Registering a bike that you do not have the ownership papers for in Ontario

Spiider

New Member
Update...I wrote my affidavits, got my lawyer to notarize them. Went to the Honda dealer and got a handwritten letter confirming the serial numbers and year of manufacture.

Took all this as a package to the MTO...the process took about an hour and she had to call in 3x to get them to answer questions she had.

I walked out with new ownerships for all three of my frames! All stating the correct year of manufacture etc.

So, it can be done in Ontario! It really was just time and a lot of running around.
 

Tim

Administrator
Staff member
Who was she calling? Head office? The mother-ship? When I did it years ago it was a 5 minute thing, and no dealer-letters. Just an affidavit.

Sometimes I think it's easier to just pull the UVIP and write up a bill of sale from the last registered owner. Scribble on it and off you go.
 

DrJ

Over 1,000 Posts
Tim said:
Sometimes I think it's easier to just pull the UVIP and write up a bill of sale from the last registered owner. Scribble on it and off you go.

I've done that and it works great. But we're talking about bikes with no UVIP, absolutely no history of being in the MTO system and creating new ownerships. That's when you need the dealership letters of confirmation.
 

HOOLIGAN

Been Around the Block
Tim said:
Sometimes I think it's easier to just pull the UVIP and write up a bill of sale from the last registered owner. Scribble on it and off you go.

Have a bike that was abandoned at a garage and sold to another mechanic. I then bought it off the 2nd mechanic. Don't have the ownership but have the UVIP and bill of sale. Does not having the ownership raise any flags?
 

BriMed1983

Been Around the Block
No, not so much with these older bikes.

Your first move is to go to the MTO with your VIN # and pay for the sellers/buyers package (which you need anyway, it is like $10 I think) this will show the last registered owner, if the bike had any liens against the title or if it was reported stolen. Once you have that you can "contact the last registered owner for a bill of sale" ;)
 

rustyrazor

New Member
I just got an ownership for my 71 cb450. Thank you everyone for all of the information!

Here's what happened:

Before reading this post I went into one of our local service Ontario offices (we'll call them the ignoramuses) to see if I could get an ownership. All I had was an old used vehicle information package (UVIP).

I simply asked how I could get an ownership for my bike, thinking that they would be helpful. The ignoramuses told me that I had to get the ownership from the guy I bought it off. I told them that he had the bike for parts and never had the ownership in his name. They said it didn't matter.

I said that he bought it off another guy as a parts bike and that the other guy didn't have the ownership in his name either. Eventually the ignoramouses came out with this idiotic statement "Everyone who ever owned the bike has to change the ownership into their name and transfer it to the next person and they all have to pay their taxes."

I said "That's not going to happen they had the bike for parts so why would they change the ownership? And they're not going to agree to change the ownership into their names." I can't remember what the guy said at this point since I was too angry.

I asked what would happen if the bike was abandoned and the one guy said that I'd have to go before a judge to get an ownership if that was the case (not true at all). Anyway I'm never going back to that office.

In general they were rude and made me feel like I was some sort of criminal. This isn't the first horrible experience I've had with the ignoramuses.

Then I read this thread of posts and my hope came back. Luckily there's another newer service Ontario office in my town. So I used the Affidavit that's attached to the first post and filled it in with my information. I took it and the same old UVIP to the other office.

This time I told them that I was "building a vintage motorcycle from parts and wanted to register it". The lady said that she would have to call her "hot line" and she told someone on the phone what the situation was and read the affidavit that I had prepared to the person on the phone. She also pulled out an affidavit form from in her desk somewhere so I don't even think mine was necessary. She compared them and said that mine was better.

She said I could register the bike as unfit and unplated so that all I have to do is come back once I get the certification. It cost $10 to make a new ownership under the name of the last person identified in the UVIP and $10 to transfer the ownership to my name then $26 taxes on the $200 I paid for the bike. I signed a few forms and I was handed an ownership.
 

DrJ

Over 1,000 Posts
I can't stress enough not all MTOs are equal and not all employees within the same MTO are equal. Once you find a good one, stick with it.
 

Ogoki

New Member
Hey guys,

I'm about to fill out the posted affidavit and take it to a lawyer, but I have a few questions.

I assume that both signatures - mine and the lawyer's - are present on this form? Mine goes on the underlined section right above "John Smith" (my name). And then "A Commissioner Etc." becomes the lawyer's name, typed? Should another underlined section be inserted to the right or below "A Commissioner Etc." for his/her signature?

Sorry to be neurotic - I just want to get this right before printing it and taking it in.

Thanks for any info.
 

Barkingmadspeedshop

Sell the many to fund the few
In BC using ICBC it can be a pain in the ass given that no one actually knows what to do. You can read the handy how to sheet thing that is around but currently there are 3 versions of it and they are all a bit different. I have registered several bikes with out paperwork with out issue. I currently have a bike with out papers that has never been registered. So I go get a notorised letter stating this and bring it in to an insurance agent. Now this part is key you have to get an insurance agent that knows their stuff or its a cluster fuck. The usual guy I work with is on vacation so I go give it a shot at the one close to my house. I walk in bring my paperwork and explain what I want done to the guy across the counter. He calls ICBC to get it done and its no problem. Here is about where it goes to shit. He starts doing the paperwork and explains that he will get someone else to finish it up for me. I figure not a problem its already started well I was wrong. The lady that takes over states that she is not comfortable with how the paper work is going so she calls ICBC to check on what needs to be done. She gets an agent on the phone that says the guy was right she disagrees and asks for another agent gets the same answer and goes to another agent then finally she says I shit you not " I have a guy here that wants to regster a bike and he has no paperwork and I am not comfortable with it, I know that he has everything but its 10mins to closing and this will take a while so...". Then she hangs up and tells me that she will be reporting me and the bike to ICBC so that I wont be able to register it unless I send a letter to ICBC have the Vin run have it inspected and so on. At this point I decide to make her aware that she is now off my Christmas list and leave. I get ahold of another firend that checks out what she threatened to do and yup she flagged the Vin on the bike so now I have to jump through hoops and get it done. Currently I am about half way through the shit show and also dont need to get the bike inspected before its registered.
 

eklimek

New Member
This thread was very helpful. I bought a storage locker motorcycle sold under the Storage locker leins act with a bill of sale but without title. Minor wording alterations to the template resulted and some effort were succesful. Thanks.
 

patrickxvx

Chiller than most.
Hey Everyone,

This weekend I am hopefully going to pick up a 1980 cb 400t. However, the guy I'm purchasing it off of does not have the ownership for it. The VIN # is there and there are ON plates on it with a sticker from 1989. I am just trying to figure out what the best way of approaching this would be. (I also have no idea where or how he acquired it.)

Thanks!
 

Givernewt

This space for rent
Patrick, the information you need is already present here in the thread but to save you time: Take you VIN# to an MTO and pay 20$ for the UVIP ( used vehicle information package)

Since the bike in question was used as recently as 22ish years ago theres a decent chance your VIN will actually be in the system, and you won't run into any problems. If any at MTO ask why you want the UVIP just say you are looking at buying the bike and covering all your bases.

Gently open the UVIP and look for the most recent owner of record, hopefully it's someone that is still alive , and even better living in the area. Feel free to use things like google and canada411 to find contact information on last owner. I have called probably 4 or 5 people like this in the last 10 years and without fail they are haven been very helpful, not rude, and generally happy to write out a bill of sale for you. Also feel free to offer a timmies or something for their time. A bill of sale can be used at MTO to get an ownership and go from there.

Method 2: a bit shady, but if the UVIP shows the bike's not hot, and you can't easily reach the owner for some reason ( the internets down, he's dead, he's been deported, he moved to alabama) then feel free to write your own bill of sale and scribble a autograph or have a friend do one. NOTE: autograph SHOULD be same name as on UVIP as most recent owner.
 

Oil Cooker Designs

Active Member
I'm sure the rules are a little different in Alberta then in Ontario but this might work there as it does here. In Alberta you need to have insurance before you can register vehicles. Then after you register you can get plates from the registry.
Sometimes the stuff I buy isn't ready for the road but I still want them in my name, for theft reasons.
Here you need insurance to register.
NOT ANYMORE!!!
I go into the same registries office and register my vehicles as PERSONAL PROPERTY not as a motor vehicle, there is a big difference legally. I paid 26 bucks to register an 81 f150 for a year. On the renewal forms there is a check box to register your property for INFINITY for a cost of $400 (weird right). I will find the papers and post them.

Once your vehicle is in your name you can switch it over to the motor vehicle registry list.. The other list is the Personal Property Registry. I will find the papers..
 

Sphinx536

New Member
Going through this process with a 71 cb350 no ownership no uvip available, got the affidavit (thanks!) a bill of sale and the letter from the Honda dealership.. but they are also saying I need an appraisal? It's clearly listed on the bill of sale I paid $250 isn't that enough, shouldnt i pay taxes on that??
 

DrJ

Over 1,000 Posts
The appraisal request is hit and miss, not all MTO offices require one. It's inconsistent. Are you in Toronto?
 

Tim

Administrator
Staff member
Definitely go to a different location. Where in Ontario roughly are you? I've never been asked for an appraisal. CB750 (no ownership), CB500, CB550, R75/6, SR500, CA95 - not one appraisal.
 

Sphinx536

New Member
Hey Tim, like I said I'm in Hamilton I've been around to a couple MTO offices, some straight up said no the bike doesn't exist so they can't give me an ownership, some have said get all these documents then we'll talk. Should I shop around Hamilton or drive a bit to smaller MTO offices
 

Tim

Administrator
Staff member
Ha not sure how I missed the Hamilton part of your post.

Maybe they're being more strict. I'd try a more rural one.
 

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