Nannos XS Triple Sidecar

der_nanno

Faster!
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

Legal work will probably take another 3 to 4 weeks until I can have it registered in my name... and from then onwards we shall see. Carbs will need a lot more fine-tuning etc.
 

der_nanno

Faster!
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

Some more pictures of both my XS Triple Sidecar and the Tractor (my everyday TR1):





More on the matter on my blog:
http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at/2017/08/legalize-it-xs-triple-sidecar-and-tr1.html
 

spotty

Vmax...why,yes i think i will
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

does that hammer meet TUV approval?

looking good though you may find speed humps a challenge with that car jack lodged underneath
 

der_nanno

Faster!
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

spotty said:
does that hammer meet TUV approval?
Absolutely! It's a German Gedore-brand hammer and yes, it actually bears a TÜV-seal, for being compliant with all sorts of German health & safety laws... :eek:
 

der_nanno

Faster!
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

Couple of updates on my sidecar-build:

The steering damper is done (but I haven't gone through the photos as of yet), new brake pads in the front, the ones in there must have slipped through as they probably were the stock ones and completely mucky and greasy, upgraded the fusebox to modern standard automotive blade-fuses (ever tried to buy glass-fuses in the middle of the night at a petrol station... Nah, not on my watch!) and knocked up an adapter to use a cheap breather filter, which of course came with the completely wrong connector.





More here (as usual):

http://greasygreg.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-xs-triple-sidecar-fusebox.html
 

der_nanno

Faster!
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

Well, it's registered and all went rather smoothly (by Austrian beaurocracy-standards). From here onwards there's quite a few mods to be made, some really minor like swapping out all the instrument lights and the mandatory position lights to LED-lights to save some electricity to fitting the louder muffler tip (already done) and doing some re-jetting etc.

beachcomber said:
THERE'S ALWAYS THAT SPARE M45 GREG ................................
Yup, there is. But from a legal point of view a sidecar is hairy enough already ;-)
(I can't deny that the thought hasn't already crossed my mind, but the M45 is a bit big for a triple... Running it in a semi-sensible way would instantly put me somewhere around 7 to 10psi of boost, which isn't too shabby.)
 

der_nanno

Faster!
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

Well that M45 won't happen, but the carb-fairy has put a set of RS33 flatslides in the mail for me and they are currently travelling over the big pond. The amount of ooooomph gained by the VM36s over a standard Mikuni setup was almost disturbing, but still all the cables under the tank might be well tolerable for a Triple racer, but as the sidecar is going to be my main means of transport during the winter months, the thought of carrying 4 spare cables in the sidecar for the throttle alone has put me off a little (and then there's another 4 cables for the choke...) Other things that have come up in the first few days of riding: Pushing around a 350kg (that's like 800 pounds) lump with a flat battery is a tad annoying, especially when you're pushing for 1.5 miles until you're home. So every possible bulb will be replaced with LED bulbs as the position lights alone draw a hefty 45 watts. The starter has been overhauled (cleaned and greased, brushes were still good) and generally a bit of riding around has been done and was enjoyed A LOT. The bigger sidecar also means it is a full substitute for the carrying capacity of my car, which is a heaven's sent.

Sorry for the long text and lack of pix, but there's not overly much to show at the moment and you guys do know what light bulb looks like, right? ;-)
 

der_nanno

Faster!
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

Here's another blog post on what has happened up to the registration, sorry for lagging behind so much, but there's the end of season work in my shop to keep me busy and dialing in the sidecar has some of its very own challenges.

http://greasygreg.blogspot.com/2017/09/the-xs-triple-sidecar-give-me-gd-dmn.html

 

der_nanno

Faster!
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

After registering the bike a lot of stuff had to be changed out immediately as it simply wouldn't work like that in a real world. I mean, let's be honest... I want to hear my bike.



More pix and more reading:
http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at/2017/09/the-xs-triple-sidecar-post-registration.html
 

der_nanno

Faster!
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

Now that the VM36es are working as they should, I was able to put the Hitachi carbs back on the bike I borrowed them from and also took some time to do a bit of cosmetics...



More pix are here on the blog:
http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at/2017/09/the-other-xs-triple-sidecar-final.html

... and yes this fine steed is for sale, but to be fair probably only interesting for members from Austria or Germany.
 

der_nanno

Faster!
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

As you might have noticed by the lack of posts, the sidecar is starting to behave as it should, still some minor (and major) maintenance was due recently.

First was to dial in the ignition and more importantly lube the ignition advancer (remember the engine of my sidecar had been parked for the last ten years or so) as it would occasionally get stuck. Which obviously had happened when the p.o. had dialed in the ignition as it was set in the middle between min and max. advance.



More pix of that here: http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at/2017/09/the-xs-triple-sidecar-ignition.html

And the second mod was a mix of performance and comfort-mod. As nice as it is to have a sidecar brake, if it gets into the way of your boot, it could be the second nicest thing in the world, but it's gotta go. (And get modified.)



For now, I've removed it entirely as I am (from past experience) pretty convinced, that three disk brakes are more than sufficient to stop the bike in a reasonable distance. Interestingly enough, by removing the brake caliper from the sidecar axle, the reduced weight has made the sidecar climb a bit again in sharp right handers, which is something I quite fondly remember from my old XS-Triple sidecar and was wondering, why this one didn't do it.

More pics here: http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at/2017/09/the-xs-triple-sidecar-removing-sidecar.html

Unfortunately for you, there's not much going to happen with this one in the upcoming weeks, as even though the flatslide carbs have arrived, I am also into building my new and (even more) hopped up daily driver TR1-engine and that's where I am dedicating my workshop-time at the moment. Plus the flatslide-carbs are by no means are straight fit, so they will require quite a bit of machining to make them fit and that's something I don't have the time for at the moment.
 

der_nanno

Faster!
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

Ever wondered, why nobody fits these snowmobile carbs onto a Yamaha XS-Triple? Well, I've decided to make myself a little Easter-present and finally build (i.e. modify) those flatslide carbs, which I bought nearly seven years ago.

Now, why do you buy a set of flatslide carbs and don't install them? Simple really, they don't fit and after looking at them with the "trained engineer's eye", I decided that at the very most I could squeeze them together an extra three of four mm between each carb, which was nowhere near the over twenty five that were necessary. But I guess I am one heck of a stubborn b*st*rd and I have the tools in my workshop to make the parts obey my bidding... ;D



So I started by cutting off those fuel-hose pipes only to discover that this was nice, but still nowhere near close enough. After that I put them on my drill-press and drilled through from the other side, as luckily all the carb body castings are identical they are just tapped/drilled to be either a left- or right-hand carb. I did this, because I worked out, that the only way to make them fit would be to move the fuel-inlets on the outer carbs to the outside in order to have enough room to fit an inlet to the middle carb.



So the carb-bodies were put on the mill and the cast noses milled down. Unfortunately after milling I discovered that there simply wasn't enough meat on those carb bodies, to cut an M8x1.00 thread for my banjo-bolts from a hydraulics shop, so hey, why not simply make M6 to M8x1.00 adapters on the lathe... (Yes, I know M6 banjo-bolts exist, but I live in a relatively small town in Austria and even though we have three hydraulics shops, none of them stock such bolts...)



Once that was done, it was on the almost easy part, of measure, cut and thread in order to respace the carbs and alter the throttle-shaft to make the carbs sit in their new spacing. Then tack them together with the TIG and see if we follow the golden machinist's rule: cut twice and still too short.





They do look the part, once fitted...



And sound like this, mind you this was with a bottom of the pants jetting and no sync or whatsoever.

youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6kHlUJqefc

All in all: approx 15 hrs of work with taking them apart and putting back together and a lot of work on small and finnicky stuff, which isn't shown in this post, but in more detail in the blog-post below. If you want to copy my general design, try to get 1/4" or M6 banjo bolts (depending on in which part of the world you live in) and you should get away WITHOUT a lathe. Milling down the carb bodies is unavoidable though.

For those interested: I will convert the second set I have in the same fashion and it will be available for sale soon. The same goes for the set of VM36s. Oh and if you think to yourself now: Nah, fella is just trying to shift his old junk: Not quite, the VM36s worked really, really decently, but with this being a sidecar, I am more into making power down low, so going to smaller 33mm carbs makes actual sense. So if you're into one of those sets (the VM36s are readily jetted, the second flatslide will come either with detailed instructions on which jets to buy or I can get them for you), drop me a PM. (I ship worldwide.)

Blog: http://greasygreg.blogspot.co.at/2018/04/the-xs-triple-sidecar-modifying.html
 

der_nanno

Faster!
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

The flatslides have been re-jetted a couple of times and I think I am starting to get close. Interestingly enough even though the carbs come from a two-stroke snowmobile, the needles and needle jets are tiny, i.e. super lean. Which meant raising the needle 1.5 notches (they come from stock with a half-height washer to put over or under the clip) to get the mid-range about right.

With that being said, next thing to do in order to get the performance in the right direction is to fit the shorter geared final-drive from an XS1100, (7 percent shorter) as I run top speed (125kph at the moment) in 4th and not 5th gear. If that top speed sounds a little low, please bear in mind that I have roughly three times the frontal area of a stock bike.

So if anybody has some experience with installing the shorter XS1100 final drive in the XS-triple, please let me know. I know that the UJ of a XS11 is lubed differently so some first hand experience would be nice.
 

der_nanno

Faster!
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

Thx! I knew I had read up on this mod somewhere, some time ages ago. Bookmarked now. Those 7 percent should really do the trick, to get the old girl back into the powerband in 5th.

Managed to do that by accident on a back road this morning and I don't even remotely dare to say just HOW FAST things went. Let's put it this way, I have little doubts now, that the old girl could break the ton (mph not kph), if geared right.

My goal is to be able to do 130-140kph in 5th gear on level ground, because that would mean I can (always) use the Autobahn in a sensible fashion and cover long distances, if needs must.
 

datadavid

New Member
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

der_nanno said:
Thx! I knew I had read up on this mod somewhere, some time ages ago. Bookmarked now. Those 7 percent should really do the trick, to get the old girl back into the powerband in 5th.

Managed to do that by accident on a back road this morning and I don't even remotely dare to say just HOW FAST things went. Let's put it this way, I have little doubts now, that the old girl could break the ton (mph not kph), if geared right.

My goal is to be able to do 130-140kph in 5th gear on level ground, because that would mean I can (always) use the Autobahn in a sensible fashion and cover long distances, if needs must.
Is the sidecar that heavy? My stock 750 did reach 160km/h quite easy.
 

der_nanno

Faster!
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

It's not so much the weight (which doesn't help either), but more the aerodynamic drag. Up to 80-90kph, I don't think the sidecar's notably slower than a solo, but you have to keep the frontal area in mind and the faster you go, the more of an issue this becomes. The thing is I am stuck at around 3000-3500rpm in 5th gear, once I exceed that, everything's golden.
 

der_nanno

Faster!
Re: XS Triple Sidecar

To be fair, the last time I worked on the old girl was approx. 4 months ago. Then I was left stranded twice with an empty battery, which led me to investigate into the cause of that mishap. Turns out, it wasn't the reg/rec-unit (well, now I have a spare), but actually the alternator being fried.
Contrary to my fears, it was actually dead simple to get a new alternator. Removing the old one was not.


Unlike on my other bikes, the alternator is not oil-cooled, so it should have been just a quick job of taking the cover off and that'll be it – I thought.


Unfortunately some numpty (me) had routed the alternator cables through what seemed like a suitable groove in the back of the engine cases. This meant that now the engine had to be lifted as I couldn't pull the cables with the plugs through.




And charging again: almost 14V at a bit over idle and stops nicely at 14.4V. On top of that, I was finally able to put my new toy (a clamp-on multimeter) to use. At mid rpm, the alternator pushes out around 6A, at max. rpm almost 10A. Sort of explains, why the old battery gassed out every now and then.



Ka-Boom!


Looks cool, eh? Trust me my neighbours love me. Unfortunately this was the first indicator of one of the coils packing in. Luckily about two years ago, some guy in Vienna parted out his XS850 and so along with an engine, I also bought various bits that I thought might come in handy down the line, e.g. coils, a spare CDI and various other this 'n' that's.


As I needed some time to work this niggle out, I turned my attention to another one of those problem areas. For some odd reason, the rear brake shaft tends to seize in the frame of those old XS-Triples. Mine was no exception and as such the only sensible solution was to fit a grease nipple. And as you can see in the picture below, even though I re-greased the shaft about a year ago and I was rather generous, mind you, it didn't prevent the build-up of rust.









Now the stock green tach and speedo are dead cool, but unfortunately at least on my old girl, the speedo had decided to call it a day and get stuck at the highest speed driven and then come back down to zero very, very slowly over the next few minutes. (Gives the phrase: "Looks fast, when parked" a completely new meaning...)

As I am not made from money, I didn't have a genuine XS850 speedo, but only an old XS400 unit from the old RatRacer XS400. Though this only had a provision for a single bulb to back-light it. So a second 13mmwas necessary. Now, if you're good at maths you'll notice, that there are actually three bulb-sized holes in the back. Let's just say I found out, that the hole on the left is cool 'n' all, but it's somewhat less likely that I do 200kph than the other end of the spectrum of the range.



So I had found' out about the dead coil and the bike fired up again, but based on my experiences with the 38mm flatslides and the fact that the old girl was running dead lean at low rpm, switched to running dead rich at mid range only to fall on its face again at max. rpm, I decided to take the air-jets (1.0mm) out and give the bike a test-run without them.


Whoops. The bike was a bit hard to start, but then rev'ed like mad and well... ran a tad lean. By now the pilots have been increased by 12.5 points, mains by 20 and the needle raised 1.5 notches (it uses a funky system of notches and shims to fine-tune the needle) and we're starting to get somewhere.

Give it another two-and-a-half hours, even larger pilots and mains (#40, #138, needle on the middle setting (no shims), mixture 3 turns out) and a bit more ignition advance and all of a sudden the old girl finally runs and idles like it should.


[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ATpLH_4A-o[/youtube]



And lastly while cleaning up the workshop I found some old breather hose I had originally bought for the Everyday TR1 and which was *just* long enough to relocate the breather to a spot where riding in bad weather will not allow water to get into the engine via the breather.


Full version (as usual) on the blog: https://greasygreg.blogspot.com/2018/11/the-xs-triple-sidecar-alternator-swap.html
 

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