freaking hippies

biker_reject said:
I wondered what owners did with their (recalled) Toyotas? I mean, who would buy a used one now? How did your mom get rid of it? Just curious...
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I can tell you the one from the congressional hearing, the Lexus Es that the woman was crying about on national tv..... This is good...... They sold it privately to another family knowing of the issue. Never told the other family anything. The other family has had it for 80k miles or so and never had a problem with it.
 
biker_reject said:
I wondered what owners did with their (recalled) Toyotas? I mean, who would buy a used one now? How did your mom get rid of it? Just curious...
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Mom's got totaled when she got it stopped (jumped the ditch and bogged it down in a framer's field.
Its ecu is currently held by a 3rd party lab for testing to be used in the suit.

it's funny too.....if hte ecu fails it goes into "limp mode".....

I've had two ecu failures, one in a dodge and the other....gasp...in a 05 toyota corolla.
In both cases, while the failures rendered the cars more or less unusable, they were both fully functional otherwise ie; everything else running thru the ECU worked fine. The corolla as a matter of fact kept right on driving....it was the brakes that were the issue on that one. There's nothing to say that one section or more likely piece of code, couldn't fail and the rest keep right on going which is what it looks like to me. I wonder what the end finding will be?

What pisses me off about this whole mess though was the admission by one of the bigwigs that they were in fact aware of thie issue long before it came to jaundiced eye of the media and that they MADE MONEY from blaming the floormats (and other things). Bugs the shit out of me, even if he was falling on his sword later.
Sad for me, I loved my toyotas. I put almost 350,000 miles on my 81 celica and would have happily done more but the body started popping spot welds. The 85 truck I had was a good one too.
I'll never own another though.....
 
Toyota was the shit for years. I have several friends with Toyota trucks and cars. All driven till the wheels fell off. Oh wait they are still driving them. However, it looks like Toyota made a few bad choices and its catching up with them.
Now one of the lawyers that defended Toyota early on is stepping forward. One of the cases he worked on was where a 17 y/o girl had a stuck accelerator and is now paralized. Toyota settled out of court for millions. Lawyer is now saying that it was a cover up and that Toyota knew the computers were failing way back then. If that were my daughter I think I'd be hunting down Toyota executives and anyone other finger pointing ass holes with my cross bow.

Swagger so sorry to hear about your mother. Glad she is still with us.
 
Swagger,

I was simply pointing out that a normal working condition Prius' ECU would allow you to both shut the car off and shift into neutral. I posted those videos more to prove the point that the issue isn't based on a faulty throttle (as continuously stated by Toyota), and that it would have to be coding/ECU related.

Sorry to hear that your family had to experience this first hand. I am glad to hear that you mom is alright.
 
JustinLonghorn said:
Swagger,

I was simply pointing out that a normal working condition Prius' ECU would allow you to both shut the car off and shift into neutral. I posted those videos more to prove the point that the issue isn't based on a faulty throttle (as continuously stated by Toyota), and that it would have to be coding/ECU related.

Sorry to hear that your family had to experience this first hand. I am glad to hear that you mom is alright.
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No worries man, I'm right there with you. Wasn't jousting with you man....
Mom's good, was ok then just scared.....then pissed.
 
Whatever happened to the days when machines were machines?

My '87 mazda b2600 drives like it should and only does what I tell it, and that's how it should be. What's the deal with everything being so overengineered? What's wrong with using a key to start our vehicles and gear shifters that are directly connected to the transmission.

All these new concepts need to stay in the filing cabinets until all the bugs have been worked out.

More technology means more risk for accident, because computers do crash...and when they do, where does that leave the driver? .....speeding down the interstate going 110 mph screaming for their life.

Besides, i'd never want to own a vehicle I can't work on myself.
I love my mazda :D
 
Maybe we should only build cars in manual transmission so more people are forced to pay attention to whats going on.
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WHAT? Then how the hell am I going to order a pizza on my iPhone while listening to the directions on my sat-nav and drinking my Coke Zero? Harden the f*ck up modern society, indeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYRneHc

I drive a 1980 Chrysler Valiant as my everyday ride and love it to death. I do my own services and generally try and keep on top of things with it, the 850, everything else thats going on. Not too hard at all, and I completely agree with you on the not owning a vehicle I couldn't wrench on, Tristan.

- boingk
 
I find it particularly interesting that NOONE (liberal media) has mentioned regarding the fact that the recent recalls only apply to the American made models. No Japanese built vehicles are affected. Also, the vehicles that have had the accelerator pedal stick or be slow to return are extreme high mileage vehicles, that is ones with 150-200k miles and the pedals that have actually stuck or have been slow to return are manufactured by CTS of Elkhart Indiana. The Denso pedals are made in Japan and are not affected in the same way, those are only being trimmed along with floormat & carpet modifications to prevent them from being jammed. If you look at the 2 types of pedals side by side, the differences in construction are astounding. For the pivot point on the CTS pedals, they use brass bushings where as the Denso pedals use ball bearings, the CTS pedals use snap together type housings with thin aluminum cover plates for the electronics and the Denso pedals are screwed together. Just holding the 2 in your hands, it's easy to see how one could fail quiker.
Has anyone seen how sales of new Toyotas are doing? Up 50% last month. Toyota has stepped up & decided to take full responsibility for the recent issues and not to pass the blame onto the parts suppliers for their faulty product (Ford/Firestone), because they know that ultimately it IS their responsibility to make sure that every vehicle which bears the Toyota logo on the grille is as safe and reliable as it can possibly be.

My $.02
 
Why are you blaming the so-called liberal media? Shouldn't Toyota replace the pedals with the Denso units if they are so superior and if the company really is ensuring that they are fielding safe vehicles? I would think the design and R&D engineers are the ones to be scrutinized, don't you?
 
It's the liberal media and the UAW that are trying to strong arm Toyota because God forbid a foriegn car company outdoes an American manufacturer at their own game without unions. They were quick to jump on Firestone when Ford decided that dropping the air pressure in the tires of the Explorers was a good solution to the horrible ride quality. I guaran-damn-tee that if Toyota would have built plants in UAW territory, they wouldn't be getting scrutinized near as bad as they are. Why isn't the current president and the rest of his progressive left wing administation jumping down Chevy's throat with their power steering recall? Oh, that's right, Chevy is owned by Government Motors.
 
hrmmm, seems like some engineers at toyota don't know Murphy san... you've really gotta design for worst case scenario with things like that, seemed like the ecu should actually be controlled by a real electrical switch, would look the same in any case... even computers have a manual on/off switch somewhere...
 
rockcitycafe said:
hrmmm, seems like some engineers at toyota don't know Murphy san... you've really gotta design for worst case scenario with things like that, seemed like the ecu should actually be controlled by a real electrical switch, would look the same in any case... even computers have a manual on/off switch somewhere...
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Toyotech said:
It's the liberal media and the UAW that are trying to strong arm Toyota because God forbid a foriegn car company outdoes an American manufacturer at their own game without unions. They were quick to jump on Firestone when Ford decided that dropping the air pressure in the tires of the Explorers was a good solution to the horrible ride quality. I guaran-damn-tee that if Toyota would have built plants in UAW territory, they wouldn't be getting scrutinized near as bad as they are. Why isn't the current president and the rest of his progressive left wing administation jumping down Chevy's throat with their power steering recall? Oh, that's right, Chevy is owned by Government Motors.
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amen brother!
 
Toyotech said:
It's the liberal media and the UAW that are trying to strong arm Toyota because God forbid a foriegn car company outdoes an American manufacturer at their own game without unions. They were quick to jump on Firestone when Ford decided that dropping the air pressure in the tires of the Explorers was a good solution to the horrible ride quality. I guaran-damn-tee that if Toyota would have built plants in UAW territory, they wouldn't be getting scrutinized near as bad as they are. Why isn't the current president and the rest of his progressive left wing administation jumping down Chevy's throat with their power steering recall? Oh, that's right, Chevy is owned by Government Motors.
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I know this threatens your livelihood and everything, and you feel obligated to vigorously defend your company, but I gotta play devil's advocate just a bit and reiterate my question. If Toyota is indeed taking responsibility and attempting to insure that their vehicles are safe and reliable, then why don't they replace the faulty units with the (as you claim) superior Japanese made Denso pedals? I sounds like you're trying to direct the focus away from Toyota's ills and blame someone or something else, e.g. the big bad government, our President, Ford Motor Co., etc. This situation has nothing to do with political ideology, domestic mfgs. or global car sales. It has to do with serious safety issues which have killed the users of Toyota products! You rail against unions (and the left wing liberals, blah, blah, blah...), but your rhetoric is much like that of a union member. I know, I have family and friends who belong to various unions. I've heard the arguments.... Oh, and Chevy is owned by you and me and about 142 million other tax payers, not "the government".
 
biker_reject said:
I know this threatens your livelihood and everything, and you feel obligated to vigorously defend your company, but I gotta play devil's advocate just a bit and reiterate my question. If Toyota is indeed taking responsibility and attempting to insure that their vehicles are safe and reliable, then why don't they replace the faulty units with the (as you claim) superior Japanese made Denso pedals?
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The Denso pedal made in japan is for RHD not LHD cars, and will not fit. I suppose you could have Denso build all of the pedals, however there are issues with that-
>the cost of importing the pedals in a timely manner
>moving production of those pedals from Indiana would risk American jobs, and if its a UAW affiliated vendor (because oddly, while Toyota is non-union, its vendors and contractors can be union) then there is likely a provision that production CANNOT be moved.



biker_reject said:
I sounds like you're trying to direct the focus away from Toyota's ills and blame someone or something else, e.g. the big bad government, our President, Ford Motor Co., etc. This situation has nothing to do with political ideology, domestic mfgs. or global car sales. It has to do with serious safety issues which have killed the users of Toyota products! You rail against unions (and the left wing liberals, blah, blah, blah...), but your rhetoric is much like that of a union member. I know, I have family and friends who belong to various unions. I've heard the arguments.... Oh, and Chevy is owned by you and me and about 142 million other tax payers, not "the government".
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Just for the record, Ford and GM have had more recalls, and for that matter more safety oriented recalls than any other of their fellow auto company, it just doesnt get much press and many owners never know there is such a recall.

My own personal opinion regarding this is that Toyota has known of the issues with the ECU and fly-by-wire systems for some time, and has downplayed these while trying to develop a solution. This was probably not the right thing to do. Not that I care much, I drive a Mitsu EVO with zero traction control and a real throttle cable, and an ECU I have complete control over :)
 
Well, in such a critical situation, I would think that Toyota Japan would simply ship the proper Denso pedals. I wasn't even suggesting they be made here. It's just one part. I'm sure the Elkhart plant makes more than gas pedals? I am well aware of the domestic recalls as I have owned and driven Chevy, Pontiac, and now Ford. That is not pertinent to this discussion, however. I have nothing against Toyota, til now, that is. In fact, I was very close to purchasing a MR2 Spyder a few years ago. I thought my mother in law's convertible Solara was gorgeous, and my wife and I were considering a Venza as our next car. So, no prejudice here. Just questioning the other dude's argument.
 
biker_reject said:
Well, in such a critical situation, I would think that Toyota Japan would simply ship the proper Denso pedals. I wasn't even suggesting they be made here.
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The issue is the pedals will not fit- Right Hand Drive VS Left Hand Drive, the pedal assemblies do not interchange. Toyota Japan cant really do much to help Toyota USA except watch the flames.

The pedal assembly is not the issue, its the interface between the TCU, ABS, and ECU. Modern cars usually have at least 4 computers to make the things run, and any one of them can and will give issues, and they all have to work together. In the interest of the high-tech "safety" that traction control, abs, etc all bring we have actually decreased safety because drivers are so disconnected from whats going on around them and have little to no understanding of what is going on with thier car, a 3500lb weapon traveling at high speeds which is in theory under their direct control. The more we remove the driver, the human element from the control of what they are doing the worse it gets.
 
Toyota's are quality cars...when they don't go haywire and kill people. That's what I gather from this thread. Haha
 
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problem solved
 
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