1970's CB550 custom - Lazarus

dwysywd

Member
crazypj said:
There were plugs made for race motors 'back in the day' but there isn't a good way to fit a plug so it doesn't look crappy.
I guess it doesn’t really matter how it looks. I need it to function. I’m going to explore options this week.


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crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
A plug with o-rings is easy enough to make but ho0lding it in position is problem. A two piece plug as used in kick-start shaft hole is easiest but requires an engine strip to fit (although that is recommended anyway to remove the internal starter parts)
 

dwysywd

Member
crazypj said:
A plug with o-rings is easy enough to make but ho0lding it in position is problem. A two piece plug as used in kick-start shaft hole is easiest but requires an engine strip to fit (although that is recommended anyway to remove the internal starter parts)
Well what I’ve seen a lot of guy do is remove the starter guts and weld the shaft hole shut. Then it plugs the hole. Also makes a nifty spot to stuff a small tool kit. So there is that idea. I have 3 starters. I can spare one.

No plans to strip the motor and plug it from the inside. I have a spare motor. Maybe once this is running I can tinker with that one.


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irk miller

You've been mostly-dead all day.
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This is what I did on my CB750 chopper, which is essentially the same get-up. I machined a plug for both sides, with one side having the o ring, and threaded so they could be screwed together. You have to machine them with enough meat so that you can thread to top in order to mount the cover. The cover mounts to the frame of the starter motor. I simply removed the gears on the starter shaft, since all they do is engage a gear on the crank. I'll have to check my 550 motor I have in storage, but I think I'm telling you correctly. I installed my electronics in my starter housing, except for the reg/rec.







 

crazypj

Split personality, I fake being smart
I'll check but I'm pretty sure the 550 has the starter driving through primary chain instead of direct to crank so starter clutch is in middle of engine. That's what makes 400/550 harder to fit than 750
 

irk miller

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crazypj said:
I'll check but I'm pretty sure the 550 has the starter driving through primary chain instead of direct to crank so starter clutch is in middle of engine. That's what makes 400/550 harder to fit than 750
You're right. The motor itself is in the same location, but the starter is flipped. This is what this person did. I have no idea what complications, if any, would exist leaving everything in there but removing the guts of the motor.

 

dwysywd

Member
irk miller said:
This is what I did on my CB750 chopper, which is essentially the same get-up. I machined a plug for both sides, with one side having the o ring, and threaded so they could be screwed together. You have to machine them with enough meat so that you can thread to top in order to mount the cover. The cover mounts to the frame of the starter motor. I simply removed the gears on the starter shaft, since all they do is engage a gear on the crank. I'll have to check my 550 motor I have in storage, but I think I'm telling you correctly. I installed my electronics in my starter housing, except for the reg/rec.
This picture above is what I was planning to do. I don't think I "need" to remove the starter wheel inside for the exact reason you said, not going to hurt anything if I don't. As for case, I like the idea of hiding electronics inside of it. I thought I might use it as a tool kit holder, but I like the electronics spot better. @irkmiller, do you have picture of how you did yours? Did you have to insulate against heat?

Found these sites helpful while simplifying my wire harness. It came up when searching for the starter removal.
http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/wiring500.html
http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/simple_wiring_diagram/simple_wiring_diagram.jpg
 

irk miller

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dwysywd said:
This picture above is what I was planning to do. I don't think I "need" to remove the starter wheel inside for the exact reason you said, not going to hurt anything if I don't. As for case, I like the idea of hiding electronics inside of it. I thought I might use it as a tool kit holder, but I like the electronics spot better. @irkmiller, do you have picture of how you did yours? Did you have to insulate against heat?

Found these sites helpful while simplifying my wire harness. It came up when searching for the starter removal.
http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/wiring500.html
http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/simple_wiring_diagram/simple_wiring_diagram.jpg
No worries on heat so far. I'll try to remember to get a pic, but essentially I set up a bus bar for ground and a small, six slot fuse block for the power side. On the 750's there's a slot for starter wiring to come out the side of the compartment in the center of the motor, so I'm running all the wires through that hole.



If you look closely in this pic, you can see the reg/rec. I made a small bracket that floats it above the case to help keep it cool.



The link to that fender you asked about is <a href=https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-Motorcycle-Retro-Rear-Motorcycle-Fender-Mudguard-for-Vintage-Harley-BOB/173717968386?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D2d1f550ec95a4cb5a7633fda2c0b6845%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D173717968386%26itm%3D173717968386&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Af722a344-44c1-11e9-b32c-74dbd1806431%7Cparentrq%3A71ddaf981690ab66b3f7395bffecb2ad%7Ciid%3A1>here</a>.
 

dwysywd

Member
irk miller said:
No worries on heat so far. I'll try to remember to get a pic, but essentially I set up a bus bar for ground and a small, six slot fuse block for the power side. On the 750's there's a slot for starter wiring to come out the side of the compartment in the center of the motor, so I'm running all the wires through that hole.</a>
I love how that wire loom looks so clean. Yeah, picture would be amazing. I will pull apart the starter today and take a picture. My buddy down the street is a master welder. So, I am hoping to pop in with a 6 pack after work and see if he can tack it shut. I have a similar hole for the wire to come out of too. So, great idea.
 

dwysywd

Member
My buddy helped me weld up my aluminum end where the starter motor went through. He punched a 7/8” plug from 1/8” alum plate and then tig welded it in place. There is a rubber o-ring that goes on the end where it inserts into the case. I removed it to be sure it didn’t melt when Rob was welding it. And it would have. That sucker got hot.

This was a major PITA to disassemble. I had to heat up each screw with the torch for about 2 min before I could get it to break free. I had to use vice grip pliers to free them.

The long screws are 4.5” long or 110mm and they are a M5x.80 so I need to replace them cause phillips heads suck and I bent the old ones trying to get them out. Replacement studs will be hex head.

The guts of the starter Came out really easily. Pretty much shook the parts inside out. Had to use pliers to pull few pieces out. Next I plan to drill out the cable portion coming through the case. I’m thinking I’m going to use this to hide electronics in it.






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pidjones

Well-Known Member
They aren't Phillips head screws, they are JIS screws. Get a couple JIS screwdrivers or bits (I use Motion Pro 1/4" hex drive bits). You may still want to replace the screws, but with the correct drive bit you'll suffer less getting the old screws out.
 

dwysywd

Member
pidjones said:
They aren't Phillips head screws, they are JIS screws. Get a couple JIS screwdrivers or bits (I use Motion Pro 1/4" hex drive bits). You may still want to replace the screws, but with the correct drive bit you'll suffer less getting the old screws out.
Wow. That’s awesome. I had no idea. Thanks! I still may replace. But knowing there is a specific tool does make a difference.


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jordandogtown

Washed up Weekend Warrior
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I did not know that. I just always called them "those Phillips bits" and "those other Phillips bits". I looked up a comparison and it makes sense why the JIS bits work so much better
 

adventurco

Nick Ol' Eye
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The common JIS #2 screws also have a dimple on the head. A set of JIS screwdrivers was one of the most valuable tool purchases I've made since working on VJMs



 

CarbsAndCylinders

Careful With That Axe Eugene
I've read that Philips screws are designed so that the screw driver will strip the head before the threads will strip. This is why they are so annoyingly easy to strip.
 

scott s

Active Member
Can you go over what it took to fit the front end and wheel? What size are the NT650 forks?
You said fender ordered; what did you get? Doesn't the NT use a smaller front wheel?
 

dwysywd

Member
scott s said:
Can you go over what it took to fit the front end and wheel? What size are the NT650 forks?
You said fender ordered; what did you get? Doesn't the NT use a smaller front wheel?
Ok. I did this 15 years ago, so I’m going off memory here. But I took the NT650 front end and purchased a new bearing race set that matched my neck ID and the NT post OD. I don’t remember the sizes, sorry.

Then I took my old hub, I relaced, then put new bearings in it to fit the front NT650 axle. The rear was factory axle and hub but it got new bearings too.

Fender was for the rear. My original was all corroded. So I never got around to ordering or replacing the rear to now. I just ordered a shortened factory replacement. Follow the link above to see it. I will post pics when I get it. I’m not sure but think I am going flat black. It’s chrome right now.

When I did this conversion, not many people were fitting new tech to old tech. I was just looking for something different.


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scott s

Active Member
So, with a bearing swap the NT stem/triples fit the 550 neck?
And same with the 550 wheel? What about spacers for the front wheel?
 

dwysywd

Member
scott s said:
So, with a bearing swap the NT stem/triples fit the 550 neck?
And same with the 550 wheel? What about spacers for the front wheel?
Let me take a picture today but I’m pretty sure I just used a stainless steel spacer. I want to say it was pretty close. As for the stem, yes it all fit with new bearings.


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