Living Room Build - Notes on taps/dies

Fox

I've still got those patches...
Re: Living Room Build

Hehe, it's these unexpected posts that remind me I have this thread.

My Dad and I spent about 4 hours trying to get the CL started this weekend. I gerry-rigged my new ignition coils (Read:Zipties), but it was all to no avail. We had a strong spark, good compression, and fuel in the bowls (Even sprayed staring ether directly into the cylinder and into the carbs. Like I said, no dice.

I'm thinking it's timing, but who really knows. We'll be doing a thorough going over sometime soon (hopefully). I just want this thing to run to be honest. Tough to stay motivated when I work all weekend and get no results, and when the bike is 45 minutes away. Stick with me, I'll get it. Just takes more time now. That's all for now!
 

Fox

I've still got those patches...
Re: Living Room Build

Hello everybody,

Been a while. Hope you are all well and your bikes are even better.

About a month out from graduating from college which means I have a good bit of time now and will have even more after May 10, so I figured I'd get back in the swing of things and see if I can't get this thing started and road worthy.

It's hard to remember everything that was going on way back when, but from what I recall, I ran into issues with screw breaking in my engine. I haven't looked again because I was just getting my work bench set up to start working again today, but I remember need to buy a tap/dye set before everything slowed down on the project. So, searching craiglsit for one of those now.

Will post more as more things get done. Just a quick one to say I'm back.
 

Fox

I've still got those patches...
Re: Living Room Build

So rethreading is proving to a bit of a challenge as most places around here don't have the dies that I need. I got taps though and have been working, thought I'd post a few things I'd learned, might be useful for anyone out there looking to do some rethreading...

1. You're best bet if you want to start working is to buy a kit and start building from there. I tried to buy piecemeal, but found that I got mixed up with what exactly is the right thread, and does this tap actually fit what I've got... Not something you want to be thinking as you grind off metal inside your engine. A set makes it nice and easy to know what you've got, and if you find you need more taps, you can always add later. I just ordered this one. I'll post some pictures and notes on quality when it comes in.

2. If that price tag is a bit scary, you can get by without buying T-handles and all that and just use an adjustable wrench. Not as easy when the engine is in the frame, but it does alright.

3. Put a few drops of oil in the hole or on the bolt when you're rethreading. Helps make things turn smoother and makes the metal shavings stick to the tap/die better so they're not staying in your engine.

4. Don't turn the tap ALL the way down on the first go around. Give the tap a half turn and then backtrack. Imagine on a clock. Go from 12 to 6, then back to 12. Return to 6, turn to 12, back to 6. And so on.

5. If you sand blast your engine YOU MUST TAP YOUR HOLES!!!! Someone told me to do this when I was asking about blasting my engine block and I didn't listen and now I have a broken bolt in my head because of it. The amount of crud I've pulled out of some of these holes is pretty incredible. No wonder the bolts wouldn't turn...

6. Go slow.

7. Make sure your tap is straight when you start it. It should go in with a little resistance, but just make sure you've got it on right. I was worried about messing this up, but most times the tap sort of found it's way.

8. CL360 needs a 10x1.25 for the 8 bolts on the head and a 6mmx1.00 for the 6 other bolts, for anyone out there wondering. 10mm and 6mm are a pretty common bolt on this and many other bikes, so they're not bad to have around.

That's all I've got at the moment. Happy to answer questions if anyone has em.
 

SONICJK

Reminds me of...me No, I'm sure of it. I hate him
Price tag doesn't need to be scary, you can buy a cheap set for use in aluminum up front and then add good ones as you go to tap into steel. I have had good luck with cheap taps and dies, you just have to be careful not to break them off in the hole haha.
As for sandblasting, this is true. Your best bet is to get a dental pick and loosen up the packed in sand and then vacuum it out, repeat this a few times and then tap. If its packed in there the tap isnt going to do any good.
 

Fox

I've still got those patches...
SONIC. said:
Price tag doesn't need to be scary, you can buy a cheap set for use in aluminum up front and then add good ones as you go to tap into steel. I have had good luck with cheap taps and dies, you just have to be careful not to break them off in the hole haha.
As for sandblasting, this is true. Your best bet is to get a dental pick and loosen up the packed in sand and then vacuum it out, repeat this a few times and then tap. If its packed in there the tap isnt going to do any good.
Yeah, that's a way to go about it. I saw quite a few 40 pc. sets for $35ish. Thought about it, but I just prefer to get good stuff up front that way I don't got to worry about it later.

A few more tips on tapping,

9. A toothbrush works wonders for cleaning off the goopy crap when you pull the tap out.

10. After you've run the tap through once to set the threads, reapply oil and run it though again to get anything else from the hole. Repeat until tap comes out clean.

and a photo to show you some of the nasty stuff that comes out of your engine...
 

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fresh_c

Member
Re: Living Room Build

Fox said:
2. If that price tag is a bit scary, you can get by without buying T-handles and all that and just use an adjustable wrench. Not as easy when the engine is in the frame, but it does alright.

5. If you sand blast your engine YOU MUST TAP YOUR HOLES!!!! Someone told me to do this when I was asking about blasting my engine block and I didn't listen and now I have a broken bolt in my head because of it. The amount of crud I've pulled out of some of these holes is pretty incredible. No wonder the bolts wouldn't turn...
Taps in particular are not somewhere to be cheap. If you can't afford a set, buy the sizes you need as you need them. Buy American. Most of what you wrote is spot on, but there are a couple points I don't agree with.

#2 - Not a good idea to use an adjustable wrench since it side loads the tap and WILL break smaller taps. T-handles are cheap and essential to properly turning the tap.

#5 If you are working with holes that are already tapped, you should be using a tap make specifically for rethreading. A standard tap will remove material from the threads, causing weaker holes, but a rethreading tap restores the threads without removing material.

I'll add #11, do it right the first time because removing a broken tap is worse than slamming you hand in the car door.
 

xb33bsa

New Member
Re: Living Room Build

fresh_c said:
Taps in particular are not somewhere to be cheap. If you can't afford a set, buy the sizes you need as you need them. Buy American. Most of what you wrote is spot on, but there are a couple points I don't agree with.

#2 - Not a good idea to use an adjustable wrench since it side loads the tap and WILL break smaller taps. T-handles are cheap and essential to properly turning the tap.

#5 If you are working with holes that are already tapped, you should be using a tap make specifically for rethreading. A standard tap will remove material from the threads, causing weaker holes, but a rethreading tap restores the threads without removing material.

I'll add #11, do it right the first time because removing a broken tap is worse than slamming you hand in the car door.
well said
and if you must sand/bead/media blast any parts with threaded holes just plug them with some spare screws/bolts use some wax to seal the threads when doing so
to sand blast something and just fill the unprotected threaded holes with gritty media , is just silly
same goes for any oil passages seal em up first
 

Fox

I've still got those patches...
fresh_c said:
Taps in particular are not somewhere to be cheap. If you can't afford a set, buy the sizes you need as you need them. Buy American. Most of what you wrote is spot on, but there are a couple points I don't agree with.

#2 - Not a good idea to use an adjustable wrench since it side loads the tap and WILL break smaller taps. T-handles are cheap and essential to properly turning the tap.

#5 If you are working with holes that are already tapped, you should be using a tap make specifically for rethreading. A standard tap will remove material from the threads, causing weaker holes, but a rethreading tap restores the threads without removing material.

I'll add #11, do it right the first time because removing a broken tap is worse than slamming you hand in the car door.
Good points. Always good to have the right tools for the job. And thanks for the tip on taps. Are there any ways to differentiate between the two?

xb33bsa said:
well said
and if you must sand/bead/media blast any parts with threaded holes just plug them with some spare screws/bolts use some wax to seal the threads when doing so
to sand blast something and just fill the unprotected threaded holes with gritty media , is just silly
same goes for any oil passages seal em up first
Yeah, I was wanting to mention that. Someone also recommended that to me, but of course, I didn't listen. I think I put paper towel in there, but from what I remember (it was about 2 years ago) they blew out. So, to everyone thinking of media blasting, plug them holes!

cb400f caferacer said:
Great work man! i wish my gf would let me build it in the house! keep it up!
Haha! Yeah, that was a trip. Still can't believe I did that. I've got a garage now, and it's really nice.
 

fresh_c

Member
Fox said:
Good points. Always good to have the right tools for the job. And thanks for the tip on taps. Are there any ways to differentiate between the two?
This video does a pretty good job explaining the difference. As a note, there are very similar kits offered from Snap-On, Craftsman, and MAC, but the actual manufacturer of the kit is Kastar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q41yt-PKJw
 

Fox

I've still got those patches...
fresh_c said:
This video does a pretty good job explaining the difference. As a note, there are very similar kits offered from Snap-On, Craftsman, and MAC, but the actual manufacturer of the kit is Kastar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q41yt-PKJw
Well, shit. How big of a deal is this really? I've already cut threads with a non rethreading tap. And the set I just got in is the wrong kind.

Here's a link for a Craftsman rethreading kit for anyone coming later...
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-40-pc-tap-and-die-set-master/p-00952105000P
 

xb33bsa

New Member
to clean dirty threads i just make my own chaser/cleaner
as stated using a tap for cleaning threads is not a good idear because of the danger of oversizing the threads
what i do is just use a very good or new high grade bolt/screw then file just one deep groove in it at the tip like a tap has
then power wire wheel it to remove any burs and to slightly "dull" it so it really won't cut metal but it will clean out dirty threads handily, use some light oil
i have been using this method for decades works a treat
 

Fox

I've still got those patches...
Cool. Thank you both for your help.

I'll try cutting out a bolt and using that. Will post results.
 
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