Guzzi Cali Cafe - Build Thread
- Thread starter Bevelheadmhr
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snmavridis
Gettin my life together. One bolt. At a time.
I like it. I've always had a fondness for Italian styling.
CarbsAndCylinders
Careful With That Axe Eugene
snmavridis said:
+1
On a smaller scale...I was given a few panel washers recently, they're cheap now on ebay, these were anodised an awful pinky red colour.. yuk. I wanted them bare and polished, but rather than faffing about with fine wet and dry, I went the chemical route. 60p got me a 1kg bag of caustic soda, mix a tablespoon in some warm water, pop the washers in, and wait a few minutes. The result being the anodising has been magically removed, just need a quick polish and they're ready to go on the bike..
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K
Kamn
Guest
nice work
That seat is going to look great with that tank when you get it all mounted up
That seat is going to look great with that tank when you get it all mounted up
put the seat on the bike, just sitting on blocks of wood for now. I'll need to fix a steel bracket to the underside of the seat, which is below the upholstery so I cant just bolt it on, while rivets in fibreglass doesn't seem like a good idea. I've read the epoxy adhesive (JB Weld?) can be used and will be strong enough, but I'm not sure. Any experience of using these types of Epoxy adhesives when gluing metal to fibreglass?
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Tune-A-Fish
BOTM LOSER Proudly Deplorable
Im no expert but I would look into epoxy resin or the same resin used to make the pan and glass over the brackets, drill them so the resin can bond better like these airtech bond in mounting tabs:
Don't use JB weld. Those studs Tune linked would be handy. Any 2 part epoxy will work, I would stay away from most of the stuff you get at a hardware store as it generally sets up too fast to be workable. I use West System 105 Resin and 206 Hardener, from any West Marine or boat store. You MAY be able to find a small 'boat repair kit' that has small amounts of resin/hardner since you won't need much. If you can find one of the west system boat repair kits, it will have a few squares of cloth, as well as WS 406 filler, which you can stir into the epoxy mix and it thickens it up for a much stronger bond.
Here's a link to that kit: http://www.amazon.com/West-System-105K-Fiberglass-Repair/dp/B007D2QV5Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463013003&sr=8-1&keywords=west+system+repair+kit
It may not be enough epoxy, but again it depends on how you configure your mounts.
I would recommend getting a few small squares of cloth as well, and cutting around the stud for extra rigidity if you're going to mount to the bottom side of the seat pan. If you're drilling through and mounting from the top down, you won't need to worry about it as much.
Sand the bottom of the seat where you will be mounting until it is rough everywhere that epoxy will contact. Glossy surfaces are bad. Use tape to get the position of the studs before you epoxy them in. I usually tape the studs off before epoxying cuz its a PITA to remove.
Here's a link to that kit: http://www.amazon.com/West-System-105K-Fiberglass-Repair/dp/B007D2QV5Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463013003&sr=8-1&keywords=west+system+repair+kit
It may not be enough epoxy, but again it depends on how you configure your mounts.
I would recommend getting a few small squares of cloth as well, and cutting around the stud for extra rigidity if you're going to mount to the bottom side of the seat pan. If you're drilling through and mounting from the top down, you won't need to worry about it as much.
Sand the bottom of the seat where you will be mounting until it is rough everywhere that epoxy will contact. Glossy surfaces are bad. Use tape to get the position of the studs before you epoxy them in. I usually tape the studs off before epoxying cuz its a PITA to remove.
Thanks for our replies. after thinking about various options, and the need for the mounts to be adjustable so I can get the height just right, I decided to forego the eboxy option, and stick with old fashioned nuts and bolts.
But first I had to sort out the front mount (of three.. front, middle and back), these needed to consist of two rods which would slot into the two tubes already fixed to the base of the seat. Its made from two stainless rods and a thick stainless base plate, so no need to worry about paint or corrosion. Its bolted in turn to the top bracket of the stainless electrics tray, so if needed it can be raised easily enough..
But first I had to sort out the front mount (of three.. front, middle and back), these needed to consist of two rods which would slot into the two tubes already fixed to the base of the seat. Its made from two stainless rods and a thick stainless base plate, so no need to worry about paint or corrosion. Its bolted in turn to the top bracket of the stainless electrics tray, so if needed it can be raised easily enough..
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While the middle mount, is just a support, it doesn't need to be fixed to the seat, which makes life much easier. I haven't finished it yet, it consists of two simple alloy spacers and an alloy plate on top which will be bolted down to the middle frame bracket with a couple of countersunk bolts. I just need to add a washer or two to raise the support plate as needed.. well that's the plan, oh and I'll stick some neoprene to the alloy plate to cushion the fibreglass base too.
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Finally to the rear mount, which is the main support for the seat, the only mounting point for which is two bolts which are just off vertical and currently hold the top of the splash guard to the frame.
The problem is that I cant drill the seat base and use nuts and bolts where I want as the seat cover sits above it, so what to do?
Again it needs to be adjustable (both forward and backward and up and down), while not putting too much stress in one part of the seat base... don't want to risk the fibreglass cracking / failing..
The problem is that I cant drill the seat base and use nuts and bolts where I want as the seat cover sits above it, so what to do?
Again it needs to be adjustable (both forward and backward and up and down), while not putting too much stress in one part of the seat base... don't want to risk the fibreglass cracking / failing..
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This is the solution I came up with, along with help from Geoff The Welder... who did all the hard work..
Cut and shape a piece of stainless plate...
Then bend it to follow the contours of the seat base
Before welding in two M8 threaded bars
Then drilled four holes through both the plate and the seat base, below the seat hump, which I can access via the zipped seat back, and so get a spanner in there to bolt everything up nicely.
This leaves me to make one more piece, which will connect the two threaded bars to the frame mount. That had to wait until everything else is made and I can measure what's needed accurately.
Cut and shape a piece of stainless plate...
Then bend it to follow the contours of the seat base
Before welding in two M8 threaded bars
Then drilled four holes through both the plate and the seat base, below the seat hump, which I can access via the zipped seat back, and so get a spanner in there to bolt everything up nicely.
This leaves me to make one more piece, which will connect the two threaded bars to the frame mount. That had to wait until everything else is made and I can measure what's needed accurately.
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I prefer to swap favours with folks I know rather than pay hard cash for stuff if possible, last week I was asked to build a HD wheel for the bloke who is machining my wheel spindles, sounds like a fair swap to me.. The hub had been rechromed, with new spokes and rim to use. Took me an evening while watching telly, got to use my wheel stand again, really pleased with it, makes truing up the wheel so easy..
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The seat is finally fitted, it could've been a mm or two lower to the frame rails, but its already too low for comfort with the rearsets, so for now its as low as I dare make it. It'll be easy enough to raise it if needed when I finally get to test ride it.
The parts I took for chroming should be ready next week, if the 4 week lead time they gave me is accurate, while there are a couple of parts I designed that are waiting to be machined, they probably wont be done for another few weeks. I was promised my stainless spindles would be finished next week too, for now just got to wait.
The next big expenses will be the new alloy rims and spokes, along with stainless Lemans replica 'silencers', and finally the paintwork, all that will have to wait a month too.
The parts I took for chroming should be ready next week, if the 4 week lead time they gave me is accurate, while there are a couple of parts I designed that are waiting to be machined, they probably wont be done for another few weeks. I was promised my stainless spindles would be finished next week too, for now just got to wait.
The next big expenses will be the new alloy rims and spokes, along with stainless Lemans replica 'silencers', and finally the paintwork, all that will have to wait a month too.
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Perter said:
The seat hump has a fibreglass base, just like the original. its quite a small 'glove box', just big enough for a pair of gloves in fact, and not much more. Yes the stainless plate we made bolts to the underside of this glove box, though its mounting bolts to the frame are much further forward which is where it needs to be to support the weight of the rider.
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Looking at options for a battery, I couldn't understand why old Guzzis like mine needed such a huge battery?
The answer was simple really, the first V7s had their electrical parts (starter, alternator, ignition) spec'ed or taken from the Fiat 500/600 models. And the battery out of the V7 was the same as in the Fiat 500, which was widely available all over Italy. The early V7 wasn't primarily intended for public use, but for the national motor-pool. Especially for police and military usage and as such as many parts that could be used on multiple kinds of vehicles were a good thing. That said, if you want to buy cheap points or condensers for your Guzzi in Italy (even nowadays), you go to a Fiat dealer and tell them about your old Fiat Panda 45 base-model. Even the distributor cap is the same.
Looking at Lithium battery options for the bike, the cold cranking amps figure was the important factor for me, since I wanted the bike to turn over easily and I wasn't planning on adding extra lights or other bells and whistles.
To calculate CCA (approx) for a modern lead acid battery you multiply the Amp/hour capacity by 15.... ie 20AH x 15 = 300CCA
But Lithium batteries are more efficient, so to calculate their CCA you multiply Amp/hour by 50......... ie 20AH x 50 = 1000CCA
So (in theory) you can fit a Lithium battery a third of the A/H capacity of the original Lead acid battery fitted to a bike, though in practice Lithium batteries aren't quite that efficient.
With that in mind, I had a look at the Ballistic website (already got one of these on my Norley, it works well).. they recommend two options
1) Evo2 16 cell with a CCA = 480 $229 (over £200 here)
2) Evo3 with a CCA = 720 ($400 !)
My local bike shop can do me a good deal on Lithium batteries made by Shido (no never heard of them either), one of their selling points is that they are a direct replacement for an OE battery, ie the same size, not so good for me. The Shido catalogue recommends a model with over 600 CCA (cold cranking amps) this is a huge number for any bike, while costing £300.
Ok, well that's too much, what about a good old fashioned lead acid battery, there must be some that are a bit smaller than the originals..
Motobatt make a nice 32AH, 390CCA battery which is only £80, so that's a possibility, but for standard batteries I tend to go with Yuasa, with their 12 month warranty.
The Yuasa site lists two options for the Guzzi, a high tech 31AH, 400CCA model listed at £206, and a basic 30AH, CCA 180 model for £106.
Hang on, if Yuasa recommend a battery with 'only' a CCA of 180, why on earth do I need one twice or three times the power? I reckon I don't, so working from the CCA, a smaller Lithium battery with say, 10AH capacity should do the job, as long as its CCA was over 180.
Normally it wouldn't matter that much if I got it wrong, but there's so little room on the bike to fit a battery without it looking crap, that it'll have to be squeezed under the gearbox. Which in turn will mean making a stainless battery box, mounts and making the wiring loom to suite. If after all that the Lithium battery wont start the bike, I'll be a tad annoyed.
I collected a 12A/H Shido battery today, with CCA of 290 which should be more than enough to turn the engine over easily. It could be fitted to the splash plate, or less conveniently below the gearbox. When its on its wheels and the exhaust fitted, I'll be able to see how much room there is for the latter option.
The answer was simple really, the first V7s had their electrical parts (starter, alternator, ignition) spec'ed or taken from the Fiat 500/600 models. And the battery out of the V7 was the same as in the Fiat 500, which was widely available all over Italy. The early V7 wasn't primarily intended for public use, but for the national motor-pool. Especially for police and military usage and as such as many parts that could be used on multiple kinds of vehicles were a good thing. That said, if you want to buy cheap points or condensers for your Guzzi in Italy (even nowadays), you go to a Fiat dealer and tell them about your old Fiat Panda 45 base-model. Even the distributor cap is the same.
Looking at Lithium battery options for the bike, the cold cranking amps figure was the important factor for me, since I wanted the bike to turn over easily and I wasn't planning on adding extra lights or other bells and whistles.
To calculate CCA (approx) for a modern lead acid battery you multiply the Amp/hour capacity by 15.... ie 20AH x 15 = 300CCA
But Lithium batteries are more efficient, so to calculate their CCA you multiply Amp/hour by 50......... ie 20AH x 50 = 1000CCA
So (in theory) you can fit a Lithium battery a third of the A/H capacity of the original Lead acid battery fitted to a bike, though in practice Lithium batteries aren't quite that efficient.
With that in mind, I had a look at the Ballistic website (already got one of these on my Norley, it works well).. they recommend two options
1) Evo2 16 cell with a CCA = 480 $229 (over £200 here)
2) Evo3 with a CCA = 720 ($400 !)
My local bike shop can do me a good deal on Lithium batteries made by Shido (no never heard of them either), one of their selling points is that they are a direct replacement for an OE battery, ie the same size, not so good for me. The Shido catalogue recommends a model with over 600 CCA (cold cranking amps) this is a huge number for any bike, while costing £300.
Ok, well that's too much, what about a good old fashioned lead acid battery, there must be some that are a bit smaller than the originals..
Motobatt make a nice 32AH, 390CCA battery which is only £80, so that's a possibility, but for standard batteries I tend to go with Yuasa, with their 12 month warranty.
The Yuasa site lists two options for the Guzzi, a high tech 31AH, 400CCA model listed at £206, and a basic 30AH, CCA 180 model for £106.
Hang on, if Yuasa recommend a battery with 'only' a CCA of 180, why on earth do I need one twice or three times the power? I reckon I don't, so working from the CCA, a smaller Lithium battery with say, 10AH capacity should do the job, as long as its CCA was over 180.
Normally it wouldn't matter that much if I got it wrong, but there's so little room on the bike to fit a battery without it looking crap, that it'll have to be squeezed under the gearbox. Which in turn will mean making a stainless battery box, mounts and making the wiring loom to suite. If after all that the Lithium battery wont start the bike, I'll be a tad annoyed.
I collected a 12A/H Shido battery today, with CCA of 290 which should be more than enough to turn the engine over easily. It could be fitted to the splash plate, or less conveniently below the gearbox. When its on its wheels and the exhaust fitted, I'll be able to see how much room there is for the latter option.
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Off topic, but today we were drinking tea in Jeff's workshop, when I had the bright idea of making a vid of the our drag bike project which I mentioned awhile ago, with Jeff giving a walk through of the bike. Its built from spare parts, unwanted and take off parts that have built up over the years, I call it the 'Spares Bike'. This is our first and probably last attempt lol....
What do you think??
https://youtu.be/fKOkL4WEUYs
What do you think??
https://youtu.be/fKOkL4WEUYs
That is awesome. Skills.
Filmed a walk around the bike today and a quick look at the other couple of bikes in my garage, probably missed a few things, but doesn't really matter...
https://youtu.be/AaYPYpQhGE4
https://youtu.be/AaYPYpQhGE4
