know he's had several of his bike on the track, but I too can't help but feel a wee tinge of worry.
That being said, Yamaha has never been one to skimp on engineering and I'd bet the top-end is plenty stout as is. In my case, I think were I to fabricate a separate top frame (Worked for HRD and Vincent) I'd be inclined to upgrade the cylinder studs to something from ARP or equiv. up to and including boring and tapping the cases to accept a size-up. I'd feel pretty good about it at that point.

What has me a little worried is the swingarm pivot area. Not only is it somewhat marginal with no outside bracketing but the backbone seems a little lacking in the area of the pivot bung. All easily addressed but if I'm going so far as to fabricate tubular framework for is then I think something a bit more substantive could be arranged. I'm not even completely set on the current rear suspension layout. I like it just fine and it can be set-up pretty nicely but I have several other options at hand like an R1 rear end transplant or fabricating something with an underslung shock or maybe something wacky like on the Drysdale 750v8! Argh...so many possibilities all wrapped around a nifty engine!

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

What's your thoughts on alternate carbs?

I've ordered a pair of 38mm Amal mk2 Concentrics to try out. They do a natty 30 degree intake mount that would swing the carbs out and down slightly from the heads. Bring them more parallel to Mother Earth AND allow me to get some decent velocity stacks on !

Then I can do away with that *^"*"^** mixture valve.

 

[Swagger]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

I haven't mucked about with Amals though I'm keen to see what all the excitement is about. I think they look a treat though on the proper bike.

In the short term I have a pair of vm38s that I'll use since this will stay a 'rider' early on, however when it comes time to do the engine proper I have a pair of FCR39's (same race carbs I run on the SuperIII) that are half the rack I pulled off my Daytona 1200 when it went away to make run for the 955.
To make those carbs do what they need to:
1063cc (based on Virago 1100 internals) with lightened JE pistons, lightened flywheels and rotating parts, ported heads with hotter cams, Kibblewite valves (available, just not on the site??) 45mm stainless pipes etc.....
Looking into ignition upgrades at the moment but it looks like the OE setup is pretty well regarded even among racers though I'm still inclined to run inline boosters and hotter coils. we'll see...