Texas Two Step Taco

Ok, I’m gonna very optimistically say I’m understanding a tad better than half. But I’m full on board with my ignorance being completely fascinated.
Guys, can I send y’all some spark plugs? You need Loctite? Maybe some 2T oil?
I’d send some Bourbon but I don’t want to corrupt Zeke :p

Moonshine! One of our all time favorite memories with you my friend!


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I agree. The risk of distortion even from small tacks is high. They do make a bearing seating Locktite.
Ordered!
Loctite 680, Very High Strength Fast Cure Retaining Compound is a high strength, high viscosity room temperature curing adhesive used to join fitted cylindrical parts. It fixtures in 10 minutes and provides a shear strength of 4,000 psi. Capable of filling diametral gaps up to 0.015 in. (0.38 mm).


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We took muriatic acid to clean the Aluminium/ Aluminum from the Bultaco bore. Bill said he has never seen it like this before! Go big or go home!


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Ordered a Piston off of Amazon but the one they sent me had a 22 mm wristpin no the 20mm. We would need to make a spacer if we used this piston. This was for a Yamaha gp1200
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Doug thinks it was our ring end gap and that bigger bores require bigger gap. According to my notes we used .014” and according to Wiseco it should be 0.0186” for the top for the top ring 0.0203” for the second for the second ring.

Don’t know if this Wiseco chart should be used for two strokes. Trying to find out what happened.
Any comments would be appreciated.



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Finding an aftermarket piston with correct dimensions is always a bit of a crap shoot. Looking at the amount of metal on that barrel pretty much confirms that the piston grew too big for the bore and of course it stuck.

For sure, ring end gap should be bigger on a larger bore. On 4 strokes they say 4 thou per inch on the top and 5 thou on lower. On high performance motors they say 6-7 thou. That would be in the 20- 23thousandths range. But That's unlikely to have been the issue. How much piston to bore clearance did you have to start with and what did the manufacturer recommend ad was that for a water cooled or air cooled motor.

Forged aluminum pistons typically expand more than cast pistons because of the material used and air cooled motors are less temperature stable than water cooled, but the worst possible combination is a forged piston in a cast iron barrel which will not expand as much as the piston. The coefficient of expansion of cast iron is less than half the coefficient of Aluminum. Add to that the fact that the temperature rise in the piston will be much faster than the barrel and it's easy to see why a piston can outgrow its home.

By comparison, an H2 has steel liners but an aluminum cylinder. Remember the old drag race Harleys years ago with all the fins basically removed from the barrels. That is for two reasons. Firstly to remove the "girdle" and allow the barrel to expand and also to reduce heat transfer to the air. They need those barrels to get hot and expand as fast as possible.

Aluminum expands at roughly .000023" per inch of bore per degree F of temperature rise, and cast iron grows by around .000008" per inch per degree. Choose your own temperature differential and it's easy to see why pistons stick.

Interestingly we expect to see a "four corners" seizure when a piston gets hot too fast, but if the guy operating the throttle doesn't know when it's seizing, the temperature will continue to rise as the piston smears itself all over the bore.

So that leaves the question of whether there was enough clearance for a perfectly running motor and did it run too hot, or was there insufficient cold clearance, or should the motor have been warmer before it was subjected to a load - or All of the above?

That is today's existential question.
 
And BB may have Nicasil lined bores without a liner, so even less of a temperature gradient to deal with.
 
Finding an aftermarket piston with correct dimensions is always a bit of a crap shoot. Looking at the amount of metal on that barrel pretty much confirms that the piston grew too big for the bore and of course it stuck.

For sure, ring end gap should be bigger on a larger bore. On 4 strokes they say 4 thou per inch on the top and 5 thou on lower. On high performance motors they say 6-7 thou. That would be in the 20- 23thousandths range. But That's unlikely to have been the issue. How much piston to bore clearance did you have to start with and what did the manufacturer recommend ad was that for a water cooled or air cooled motor.

Forged aluminum pistons typically expand more than cast pistons because of the material used and air cooled motors are less temperature stable than water cooled, but the worst possible combination is a forged piston in a cast iron barrel which will not expand as much as the piston. The coefficient of expansion of cast iron is less than half the coefficient of Aluminum. Add to that the fact that the temperature rise in the piston will be much faster than the barrel and it's easy to see why a piston can outgrow its home.

By comparison, an H2 has steel liners but an aluminum cylinder. Remember the old drag race Harleys years ago with all the fins basically removed from the barrels. That is for two reasons. Firstly to remove the "girdle" and allow the barrel to expand and also to reduce heat transfer to the air. They need those barrels to get hot and expand as fast as possible.

Aluminum expands at roughly .000023" per inch of bore per degree F of temperature rise, and cast iron grows by around .000008" per inch per degree. Choose your own temperature differential and it's easy to see why pistons stick.

Interestingly we expect to see a "four corners" seizure when a piston gets hot too fast, but if the guy operating the throttle doesn't know when it's seizing, the temperature will continue to rise as the piston smears itself all over the bore.

So that leaves the question of whether there was enough clearance for a perfectly running motor and did it run too hot, or was there insufficient cold clearance, or should the motor have been warmer before it was subjected to a load - or All of the above?

That is today's existential question.

That is a way better existential question than what my wife asked me. She wanted to know if I thought we would recognize each other if we didn’t have bodies lol!!!!


Zeke stuck the old piston on two different occasions trying to keep up with us on bigger bikes on a Sunday morning. We then stuck the same piston twice on the Dyno before the rebuild and then this time. I bet I know the reason the TSS became watercooled.

We did not check piston to wall clearance because we made an assumption but I will this weekend.

Wiseco tech support said the Pro light piston to wall clearance is .0035” piston to wall and the ring end gap should be .014” but we know this to be an existential fallacy.


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I would speculate that those gaps/tolerances are for a water cooled nickle plated bore in a motor that is brought up to temperature and not for an ancient air cooled motor that is thrashed mercilessly on a dyno.....;):eek:
 
I would speculate that those gaps/tolerances are for a water cooled nickle plated bore in a motor that is brought up to temperature and not for an ancient air cooled motor that is thrashed mercilessly on a dyno.....;):eek:
True. I don’t think anybody considered what you brought up about “the worst combination is a forged piston in a cast cylinder.” I shared with Bill what you said and he said, “I didn’t know that.” My bike is from the 60’s and his is from the 22 century. The good news is we are having fun and Zeke is growing more cocky. Really appreciate y’all being part of team treachery and old age!

I am very happy to be learning this lesson on the dyno and not on the asphalt. ;)






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If it rattles when you build it, it should stop the rattle when you run it... Loosely translated, add a little clearance
 
Not that I know of. Tell me more.

So BB is telling me a story about an RD350 drag bike that he bid on and he was outbid by some guy in Ohio by 100 bucks on eBay. I went to my pictures and showed him a RD350 drag bike and he said, “yea that is the bike it use to belong to Alvin.” I said, “I think Teazer was the guy who outbid you.”


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