Powder coat or paint a frame

[legendary_rider]

Guys, Eastwood makes a high heat filler that's specifically for powdercoating applications. All you'd have to do is sandblast the part down and put the high heat filler back in it. Also gives an opportunity to work out dents if you want. There are dent pulling kits available but probably easier and cheaper to take it to someone. The high heat stuff is called Lab Metal.

 

[JRK5892]

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread..

I am no expert but I know powder coating is the way but I was under the impression:

1) You cannot touch up scratches etc. to a powder coat with paint?

2) You cannot powdercoat a frame without covering over the VIN number a no no for me.

3) I cannot powdercoat over a filler or a zinc primer i.e. in the case of a fuel tank that has filler.

I have an original frame that is holding up well with only a few patches needing attention, surely just wire wheeling & attending to these parts with zinc primer, paint then lacquer is enough?


the above is not accurate infomation at all!
#1 yes you can touch it up, powder is still a paint, you touch it up just the same as you would paint... but the real benifit is YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO TOUCH UP! if it is chipping off the powder is not done right... even rock chips should not happen
#2 propperly laid powder is barely thicker than paint. you can easily EASILY see vin numbers under the powder hell 99% of modern bikes are all coated from factory and you can still see the vin no problem. on vintage bikes we will remove the tags on them then re rivit them on the bike if the customer wants... but you can EASILY see the vin
#3 you have primer made for powder... we use it all the time, for areas that require major attention we will braze or weld in that area to smooth it out or use metal lab, a filler made for powder coating.

i am sorry bud but all 3 points you made where not correct. As legendary_rider said they make high temp fillers and eastwoods product is just one of many... hell even JB weld will work for single coat powders

 

[JRK5892]

here are 2 frames we recently have done

 

[pandknz]

Q: How smooth does the frame need to be for the powder coat? should I treat it that same as if I was painting? I have made a few mods and have had to grind some areas, at this stage it has been flap disc'ed back but I will sand it prior to being stripped and powdered

What grit should I go down to? 400? is the powder forgiving with scratches?

As for filler, I will mig all the areas of concern and sand back so no filler will be in the frame!

 

[JRK5892]

any good coater will propperly prep the frame i know we spend hours making sure it is all perfect and plugged... we will chem dip the frame to remove the paint in a less agressive mannor, from there alum oxide media will provide a great surface to coat on... powder is a paint.. so if you have groves in the metal and paint would not cover it, powder will be about the same, it is a touch thicker but will not fill deeper scratches.

 

[koolio]

the above is not accurate infomation at all!

i am sorry bud but all 3 points you made where not correct.

Look I'm not trying to have an argument with you, my points were not statements but questions. I know powdercoating is better but its not as simple as slapping it on imo.

#1 yes you can touch it up, powder is still a paint, you touch it up just the same as you would paint... but the real benifit is YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO TOUCH UP! if it is chipping off the powder is not done right... even rock chips should not happen

Still not really addressing the question. Powder coat is not invulnerable and I have seen frames after 10 years with chips etc. I was under the impression that you cannot simply take a standard paint (assuming we do not all have the powder coating means at home) and touch it up, like you could a non-powder coat frame.

#2 propperly laid powder is barely thicker than paint. you can easily EASILY see vin numbers under the powder hell 99% of modern bikes are all coated from factory and you can still see the vin no problem. on vintage bikes we will remove the tags on them then re rivit them on the bike if the customer wants... but you can EASILY see the vin

This is wholly unacceptable in the UK, I doubt any authorities will accept a over powder coated vin. Surely there must be a better solution to this?

#3 you have primer made for powder... we use it all the time, for areas that require major attention we will braze or weld in that area to smooth it out or use metal lab, a filler made for powder coating.

If there is any previous rust, even if the surface looks clean the powder coat will not be happy for long and I've seen this happen 2 years down the line. I don't know of any zinc primer which would stop this which is suitable for powder coating.

As legendary_rider said they make high temp fillers and eastwoods product is just one of many... hell even JB weld will work for single coat powders

Music to my ears, anyone know of any high temp fillers in the UK? Doubt I'd want to do my filling with JB weld!

 

[JRK5892]

man i own a powder coating shop... we do powder coating for a living... www.thepowderpro.com I have coated well over 200 frames and i can not tell you how many parts in the past 6 years

#1, any auto touch up paint will work just fine...

#2, if it is unacceptable in the uk, how does BMW, Kawi, honda, yamaha, harley sell their bikes? all of they are coated over the stamped vin number... all of them... it DOES NOT fill that in... again on vintage bikes with the tag style vins (they also have stamped frames) we will remove the rivits and tag and then re install them

#3, rusted parts are completely blasted... yes we have a zinc primer IN POWDER for parts that are very very rusted... for example right now we are working on a 50's ducati, all the parts after being body worked have been zinc primer... dents where pulled, areas where re welded with new metal, metal lab filler was used, zinc primer, then base and clear... not bad for a 60 year old fender huh

this fender was color matched, primered in zinc, blocked, coated, then wet sanded and buffed

primer can also be shot thicker on parts and used to block out parts such as my primary on my bike

grinded and sanded (yes what you see there is even a glide coat just like you do on paint)

primer

done

 

[legendary_rider]

Dude that's awesome. You put my coating to shame.

Are you sure he doesn't mean how to powdercoat without screwing up the VIN plate? If that's the case bro you just drill out those little "pins" and take the plate off before blasting or powdering it. I didn't know that at the time and the sandblaster wrecked mine. Wish I knew to remove it.

As for the actual VIN number stamped into the frame, no one really gives a shit about covering that cause it shows up under the paint very well so no worries.

The stamped VIN should be underneath the VIN plate.

 

[koolio]

man i own a powder coating shop... we do powder coating for a living... www.thepowderpro.com I have coated well over 200 frames and i can not tell you how many parts in the past 6 years.

I did kind of guess this from the photos.

#1, any auto touch up paint will work just fine...

Brilliant, can I clean a rusty area, zinc prime it then paint it? Will this hold up at all?

#2, if it is unacceptable in the uk, how does BMW, Kawi, honda, yamaha, harley sell their bikes? all of they are coated over the stamped vin number... all of them... it DOES NOT fill that in... again on vintage bikes with the tag style vins (they also have stamped frames) we will remove the rivits and tag and then re install them

I've never seen any bikes that didn't have vin plate tags (the newest bike I've owned was a 1995 bike), I know people who have had trouble when they've coated their vin tags. Also from reading another thread apparently the rivits have to be put back in a certain way or they can also be picked up by the police (this is over here in the UK).

#3, rusted parts are completely blasted... yes we have a zinc primer IN POWDER for parts that are very very rusted... for example right now we are working on a 50's ducati, all the parts after being body worked have been zinc primer... dents where pulled, areas where re welded with new metal, metal lab filler was used, zinc primer, then base and clear... not bad for a 60 year old fender huh

Thats sounds great, exactly what I'd be looking for, if I lived in the states or you in the UK I would be getting in touch with you right now!

 

[legendary_rider]

Yeah you just take the plate off then put it back on when after powder coating. Not sure how anal they are in the UK but it really shouldn't be an issue. This is WAY too overthought.

 

[koolio]

Yeah you just take the plate off then put it back on when after powder coating. Not sure how anal they are in the UK but it really shouldn't be an issue. This is WAY too overthought.

I've read about someone having their frame scrapped because they reattached their vin and the rivits did not appear to be correctly installed (don't know how) the police confiscated the frame and scrapped it. It was on a UK forum will try and find you the link.

On a completely different note, I have an area smaller than this to fill on my tank, what is the silvery thing you've used to fill that hole?

primer can also be shot thicker on parts and used to block out parts such as my primary on my bike

grinded and sanded (yes what you see there is even a glide coat just like you do on paint)

 

[JRK5892]

it is alum... we cut it, welded it, and grinded it smooth

 

[pandknz]

JRK5892 those scratchs in the cover, are they ready for media blast then powder? my frame has similar scratches from the mods I have done and I have just used a 80 grit flap disc at this stage, is that ok for the final sand or should I grab some 400 and clean it up?

 

[JRK5892]

that is from a 220 block, it was then blasted, primed, reblocked, and coated

 

[JRK5892]

light scratches like that will typically blast out no problem

 

[pandknz]

light scratches like that will typically blast out no problem

So should I just sand it back with 220? then send it to the powdercoaters to be blasted and coated?

 

[koolio]

it is alum... we cut it, welded it, and grinded it smooth

Thats looks like a great job. Shame for me you are not in the UK.

 

[JRK5892]

we have stuff shipped to us from Germany and Greece for coating work on a pretty regular basis... hahaha

pandknz, if you look you will see the black on there, that is glide coat... i would sugest if your scuffs are really that deep that you glide coat it and sand it out... either that or find a coater with a good rep... we would handle stuff like that for our customers so that we do all the prep so it is done right for the best possible finish

 

[Green199]

I've read about someone having their frame scrapped because they reattached their vin and the rivits did not appear to be correctly installed (don't know how) the police confiscated the frame and scrapped it. It was on a UK forum will try and find you the link.

Do you have the link to that? I would like to read through it.
I have no idea how a 'faulty' rivet could write off a frame. Am I correct in thinking that the VIN tags are just pop rivetted on? Surely there's no way to incorrectly install a pop rivet.

 

[legendary_rider]

That still doesn't sound right to me. Those vin plates are SOOO easy to damage. Also what about when you get a new VIN on a rebuild class. They must be able to issue you a new VIN or a replacement VIN plate with same number. I'm taking this with a grain of salt.