What is a Cafe Racer......discuss.
- Thread starter beachcomber
- Start date
joeyputt
The green flag sets me free
Swapmeet Louie said:
Brother it really does not apply to the era of motorcycles being discussed but the first Honda cycles of 1946 were hardtail although they were more of a bicycle design however the 1949 Honda Dream was a hardtail as well as the 1949 C Model, there may be others but I do know of those three being factory hardtail frames.
RoadRash
Coast to Coast
Just 2 cents from a Yank who missed out on the original Racer scene. To me, "Cafe Racer" is not about Make, model or era. A Cafe Racer isn't concerned with the "Alpha Dog" mentality. He may not win every fight, but he's gonna go down, swinging, loosening a few teeth along the way. A "Racer" isn't sitting back on highway pegs and ape-hangers with tons of chrome. He's sitting FORWARD, crouched, ready for the next twist in the road, on a bike that has been stripped of everything deemed unnecessary. Most importantly, a "Cafe Racer" knows the business end of a ratchet and has grown to know every inch of that bike he wrenches on.
From another era. Interesting shot. Top of the line cafe on the left and the not so top of the line cafe on the right. A cafe can be most anything you want it to be.
ScramblerJ said:
Hell no,
those guys weren't even born when the term "Cafe Racer" and the people it applied to were around.
And most of the "born again" bikers are in the 40-50 age group [ in the UK anyway ].
I think the term "Special" is the catchall that applies all through the different eras.
All I'm looking for are terms of convenience to define different eras - not different bikes.
joe_russo31
Been Around the Block
beachcomber said:
Sorry Mate, I was just kidding.... Here in SoCal we have loads of people on really expensive bicycles who wear full on spandex gear (a la Tour de France) to ride ('race') to the coffee shop ('cafe' haha) on the weekends....
On a serious note though.... I agree that it's hard to define a 'cafe racer' (motorcycle) these days, but does it really matter that much?
Looking at old pics of 'rockers' and their 'cafe racers', I see a lot more rather stock looking bikes than single seats, rearsets and clip-ons. It seems that the term 'cafe racer' goes beyond the kinds of bikes and how they were (or weren't) modified and really speaks to the time, place, people, AND bikes and thus, there's NO TRUE 'cafe racers' anymore, so maybe it should be ok to relax a bit about how we use the term....
Or not. I'm often wrong
Cheers!
ScramblerJ said:
You've hit the nail on the head. I've been trying (on another forum) to say that at that time most of the rockers were nothing more than a bunch of broke ass kids trying to imitate racers (to a degree). For most a Dunstall Norton, a Chuck Triumph or a Goldie were nothing more than a dream. The 59 club and others like it were an effort by the C of E to give these kids somewhere to meet as a lot of places at the time had "No leather jacket allowed" rules. My Norton "cafe" (LOL!) of the time had nothing more than clip ons and a megga. It was all I could afford.
By weslake at 2010-10-08
No foul Srambler,
I thought you were referring to those BAT's [ born again tossers ] who go out and buy a Blade or Duke along with brightly coloured race rep one piece suit and then wobble round the lanes being passed by kids on 125's and 250's !!
OK - I don't think I'm being precise enough with my question - what I'm trying to define is the Cafe Racer MACHINE - not the rider or the ethos. In other words - what mental picture do you get when someone says "Cafe Racer".
In the day we were called Ton up Boys, Coffee Bar Cowboys, Rockers and before that - inter war years - Promenade Percies. These were all names applied by the more sensational Daily Newspapers. Cafe Racer was a term that seemed to evolve from the participants themselves as being far more acceptable that the media names.
I'm not trying to be uptight or anal about this - I just need to be able to define the various eras of the "Specials". Most of the various styles that evolved did so based on what was available / affordable at the time.
As Hoof states, in the early 60's, maybe a megga style silencer and replacing the bars - Ace bars were the easy option. Then it was more a case of throwing bits off [ mudguards, side panels, etc. ] Most needed to retain the option to take a pillion - so race seats were only fitted by the more hardcore. Even in those days a 5 gall race style tank was a week's wages - so they usually came well down the list.
Certainly when the 70's came along - together with the Japanese flood of fast, reliable bikes - they became the new Cafe Racers - but by that time people were also more afluent and more and more people were able to "buy" a Cafe Racer off the shelf or at last buy the relevant parts. Right the way though to the modern era - where all you do is bolt a carbon can and some fall over bungs on your Blade, Busa or whatever - the "let's all be different together" brigade.
I thought you were referring to those BAT's [ born again tossers ] who go out and buy a Blade or Duke along with brightly coloured race rep one piece suit and then wobble round the lanes being passed by kids on 125's and 250's !!
OK - I don't think I'm being precise enough with my question - what I'm trying to define is the Cafe Racer MACHINE - not the rider or the ethos. In other words - what mental picture do you get when someone says "Cafe Racer".
In the day we were called Ton up Boys, Coffee Bar Cowboys, Rockers and before that - inter war years - Promenade Percies. These were all names applied by the more sensational Daily Newspapers. Cafe Racer was a term that seemed to evolve from the participants themselves as being far more acceptable that the media names.
I'm not trying to be uptight or anal about this - I just need to be able to define the various eras of the "Specials". Most of the various styles that evolved did so based on what was available / affordable at the time.
As Hoof states, in the early 60's, maybe a megga style silencer and replacing the bars - Ace bars were the easy option. Then it was more a case of throwing bits off [ mudguards, side panels, etc. ] Most needed to retain the option to take a pillion - so race seats were only fitted by the more hardcore. Even in those days a 5 gall race style tank was a week's wages - so they usually came well down the list.
Certainly when the 70's came along - together with the Japanese flood of fast, reliable bikes - they became the new Cafe Racers - but by that time people were also more afluent and more and more people were able to "buy" a Cafe Racer off the shelf or at last buy the relevant parts. Right the way though to the modern era - where all you do is bolt a carbon can and some fall over bungs on your Blade, Busa or whatever - the "let's all be different together" brigade.
joe_russo31
Been Around the Block
My Norton "cafe" (LOL!) of the time had nothing more than clip ons and a megga. It was all I could afford.
By weslake at 2010-10-08
[/quote]
If you ask me, that's a beautiful bike!!
It's funny how you mention "No leather jacket allowed".... I remember in the '80s when I was into punk (still am!) and wearing a painted-up leather jacket (still do, but not painted at the moment!) and Docs (definitely still do!) and having people literally turn away and pull their children away from me as I walked down the street.... Now nobody bats an eye! Funny how times and attitudes change, and I think it's the same for 'rockers' and 'cafe racers'. I think now it's more of a way to look back on a time we all see as more 'simple', whether or not that's really true.....
By weslake at 2010-10-08
[/quote]
If you ask me, that's a beautiful bike!!
It's funny how you mention "No leather jacket allowed".... I remember in the '80s when I was into punk (still am!) and wearing a painted-up leather jacket (still do, but not painted at the moment!) and Docs (definitely still do!) and having people literally turn away and pull their children away from me as I walked down the street.... Now nobody bats an eye! Funny how times and attitudes change, and I think it's the same for 'rockers' and 'cafe racers'. I think now it's more of a way to look back on a time we all see as more 'simple', whether or not that's really true.....
Mini story coming up - should be in BC's Tales - but hey ho it's only a little one [ as the actress said to the Archbishop ].
In the late 70's I operated a successful Muscle car / American Speed Shop in Birmingham. My toy at the time was a production race prepared Laverda Jota - complete with 3 into 1 and mini megga - completely sans baffles !
Anyway, out for a Sunday run with the then Mrs. B [ 2nd ] and we stopped at a rather snooty country pub for some lunch.
As we walked through the door you could almost hear the gasps of the patrons and the maitre d came rushing over to inform us that the pub "didn't serve motorcyclists" - that was before we even had chance to take our crash helmets off.
10 years earlier and I'd have been asking him to pick a window, but I decided on the "don't get mad, get even" approach. So off home - after creating a godawful noise at the pub revving the Jota to 7K as we left and spraying gravel from the drive all up his windows.
An hour later - showered and changed into Jacques Desch' best and Mrs. B looking absolutely stunning - back to the pub in our 1970 Boss Mustang. The maitre D rushed out into the car park to greet us and ushered us in to one of his best tables.
We then ordered a Chateaubriand and no starter and said we were quite prepared to wait. We had a few drinks while we were waiting and the M'd came out a few times fawning on us and telling us the meal wouldn't be long. When we felt enough time had elapsed we got up and I placed £10 on the bar to cover our drinks and walked out with the words - "Oh sorry, I just remembered you don't serve motorcyclists here"........................
In the late 70's I operated a successful Muscle car / American Speed Shop in Birmingham. My toy at the time was a production race prepared Laverda Jota - complete with 3 into 1 and mini megga - completely sans baffles !
Anyway, out for a Sunday run with the then Mrs. B [ 2nd ] and we stopped at a rather snooty country pub for some lunch.
As we walked through the door you could almost hear the gasps of the patrons and the maitre d came rushing over to inform us that the pub "didn't serve motorcyclists" - that was before we even had chance to take our crash helmets off.
10 years earlier and I'd have been asking him to pick a window, but I decided on the "don't get mad, get even" approach. So off home - after creating a godawful noise at the pub revving the Jota to 7K as we left and spraying gravel from the drive all up his windows.
An hour later - showered and changed into Jacques Desch' best and Mrs. B looking absolutely stunning - back to the pub in our 1970 Boss Mustang. The maitre D rushed out into the car park to greet us and ushered us in to one of his best tables.
We then ordered a Chateaubriand and no starter and said we were quite prepared to wait. We had a few drinks while we were waiting and the M'd came out a few times fawning on us and telling us the meal wouldn't be long. When we felt enough time had elapsed we got up and I placed £10 on the bar to cover our drinks and walked out with the words - "Oh sorry, I just remembered you don't serve motorcyclists here"........................
joe_russo31
Been Around the Block
THAT is an AWESOME story!!
Swagger
Putting boot to ass since 1967!
My personal definition:
A bike that's been stripped of all the superfluous junk normally hung on it, as well as most of it's civility. Nothing left but what makes it go, stop and turn. A simple distillation of the primary "selling points" of the motorcycle, though I'm in no way referring to sales obviously.
A cafe racer was at it's origin, built to emulate the race machines of the day. This may have been done with cast off, less than race brad machines but the 'application of weight loss' and minimalism still served.
As for 'The Machine', I don't know how one would go about creating an absolute, set in stone definition. Perhaps it would be somewhat easier to raise up a standard bearer though, that embodies the idea. In my mind it's the Manx Norton.
A bike that's been stripped of all the superfluous junk normally hung on it, as well as most of it's civility. Nothing left but what makes it go, stop and turn. A simple distillation of the primary "selling points" of the motorcycle, though I'm in no way referring to sales obviously.
A cafe racer was at it's origin, built to emulate the race machines of the day. This may have been done with cast off, less than race brad machines but the 'application of weight loss' and minimalism still served.
As for 'The Machine', I don't know how one would go about creating an absolute, set in stone definition. Perhaps it would be somewhat easier to raise up a standard bearer though, that embodies the idea. In my mind it's the Manx Norton.
Good'un BC! You made me think of a trip to the Island with George. Nothing to do with the TT. George needed some parts for his Triumph. I'll post it in the tales thread as soon as I can figure out how to write with a cockney accent.
Swagger said:
Makr
I make my own rules
hahaha Great story BC.
Remindes me of a few years ago I used to be friends with the bartender at the ritzy restaurant up the street from me. All valet parking and expensive as hell. After a ride I would park my old BMW right on the front walk and go in for a few drinks that I never had to pay for. I loved all the comments from the couples waiting for their over-priced Bentlys as to the grubby motorcycle riding machinst who thought himself bold enough to just park on the front walk. good stuff for sure.
I had a '69 big block Mach1 in HS. One of those I wished I would have kept.
Remindes me of a few years ago I used to be friends with the bartender at the ritzy restaurant up the street from me. All valet parking and expensive as hell. After a ride I would park my old BMW right on the front walk and go in for a few drinks that I never had to pay for. I loved all the comments from the couples waiting for their over-priced Bentlys as to the grubby motorcycle riding machinst who thought himself bold enough to just park on the front walk. good stuff for sure.
I had a '69 big block Mach1 in HS. One of those I wished I would have kept.
RoadRash
Coast to Coast
Brilliant one, BC! I've always had a hard spot for people like that. Too many times, I was judged for merely having long hair back in the day, and immediately lumped in with the local druggies. These days, I reside in a somewhat comfortable tax bracket, yet still dress and present myself as I always have, so it's real fun when those that rush to cast dispersions are left with egg on their face.
joeyputt
The green flag sets me free
Brother Beachcomber I always enjoy reading your adventures!
On the what is a cafe racer question, for a classic definition I really love the classic style of your #1 and #2 descriptions. I love a really vintage looking machine that is stripped down to the bare essentials with dual rear shocks, spoke rims, drum brakes and the whole bit...however I also love the idea of a vintage engine and steel framed machine with modern racing suspension, rims, and brakes.
I guess for what I view as the classic definition of a cafe racer it would be #1 and #2 however I think the next trend wave will be the younger generation using modern suspension, rims, and brakes.
As much as I love the classic style my current cb550 build will be getting inverted forks, mag rims, an aluminum swingarm, and disc brakes.
On the what is a cafe racer question, for a classic definition I really love the classic style of your #1 and #2 descriptions. I love a really vintage looking machine that is stripped down to the bare essentials with dual rear shocks, spoke rims, drum brakes and the whole bit...however I also love the idea of a vintage engine and steel framed machine with modern racing suspension, rims, and brakes.
I guess for what I view as the classic definition of a cafe racer it would be #1 and #2 however I think the next trend wave will be the younger generation using modern suspension, rims, and brakes.
As much as I love the classic style my current cb550 build will be getting inverted forks, mag rims, an aluminum swingarm, and disc brakes.
I've always had a problem with modern suspension on "vintage" bikes. For me it just doesn't work. This one gave me nightmares. But then its not my build so we are free to do what we want.
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midnightcafe
Been Around the Block
Hoofhearted said:
Yes, we are free to kill ourselves if we want to. I've seen way too many vintage bikes with modern suspensions systems thrown on as an afterthought. "Oh, any modern suspension should outperform whatever originally came on that bike." WRONG. Consider adapting a front end off a sport bike built to radical suspension geometry and putting in under a heavier motorcycle. For every nice example of a resto-mod vintage bike with conventional USD forks, there are several "nightmare" rides like you have shared that probably handle dangerously. Honestly, I'd rather see a modified, period front end. Bike Exif just posted a bike feature on Sanctuary Motorcycles, and they seem to appreciate that virtue:
