VINDICATOR - 60's style Cafe Racer TR1

[pacomotorstuff]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Trudging along (4+ years now) with my XV920 cafe project, here's what I've found.
Don't chop the rear frame behind the cylinder. Yes, the frames twist.
Ya sure, I guess you could weld the lower frame to the upper frame but what I did was use oversize Grade 8 aircraft-spec bolts which were a light driving fit in the frame (learned the trick from a vintage racer over here, supposed to make a huge improvement in handling). The bolts cost over 20 bucks... each.
Just make sure you can get the motor back in the frame if you do weld it together - my factory manual is down in the shop and I can't remember whether or not the frame has to be separated to get the engine out...
Yamaha had a bolted on lower rear frame 'cause the upper frame was also used on the shaft drive cruiser Virago, so maybe cost savings?
I was going to cut off the frame below the pivot like you're planning to, but decided to keep the center stand as I believe I can make it serve a secondary purpose. If my plan doesn't work out, I'll trim mine too.
Your comment on the narrow swingarm pivot area is right on the money. On my bike, I machined 2, 60601-T6, 3/8" thick aluminum plates that bolt to the lower rear engine mounting bolts (one plate on either side of the motor) and "sandwichs" the swingarm to provide outboard support. I still need to get a longer pivot bolt machined up since the RZ350 bolt I tried to use (RZ350 uses the same swingarm bearings as the XV920RH) has a reduced diameter in a couple of areas where I needed the full diameter. The machined plates are also my rearsets - the pegs, shifter (left side) and rear brake lever (right side) bolt on to the plates, so one part serves several purposes.
I used VM38's. The only problem I have is the rear carb's air filter (I'm using long K&N filters from a Ducati or something) pushes my knee out - I feel like I'm sitting on a XR1000 Harley. With a wider tank (I'm using a Hailwood NCR tank, which is pretty narrow at the back), it might not be such a problem. Probably have to build short curved intake manifolds or something in the end.
Hope this helps.
Keep chugging on your project - these are great bikes.
Pat Cowan,
Vintage Motorcycle Fiberglass

 

[biker_reject]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Wow, sounds really interesting. I'd love to see a pic of your project!

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Hey Pat - about time you dragged that Yam out from the back of the workshop !!!!

Swag / Pat, 38's seem to be the "round about right" choke size. Amal [ Burlen Fuel Systems Ltd. ] have said they will be happy to work with me on this project to produce a conversion kit. They already have several - Triumph twin . Gold Star .......

What I particularly like [ apart from my familiarity with the carbs ! ] is that the factory is very approachable and down to earth. I got to speak directly with the CEO - and it was just like talking with another enthusiast.They will suggest a ball park setting and then we can experiment from there. The 38mm Amal is somewhat slimmer than the OEM carbs; I take your point Pat about forcing the knees out !

I have stripped one of the spare bikes down now, and the engine drops out no problem without seperating the sub frame. I suspect production cost savings - cheaper to press 2 small components that one large one.

Pat - I took a serious look at the swingarm mount after I read about the Koch mod to see if there was any merit. I must say - like you, I wasn't even that happy with the strength / loading at that point even with the frame intact ! I like what you've done to strengthen that area on your project. I hear what you're saying about the $20 aircraft bolts - or $5's worth of weld - not that I'm tight or anything!!

I now have the "second" motor on the bench now - the first bike will have a stocker fitted - I need to get on the road this Summer. The #2 piece will get my full attention in due course.
Pat - as soon as I have the Amal curved intakes to try, I'll let you know if they work out.

 

[manolon6]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Take a look at this:
http://www.bikeexif.com/yamaha-xv750
Maybe it could inspire you...

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

That's one beautiful machine and I'll certainly aspire to that level of finish .......................however it's not "sixties" enough for me!

I'd be more than happy to own that, but I want to build a traditional 60's Brit Style Cafe Racer, and that requires a few more styling cues from the era.

Twin clocks, polished alloy rims with stainless spokes, 60's style seat and tank, ditto with tyres, and last but not least a 60's derived colour. And, yes I KNOW I'm blinkered in the 60's......but then I do have a spare bike

That's not criticising the bike in any way - just NOT how I want mine. Then, what's the point of all being different together? 8)

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Managed to mock up the new RAM alloy bodied competition shocker today to see what spacers etc. I need.

I'll let the boys at Realm know and then they will be available as an off the shelf kit.

 

[biker_reject]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Are you also going to brace the pivot area? I don't know if I've missed it on this thread, but what are your plans for rear sets? I've mocked up a couple of templates for mounting plates out of cardboard, but haven't been happy about how they look. After reading the posts about the pivot area, I realized my templates could "sandwich" at least the right side pivot area (I have a shafty).

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Reject - this was the first mock up, there was going to be a larger "arty" piece of plate to brace the open end of the V where the simple strip is. BTW - rearsets are Tarozzi Universal kit.

However, that was before we pulled the spare bike apart, and I'm agreeing with Pat - it looks aweful wimpish in that area.I have now decided that the Mk2 Cafe Racer will definitely have a purpose made top / rear frame [ Featherbed / Goldie style] with plates to reinforce the swing arm pivot.

The Mk1 WILL have to be pretty much as is [ + the original mods I'd planned ] as I MUST get on the road this Spring.

I've already sketched up a possible layout for a frame replacement which will look a bit like a narrow Featherbed around the headstock. The bonus will be that I can lose most of those fuggin ugerly head mounts and design it to take a tank of my choice - AJS 7R or Manx 5 gall. I can also address the wheelbase issue and alter the steering angle at the same time.

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

That's it then, sketches completed and I'm happy that I can achieve what I want. 8)

As soon as the engine comes out of the frame [ after the exhaust has been jigged ], I'll get it on the bench and finalise what I'm going to do.

Here in the UK we are blessed with very lax regulations [ at the moment ! ] about what you can and can't do to vehicles. The authorities are quite happy as long as they can see an original unmolested OEM chassis number. Fortunately the chassis number on the TR1 is stamped into the headstock ! Naturally I'll retain that and grow my new tubular chassis back from that. I'll do it in such a way that the new chassis can be easilly replicated. I can also use the remaining front part of the OEM chassis [ about 6" ] and bore it to make the new frame virtually self jigging. Manx tanks [ and replicas ] are quite plentiful here in the UK, and all current tanks come with ethanol proof linings AND reasonably priced [ £300 ]. I'm trying to find a copy of the 6 gallon TT tank, just like a 5 gallon tank on steroids.

Yes I know, planning the Mk2 when the Mk1 isn't completed !! :

That said, I really do admire the free thinking that is currently going into the TR1 /XV styling - not sure what you'd call it [ specials will do me ] but I'd like to think I might have enough of a feel for the style to build my own version. So, the Mk2 will eventually get all the Cafe Racer stuff from the Mk1 - and the Mk1 will hopefully morph into a modern inerpretation of a CR. That will allow me scope with suspension, bodywork and above all colours - I can get away from having to look at 60's inspired colour ways.

 

[Swagger]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Man...I wish I could spring for one or a pair of those Ram dampers.
It'd be nice to have something one of the good guys had a hand in designing....

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

I've already twisted my pal's arm at Realm and when the prices are announced for the twinshox - there will be an automatic 10% discount for DTT members. Call it my payback.

I'm working on other items for my other projects. The Monoshock for the BMWs is already available [ over 350 sold now ] and the TR1 / XV920 has just finished road trials. AC is busy making up the special spacers for the kit then they're ready. Guess who's already holding his hand up for one !

 

[Erskine]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Here in the UK we are blessed with very lax regulations [ at the moment ! ] about what you can and can't do to vehicles. The authorities are quite happy as long as they can see an original unmolested OEM chassis number.

Sssshh! Don't remind them

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Man...I wish I could spring for one or a pair of those Ram dampers.
It'd be nice to have something one of the good guys had a hand in designing....

Well that was quick - I only gave him the shock back yesterday !

Here is the production version TR1 / XV920 ] with the spacers. There will also be a new bottom pin in the kit. The originals are almost inevitably rust encrusted!

As soon as he has all the costings in I'll post up a price. The other bonus is in the US [ Canada?] you don't pay our 20% vat.

Still working on the twin shock versions.

 

[Swagger]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

So pretty....almost too bad it's hidden in the frame...

 

[Swagger]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer



Obviously not your goal but note the factory swingarm and frame section.
If they thought it could hold up to Paris-Dakar work maybe it's not so weak afteral?

 

[killerx]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Lois is hot!

 

[Swagger]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

certainly umm....endowed up top!

 

[beachcomber]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

WHO would know with a desert bike if the wheels were in line !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure that the Yamaha engineers did their sums when they designed the bike, but it was designed a softie tourer - not a Race bike or even Cafe Racer.

My main concern [ unfounded maybe ] is the twisting stresses put on the casings via the swingarm / rear wheel combo. Quite a bit of weight swinging around that area - now fit a bigger section rear tyre and add a little tuning and maybe a faster riding style ............. me, I'm going to brace that area JIC.

 

[50gary]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

Aftermarket shocks are cool even to look at. Any plans for a reservoir remote or piggyback? I currently have a mono-shock project on the bench and I'm running into a clearance problem so I could be interested in your friend's product, will stay tuned.
Cheers, 50gary

 

[Swagger]

Re: TR1 /XV Traditional Cafe Racer

WHO would know with a desert bike if the wheels were in line !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure that the Yamaha engineers did their sums when they designed the bike, but it was designed a softie tourer - not a Race bike or even Cafe Racer.

My main concern [ unfounded maybe ] is the twisting stresses put on the casings via the swingarm / rear wheel combo. Quite a bit of weight swinging around that area - now fit a bigger section rear tyre and add a little tuning and maybe a faster riding style ............. me, I'm going to brace that area JIC.

I tend to agree, especially since i did a bit of desert racing in college. A swingarm a race and a frame every couple was not an unusual replacement, never mind rims and bars and fenders etc....

I also agree that it likely needs bracing or possibly a complete redesign of the swingarm pivot for real performance use though with reference to 'Lois' I was thinking about the amount of pounding it must withstand. More than anything though, it seems like the XV projects are really coming out of the woodwork lately, especially these last few weeks. Between yours, Swapmeet Louie's and the ones I've seen crop up lately online I have had my own interests rekindled and will likely be putting the XS650 aside for the 920RH I just purchased (I told 'She Who Must Be Obeyed' that I needed this bike. haha) to go with the other two I have waiting it storage. This one however is a solid runner and since the Triumph is down for a bit longer than I'd hoped I will be modifying this Yam as I ride it. Should be interesting.....