A few words.

Well since you're throwing around words like "bullshit" I'll reply the best way I know how. Through analogy.\

Who do you see in a greater light...the man who drives by you in a rain storm while you are changing a tire, or the man who takes the time to stop and lend you a hand. Build threads, whether on DTT or other sites (notice I said a build thread SOMEWHERE, not just here), are designed not only as a chronicle of the events that it took to create a bike, but more so to show others who watch what might be the make or break point in another person's build. WE show what we are going through to allow other members how to avoid a problem that they are unavoidably going to run into in their own build. I have spent a lot of time here documenting everything that I do, and showing it in detail in order to allow the people here to learn from the trial. I feel like in doing so I have given back to the community that I see myself a part of. I respect everyone here who is taking the time to show me things that I have never thought of or run into before.

You contradict yourself by saying:

"so...someone who is a new contributor can't have a bike that is unanimously enjoyed on the boards and therefore elevated to BOTM status"

The key word here being "contributor". You can't be a contributor without contributing. This is not a shot at anyone in particular at all. I just choose to vote for the guys that choose to share their knowledge with me, because that is what makes us strong. We can all sit in our garages and ask for praise when the build is done, but it takes a different kind of person to take the time to share everything that they've gone through with other people. That defines a totally different character quality. It is about giving back what you take in. If you aren't willing to share, then that's fine, but it is a more selfish course of action than simply not doing it. We are all busy. We all live lives outside of the internet. Some of us however take the time to promote the thing that we love the most. In my opinion, those people deserve to be on the banner to represent us all to the massive amount of people who merely visit us from day to day. I have slept under the same roof as a lot of these guys on many occasions, and I know what type of blood flows through this internet script. I just want to see that strong life force live on in the pages of Do The Ton. Without that, we are nothing more than a giant commercial, and to a guy who doesn't watch TV, that is an enormous flaw.

Again, this is not a shot at anyone, it is just a plea to keep the roots planted deep. If you choose not to contribute, that is just fine, just don't expect to be chosen as the banner man in front of a group of guys that do. This is not an elitist or a pompous statement. I just don't believe in cheating the nature of the world by stating that the credit goes to the man who hasn't earned it.
 
Kanticoy said:
Well since you're throwing around words like "bullshit" I'll reply the best way I know how. Through analogy.\

Who do you see in a greater light...the man who drives by you in a rain storm while you are changing a tire, or the man who takes the time to stop and lend you a hand. Build threads, whether on DTT or other sites (notice I said a build thread SOMEWHERE, not just here), are designed not only as a chronicle of the events that it took to create a bike, but more so to show others who watch what might be the make or break point in another person's build. WE show what we are going through to allow other members how to avoid a problem that they are unavoidably going to run into in their own build. I have spent a lot of time here documenting everything that I do, and showing it in detail in order to allow the people here to learn from the trial. I feel like in doing so I have given back to the community that I see myself a part of. I respect everyone here who is taking the time to show me things that I have never thought of or run into before.

You contradict yourself by saying:

"so...someone who is a new contributor can't have a bike that is unanimously enjoyed on the boards and therefore elevated to BOTM status"

The key word here being "contributor". You can't be a contributor without contributing. This is not a shot at anyone in particular at all. I just choose to vote for the guys that choose to share their knowledge with me, because that is what makes us strong. We can all sit in our garages and ask for praise when the build is done, but it takes a different kind of person to take the time to share everything that they've gone through with other people. That defines a totally different character quality. It is about giving back what you take in. If you aren't willing to share, then that's fine, but it is a more selfish course of action than simply not doing it. We are all busy. We all live lives outside of the internet. Some of us however take the time to promote the thing that we love the most. In my opinion, those people deserve to be on the banner to represent us all to the massive amount of people who merely visit us from day to day. I have slept under the same roof as a lot of these guys on many occasions, and I know what type of blood flows through this internet script. I just want to see that strong life force live on in the pages of Do The Ton. Without that, we are nothing more than a giant commercial, and to a guy who doesn't watch TV, that is an enormous flaw.

Again, this is not a shot at anyone, it is just a plea to keep the roots planted deep. If you choose not to contribute, that is just fine, just don't expect to be chosen as the banner man in front of a group of guys that do. This is not an elitist or a pompous statement. I just don't believe in cheating the nature of the world by stating that the credit goes to the man who hasn't earned it.
Click to expand...

I'm quoting this because I don't want it to go away. I don't want it to be taken lightly. I want it to stay on the screen as long as possible. If someone still doesn't get it then I feel bad for them.

Very well said Kanticoy. Thank you for saying it!
 
Dirty Dan said:
I didn't contradict anything, a single post is a contribution to a site.

I'll agree to disagree. I'll give credit where it's due and I'll respect who I choose to respect.

Too many people swangin' on too many peoples dicks. I've got nothing more to say.
Click to expand...

No disrespect intended man. I just feel very strongly about keeping my little family alive and will fight to the death before watching it turn the way of a television show or a facebook popularity contest. I respect your opinion, and am only offering mine in return. That is democracy. Let people take both of our posts how they choose.
 
For sure man. I'm sorry, it's been kind of a rough week... In hindsight I kind of went apeshit for no reason... And I apologize.

I love this place to death, you're certainly one of the dudes that I've held (and still hold) quite a bit of respect for.

I'm with you, I'd hate to see this place go to shit, it's probably one of the only places I've ever visited (even if "visiting" means sitting in front of my computer) that has this many people that I feel are so very similar to me, who enjoy the things I enjoy and do what I like to do.

I can't wait for the chance I get to meet some of you guys in person, I feel like there's plenty of friendships to be made.

Again, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend anyone, that's the last thing I'd want to do.
 
Hoofhearted said:
Could I nominate Mike Hailwood's 250 Honda six for bike of the month? : - )
Click to expand...

I think we'd need a BOTU (Bike of the Universe) for that one.
 
friend or foe, be a part or the solution or a part of the problem. Either way theres something anyone can understand happening, and either way youre picking your own path. Like it, great. Dont like it, state your reasoning without being an ass. (That is honestly NOT directed at anyone specificly).
 
VonYinzer said:
friend or foe, be a part or the solution or a part of the problem. Either way theres something anyone can understand happening, and either way youre picking your own path. Like it, great. Dont like it, state your reasoning without being an ass. (That is honestly NOT directed at anyone specificly).
Click to expand...

Well said my friend.
 
Can.
Of.
Worms.

Dirty D I'm sorry to hear of your rough week....I think we all can identify. Your misfired(due of course to that rough week) rant does serve to lay illumination on something we touched on all too briefly with regard to the BOTM nomination process.

Speaking only for myself, I believe that there HAS to be guidelines set in place, with serious thought given to what exactly does constitute a 'forum contributor'. And no, one post most definitely does not make one a contributor."Hey look at my sweet bike!" yields no experiential value, no informative wealth what so ever.

At risk of being a cliquey bastard I propose a build thread on DTT, AND a 20 post minimum to be considered for nomination for BOTM. Perhaps that seems unfair, I'll happily take the heat for it. Kanticoy hit on it pretty well......that banner up top is the face of our little community here, the figurehead of the ship if you will. It's an unspoken but graphically clear message to all who visit us telling who we are and what we're about.
If we put something there that didn't come from this 'hive mind'.....even one of Kimura san's lovely machines we're saying to anyone listening "I wanna be like this....."
But if we put one of our own up there we say "This is who we are! Eat it if you don't like it!"

Don't know about you but I'm no wanna-be, I know what I want it to say..........
 
You didn't offend me buddy. Not at all. I promise you that I think no less of you. That was really why this thread was started, to put to rest a lot of my unease, and by posting up our feelings, it allows us all to do just that. I appreciate everything you said, and it makes me proud to see people saying what they mean. That is more important than so many other things. Thank you Dan.
 
Swagger said:
Can.
Of.
Worms.

Speaking only for myself, I believe that there HAS to be guidelines set in place, with serious thought given to what exactly does constitute a 'forum contributor'. And no, one post most definitely does not make one a contributor."Hey look at my sweet bike!" yields no experiential value, no informative wealth what so ever.

At risk of being a cliquey bastard I propose a build thread on DTT, AND a 20 post minimum to be considered for nomination for BOTM. Perhaps that seems unfair, I'll happily take the heat for it. Kanticoy hit on it pretty well......that banner up top is the face of our little community here, the figurehead of the ship if you will. It's an unspoken but graphically clear message to all who visit us telling who we are and what we're about.
If we put something there that didn't come from this 'hive mind'.....even one of Kimura san's lovely machines we're saying to anyone listening "I wanna be like this....."
But if we put one of our own up there we say "This is who we are! Eat it if you don't like it!"

Don't know about you but I'm no wanna-be, I know what I want it to say..........
Click to expand...

Well said.

I like that Tim and the rest of the admins are very egalitarian about the whole thing (how very Canadian of you! :) ) And they can choose to run the BOTM how they see fit. But I do think that it means more when it comes from the folks that are, at least, more than casually involved with the forum. That's not to say that you have to have 1154 posts to be involved or log in everyday, but as said a little presence is nice. I look at the BOTM as something to strive for. Thats not to say I built the bike with BOTM in mind, I didn't. But Its a nice validation/recognition of the work and that is quite satisfying.

It seems like most of us that have been here for a while (and there are plenty that have been here longer than I) feel similarly about guidelines for BOTM and it seems that most of the dissent to that comes from those logging in to nominate their own bikes and the like.

We'll probably be arguing this forever.

Anyway, I love this place!
 
I just spent a goodly amount of time reading this entire thread and would like to offer some feedback from a newbie to the site but not to bikes and cafe....First of all, as I said, I'm a newbie to this site although I've lurked about this and several other forums for several months, learning and absorbing ideas...trying to decide what bike I would like to start a build from. I have found a large variation in how people, esp. newbies are treated......some of the sites have a core clique that basically refuses to recognize any ideas other than their own or their toadies....others, like this site or 650Forum tend to be helpful and basically welcoming...even allowing for some of idiotic questions that are asked!
You have to realize that even for the most well intentioned newbies, putting forth ideas and opinions is not an easy task....even if you are quite familiar with the topic at hand. It's like coming to a new high school....you have to feel your way around until you figure out what's going on and who is sincere and who is not. That being said the point is that newbies must be encouraged and nurtured because, down the road, they will end up being the core group of this forum if it survives. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with weeding out the obvious assholes[I believe the current term is douches]but, as someone said in an earlier post, it has to be done without anger and name calling. When this happens, people new to the site and perhaps not knowing the full amount of the subject's douchedom could be offended and kept from joining....as someone else said you have to represent the forum well at all times.
Now to the main point of my post. I'm 60 years old and have been into bikes since I was 18. I have had many other interests during that time and have experienced what this forum and our "sport" are going through at least three times before. Folks, you would be wise to heed Kantikoy's warning! Whenever a hobby or interest suddenly takes off and grows rapidly, the core values and "fun" aspects of it are usually the first things to go. Think about it....look at small businesses that suddenly succeed, the first thing to go is communication and camaraderie, then the "good" people start to leave, and pretty soon quality has gone down the shitter and the douches are running the place!! I have seen this happen with grass roots motocross, metallic silhouette pistol shooting, and combat pistol. We were going along having fun with our friends and families, competitors would gladly lend parts to someone they would competing with in a few minutes, or help them fix their bike or gun. Then you get a write up or two in a national magazine about how great your rapidly growing sport is....one thing leads to another.....more and more people start showing for matches......suddenly everything is for r-e-a-l and helping anyone is out the window. It goes along like that for awhile.....and you wake up one day and find the douches are now in charge of your beloved hobby!
I don't want that to happen here and to the custom bike scene in general, but I am afraid, as Kantikoy so eloquently pointed out, the seeds of its destruction are already around.
I am sorry to be so long winded but reading this thread really brought back some memories. I think from reading this thread that there are enough of the "good guys" here to keep things going in the right direction....if you pull together.
By the way, I chose a '79 Yamaha XS650 standard to start my cafe build on......will be posting the start here soon!
Thanks to all!!
Phil[jackstraw650]
 
Hey new guy!! Go make me a sammich!
Bahahahaha!

All joking aside, I can appreciate your views and I think they really are inline with what's happening here. 'We' generally are pretty supportive of what a builder wants to do within their own vision. There will always be trolls that serve nothing but dissent, it's an unfortunate property of the internet. Anonymity breeds shallow courage; anyone can be a tough guy online and mess with people. I think if we do our best to approach every interaction as though we're doing so in person we'll continue to be ok.

You chose a good starter bike too! That 650 will take all sorts of mods and have loads of aftermarket support in place. Welcome to the fold mate!

Now....'bout that ham&cheese....... ;D
 
Speaking of Trolls, and malcontents... Im Mike, and I hate everyone. ;)

Honestly though, you make some great points, and hopefully we can steer clear of the BS and the "this is our site, not yours" crap.

Welcome to DTT, and Im looking forward to seeing some more non Honda cb350s (though I do love them so) being built here. Keep us posted! And Ill take a grilled cheese while you making us sandwiches. Hahahaha
 
Interesting post JS650. I watched a couple of episodes of that cafe racing tv show that a friend videoed for me. I think it showed up at a fortuitous time. Economy recession, etc. I can't see custom cafe shops popping up all over like the chopper craze. Plus cafes don't have the badass, three patch image of choppers.

There are a couple of cafe forums that already have that if you weren't here at the beginning you're not coming in now attitude. Most of what I have seen on them have nothing to do with motorcycling. One in particular, despite its name, doesn't want to know about the ton or even trying to go fast with Brit stuff. Thankfully DTT hasn't sunk to that level and I doubt it ever will. Two forums I am part of are very specific about what is allowed and not allowed. They are upfront about it and you post what is not allowed and its deleted. Plain and simple.

Being that I am ancient and have nothing left to prove (apart from the fact that I would love to be skilled enough to do a few hot laps on a speedway track). So if the douches arrive I'll just amble off. But I think the people here will let a douche know he's (or she's. Must be politically correct here.) being one. Welcome and I hope you stick around. Its not a bad place.
 
Hoof goes fast......don't believe that 'ancient' crap. He's just lulling you into complacency so when be blasts by in that nutjob side hack you'll shoot coke outta yer nose..
 
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